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The Rejected Sessions


mgraham333

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I was playing One For Five the other day, first on Rouse's Bossa Nova Bacchanal, then on The Lost Sessions Connoisseur. I enjoy this track and would love to hear the rest of the session. Maybe it's time for another Lost Sessions volume or maybe even The Rejected Sessions .

The Rouse session and the "Trainwreck" would probably be at the top of the list...but what else?

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I'll say this to the day I die: I want to hear the Gene Harris/Grant Green session, even though Gene was on organ instead of piano. If there were other Gene Harris - Ike Quebec tracks from the session that saw a tune on the Lost Sessions CD, I'd like to hear those, too.

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Various rejected organ sessions/tracks were on that other list, but if we look at non-organ sessions, there is even more. Here are the more notorious ones:

Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers

Lee Morgan (tp) Hank Mobley (ts) Bobby Timmons (p) Jymie Merritt (b) Art Blakey (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Hackensack, NJ, March 8, 1959

tk.5 Jimerick Blue Note rejected

tk.10 Quick Trick -

tk.14 Hipsippy Blues -

tk.15 M And M -

tk.19 Close Your Eyes -

tk.21 Just Foolin' -

[This session is not that bad according to those who have heard it]

Grant Green Quartet

Wynton Kelly (p) Grant Green (g) Paul Chambers (b) Philly Joe Jones (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, November 26, 1960

A Night In Tunisia rejected

Jordu -

[Cuscuna first said that this was a bad day for all involved, but then changed his mind and said that the rhythm section was cooking and Green just a bit nervous. Most of the tracks made it to the “"First Session" CD, but these two were left in the can]

Kenny Dorham Sextet

Kenny Dorham (tp) Charles Davis (bars) Kenny Drew (p) Grant Green (g) Wilbur Ware (b) Kai ??? (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, March 19, 1961

tk.9 Mason Dixon Line Blue Note rejected

tk.20 Blues Lament -

tk.24 Cross "D" Tracks -

tk.26 Blue Ching -

tk.27 Spadesville -

tk.31 9 1/2 Street -

[Grant Green is good on this one, some others less so, according to those who have heard it. There have even been fake covers posted for this session. It looks great on paper.]

Fred Jackson Quintet

Fred Jackson (ts, cowbell) "Big" John Patton (p) Grant Green (g) Herbie Lewis (b) Ben Dixon (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, June 21, 1962

tk.5 'T Ain't No Big Thing rejected

Peace Pipe -

Jacksonville -

[one track from this session with Patton on piano eventually made it to the "Lost Sessions" Connoisseur]

Horace Silver Tentet

Kenny Dorham, Blue Mitchell (tp) Grachan Moncur III (tb) Julius Watkins (frh) Junior Cook, Jimmy Heath (ts) Charles Davis (bars) Horace Silver (p) Gene Taylor (b) Roy Brooks (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, April 11, 1963

Silver's Serenade Blue Note rejected

Sweet Sweetie Dee -

Nineteen Bars -

Next Time I Fall In Love -

Horace Silver Tentet

same personnel

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, April 12, 1963

The Dragon Lady Blue Note rejected

Let's Go To The Nitty Gritty -

Nineteen Bars -

[The lost Horace Silver tentet album.]

Grant Green Sextet

John Gilmore (ts) Bobby Hutcherson (vib) Duke Pearson (p) Grant Green (g) Butch Warren (b) Billy Higgins (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, February 12, 1964

1299 Untitled Grant Green Tune, No. 3 Blue Note rejected

1300 Minor League -

1301 Grant's Tune -

1302 Un Poco Loco -

1303 Ezz-Thetic -

[some of the tunes were rerecorded four months later for the “Solid” album (which also wasn't released at the time), but with completely different sidemen. This session is particularly noteworthy for the presence of John Gilmore.]

Horace Silver Quintet

Carmell Jones (tp) Joe Henderson (ts) Horace Silver (p) Teddy Smith (b) Roger Humphries (d)

"Pep's", Philadelphia, PA, August 15, 1964

1413 The Natives Are Restless Tonight Blue Note rejected

1414 Que Pasa -

1415 Pretty Eyes -

1416 The Kicker -

tk.1 I'll Remember April -

tk.2 The Kicker -

tk.3 Pretty Eyes -

tk.4 Que Pasa -

tk.5 Skinny Minnie -

tk.6 Mexican Hip Dance -

tk.7 The Natives Are Restless Tonight -

tk.8 Que Pasa -

tk.9 The Kicker -

tk.10 Mexican Hip Dance -

tk.11 The Natives Are Restless Tonight -

tk.12 Skinny Minnie -

tk.13 Pretty Eyes -

tk.14 Que Pasa -

tk.15 Mexican Hip Dance -

tk.16 The Kicker -

tk.17 Pretty Eyes -

tk.18 The Natives Are Restless Tonight -

tk.19 Que Pasa -

tk.20 The Kicker -

tk.21 The Natives Are Restless Tonight -

tk.22 Que Pasa -

tk.23 The Kicker -

[Cuscuna gave the tapes to Horace and who knows what happened to them. How could this all be bad?]

Charlie Rouse Quintet

Charlie Rouse (ts) Joe Zawinul (p) Grant Green (g) Sam Jones (b) Frankie Dunlop (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, April 17, 1963

tk.4 Clo-E Blue Note rejected

tk.13 Little Sherri -

tk.17 What Kind Of Fool Am I? -

tk.24 I Left My Hart In San Francisco -

Charlie Rouse Quintet

Freddie Hubbard (tp) Charlie Rouse (ts) McCoy Tyner (p) Bob Cranshaw (b) Billy Higgins (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, January 22, 1965

1506 tk.9 Little Sherri rejected

Untitled Original -

Untitled Minor Blues -

1507 I'm Glad There Is You -

[Charlie Rouse had two rejected sessions and “Little Sherri” was played on both. The latter version is from the same session that yielded One For Five, and according to Cuscuna it has a bad trumpet solo. If that is the only problem, it could have been edited and released as a perfectly fine Rouse track, and maybe the others too.]

Herbie Hancock Nonet

Melvin Lastie (cor) Julian Priester (tb) Stanley Turrentine (ts) Pepper Adams (bars) Herbie Hancock (p) Billy Butler, Eric Gale (g) Bob Cranshaw (b) Bernard Purdie (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, July 19, 1966

1770 tk.12 Untitled Ballad rejected

1771 tk.14 Untitled Blues -

1772 tk.15 Soul Villa -

1773 tk.17 Untitled Blues, No. 2 -

1774 tk.21 Don't Even Go There Blue Note CDP 7243 4 95569-2

1775 tk.26 You Know What To Do rejected

* Herbie Hancock - The Complete Blue Note Sixties Sessions (Blue Note CDP 7243 4 95569-2)

[one track eventually released on the BN box; what about the rest?]

Jackie McLean Sextet

Woody Shaw (tp) Jackie McLean (as) Tyrone Washington (ts) Bobby Hutcherson (vib) Scott Holt (b) Norman Connors (d)

Plaza Sound Studios, NYC, July 5, 1968

3054 In Case You Haven't Heard Blue Note rejected

3055 Hymn To Rap -

3056 One For Jeru -

3057 Kupenda -

3058 Abrasion -

[McLean’s last Blue Note album and not released because he didn’t like the drummer. If that’s the only problem, this could probably be released.]

Tyrone Washington Quartet

Tyrone Washington (ts) Herbie Hancock (p) Herbie Lewis (b) Jack DeJohnette (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, August 16, 1968

3085 tk.2 or tk.4 Untitled (medium tempo) Blue Note rejected

3086 tk.6 or tk.8 Untitled (3/4) -

3087 tk.9 or tk.10 Rene -

3088 tk.11 or tk.12 T -

3089 tk.14 or tk.15 Untitled (9/4) -

[The most famous of them all, the “Train Wreck”! According to Belden or Evered (I forget who) this is not so bad, and at least some of it could be released. That points to one of the problems with these sessions; they are usually listed as rejected because Cuscuna thinks so. Someone else could (and have) come to a different conclusion.]

Lee Morgan Quintet

Lee Morgan (tp) Frank Mitchell (ts) Harold Mabern (p) Mickey Bass (b) Billy Higgins (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, September 13, 1968

4007 tk.4 Blues For Mr. Tatum rejected

4008 tk.8 The Sleepwalker -

4009 tk.11 Mickey's Tune Blue Note CDP 7243 5 22467-2

4010 tk.16 The Chief rejected

4011 tk.21 Leebop Blue Note CDP 7243 5 22467-2

4012 tk.29 Extemporaneous -

* Lee Morgan - The Sixth Sense (Blue Note CDP 7243 5 22467-2)

[Cuscuna first said that this session should be burned, then he released half of it as bonus tracks to “The Sixth Sense”. According to those who have heard the other tracks, they are not noticeably worse.]

Grant Green Sextet

Claude Bartee (ts) Willie Bivens (vib) Clarence Palmer (el-p -1/4,6,7) Earl Neal Creque (el-p -5) Grant Green (g) Jimmy Lewis (el-b) Leo Morris (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, October 3, 1969

6. tk.26 or 27 Wichita Lineman unissued

7. 5250 tk.30 By The Time I Get To Phoenix -

[From the “Carryin’ On” session. I mention this because when “Alive” was first released on CD it didn’t have any bonus tracks. Then it was rereleased on CD with three bonus tracks. Apparently the producer missed them the first time, and since "Carryin' On" was released in the same series, it could be the same with these two extra tracks.]

Wayne Shorter Quintet

Wayne Shorter (ts) Barbara Burton (vib, bells, per) McCoy Tyner (p) Miroslav Vitous (b) Alphonse Mouzon (d, per)

A&R Studios, NYC, October 13, 1970

tk.3 Pt. 1: The Creation Blue Note rejected

tk.4 Pt. 2: B. Because -

tk.5 Pt. 3: Cee -

tk.7 Pt. 4: Dee -

tk.8 Pt. 5: Effe -

[This is also not so bad according to Belden or Evered]

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Have the tapes for the Silver tentet ever been located?

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the tapes are lost, just that the intended and recorded Tentet album never was released nor redone. Silver later rerecorded most of the tracks with his regular quintet and released the results as Silver's Serenade. I can't remember anyone saying anything particular about how the tentet tracks sound, but my guess would be that the ensembles didn't gel to Silver's satisfaction.

There are however some tapes that really are lost, or at least not located yet.

One such case is this:

Grant Green Quintet

Claude Bartee (ts) Emmanuel Riggins (org) Grant Green (g) Herbie Lewis (b) Idris Muhammad (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, May 29, 1970

6478 I Can't Leave Your Love Alone Blue Note unissued

6479 Let Yourself Go -

6480 Love On A Two-Way Street -

6481 Green Acid -

6482 Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head -

6483 Something -

6484 Let It Rain -

Another is the many unissued tracks from Stanley Turrentine's Minton's recordings with Grant Green. Cuscuna could only find the issued tracks; otherwise we would also have had this:

Stanley Turrentine Quintet

Stanley Turrentine (ts) Horace Parlan (p) Grant Green (g) George Tucker (b) Al Harewood (d)

"Minton's Playhouse", NYC, February 23, 1961

tk.1 The Serpent's Tooth Blue Note unissued

tk.2 By Myself -

tk.3 Blues -

tk.5 In Your Own Sweet Way -

tk.12 Squeeze Me -

tk.13 Blues -

tk.14 Just In Time -

tk.16 This Can't Be Love -

tk.17 Softly, As In A Morning Sunrise -

tk.18 I'll Remember April -

The non-released tracks from Jimmy Smith's Baby Grand recordings are supposedly missing too.

I didn't post anything with The Three Sounds above and the reason is that there is an awful lot of unissued/rejected stuff by them. To take just one example, even though Live At The Lighthouse was reissued on CD with 8 bonus tracks, there could easily be a Volume 2:

The Three Sounds

Gene Harris (p) Andrew Simpkins (b) Donald Bailey (d) Dick Bock (prod)

"Lighthouse Club", Hermosa Beach, CA, June 9 & 10, 1967

Sylvie unissued

Like Someone In Love -

Georgia On My Mind -

Goin' Out Of My Head -

Yesterday -

The Shadow Of Your Smile -

Stella By Starlight -

Bluesette -

Makin' Whoopee -

Cute -

Sherry -

It Was A Very Good Year -

Li'l Darlin' -

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Yeah, ignore what the "artist" wants.

I was told the problem was obvious on the first tune and they only did one take of each composition and went home.

If the problem was so obvious why did they even continue? I guess Alfred didn't blow up the way he supposedly did during the Dex-Stitt session.

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Yeah, ignore what the "artist" wants.

I was told the problem was obvious on the first tune and they only did one take of each composition and went home.

If the problem was so obvious why did they even continue? I guess Alfred didn't blow up the way he supposedly did during the Dex-Stitt session.

Lion was gone by then.

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Who can we lobby to get that McLean date released? Not familiar with Connors or whether he's a good drummer, but I think I would be listening more intently to Shaw/McLean/Moncur and Washington!

He's a fine drummer with Pharoah and Shepp, but I could see how his approach might not have the specifics about what Jackie would have wanted.

Jackie was very much concerned with the history of the music being present as part of the path to moving forward. If that wasn't clearly happening from a chosen musician, well then, what's the point?

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Here's what little is known around these parts (at least first-hand) about the Tyrone and Wayne dates. (I posted this previously in a thread about Tyrone.)

Here's more info about the 'trainwreck' than probably any one here has ever seen (or heard). (Weiss also talked about an unreleased Wayne Shorter BN sessiontoo.) The quote (below) comes from this thread on AAJ, but I thought I'd preserve it here too, since threads can occasionally be deleted, posts edited, etc...

Discussing the unreleased Blue Note stuff is a bit tricky. I've been lucky enough to hear a lot of stuff but I don't exactly know what the etiquette is about sharing it with others. I'll mention a few but I don't want to create a shit storm but it seems that not many are reading this thread so I'll take a chance.

OK, the Tyrone Washington trainwreck date is not so bad. It is kind of out there though there are tunes, some interesting ones in fact. Herbie Hancock plays great on it and is very experimental at times. Tyrone sounds most like Sam Rivers to me on this date and the date has elements of a Sam Rivers date or perhaps a little Andrew Hill with Chick Corea (with Bennie Maupin)"Is" thrown in. The real problem to me is it seems that Herbie Lewis and Jack DeJohnette never really hook up, especially on the medium tempo tunes. One tune is almost completetly free with a section of what can only be described as vocal "sounds" in a sort of deep you're a mean one Mr. Grinch voice. Stangely there is no vocal interlude on the second take, I guess that was a bit much for Alfred. There is some worthy stuff here but it couldn't be released on it's own. I guess you could put a few bonus tracks on Natural Essence but it's unlikely that that would ever be slated for release either. Oh well. What ever happened to Tyrone Washington? I've never heard anything. I did hear a story about him when he was with Horace Silver though. He took it kind of out (playing-wise I mean) on the gig with Horace once and Horace told him to play the blues. Tyrone responded that he thought he was. That was it for him in that band.

The unreleased Wayne also has it's moments. It's mostly improvised with a lot of percussion sections (mostly xylophone, Xennakis anyone?). McCoy definitely goes places I don't think he's gone before and as I said there are nice moments. Again I don't think there is enough for it to be released on it's own (if that is even an option) but my idea would be to include it a Mosaic Select with Super Nova, Moto Grosso Feio and Odyssey of Iska. But my ideas don't carry much weight. I've heard bits and pieces of Andrew Hill stuff (I think most of what I heard was what turned out to be the bonus tracks on Grass Roots) and it being Andrew Hill, I liked all I heard.

Edited by Rooster_Ties
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you don't know who norman connors is??? don't you like that sanders impulse! stuff? he played with sanders and sam rivers and lead some classic (but overrated) spiritual jazz late 60s kind of albums with hancock, etc. i thought you liked black unity a lot for some reason. isn't connors the drummer on that?

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Regardless of whether the music is 'releasable' or not, something that is never discussed is the actual compositions that are on the Shorter date. The BN discography gives only sketchy titles. It is not clear if these are written pieces or were improvised on the spot. Curiously, even people who have heard the session cannot seem to answer this question! I asked Mouzon - he didn't remember the date, but said that Wayne always brought music to the sessions. I tried to find out from Wayne when I put together the appendix to the bio, but I was not able to reach any definite conclusions in the short time-frame we had.

So, in addition to thinking of this as a 'lost' Shorter session, I also think of this as the five 'lost' Shorter compositions.

Bertrand.

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you don't know who norman connors is??? don't you like that sanders impulse! stuff? he played with sanders and sam rivers and lead some classic (but overrated) spiritual jazz late 60s kind of albums with hancock, etc. i thought you liked black unity a lot for some reason. isn't connors the drummer on that?

I like him just fine; I can't see him being in a Jackie McLean band, though.

Edited by clifford_thornton
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you don't know who norman connors is??? don't you like that sanders impulse! stuff? he played with sanders and sam rivers and lead some classic (but overrated) spiritual jazz late 60s kind of albums with hancock, etc. i thought you liked black unity a lot for some reason. isn't connors the drummer on that?

Yes, I do like Black Unity. I went back and checked all of the Sanders/Shepp/Rivers Impulse dates I own and I only have him on BU (along with Billy Hart) and Rivers' Crystals where it appears he's imbedded with a number of other persussionists. I guess he didn't make that huge of an impression on me.

Edited by Holy Ghost
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If David Weiss (or Bob Belden, for that matter) happen to see this thread, can either of you comment on ...

1) the Jackie McLean date with Woody and Tyrone (be still, my beating heart!), or...

2) the Grant Green date with John Gilmore??

Assuming, of course, that you've heard either of them. Many thanks, David, for your earlier comments about The Trainwreck™. I've long thought that we should start some sort of letter-writing campaign, to get it released as bonus material on a domestic Conn of "Natural Essence". If so, David, would you mind if one or two of us quote your reflections on the date?? -- meaning in some communication with Michael Cuscuna (the target of such a campaign). I have studiously avoided quoting you (to him), not wanting to create that shit storm which you alluded to in your original post.

I imagine that bonus material on a Conn of "Natural Essence" would drive a fair number of "re-sales" to people who already own the TOCJ. And a LACK of bonus material would result in nearly zero "re-sales". I think many of us would happily pay Conn prices to finally hear The Trainwreck™ (hell, I'd pay import prices!). There is so very little material by Tyrone -- it really should be released if there are others (meaning people on the inside, like David and I'm assuming Bob Beldon too) who've heard the material, who's opinions are respected, and see value in it. (I'm trying to meet some sort of "Chuck" threshold here, by arguing for the material based on its merits - and not simply based on our desire to hear it.)

Edited by Rooster_Ties
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What about the two Jackie McLean dates with Charles Tolliver? Do the liners in the Mosaic give any info why they were abandoned? The tunes (I just quickly looked at jazzdisco.org, no real research done) were re-done in the later, released sessions. Still, more Mac with Tolliver... maybe there's some salvagable music, even if it's just alternate versions? (Hey, they also put out the pee pee session with Butch Warren... old memories coming up mentioning that... go Booger, go! :g)

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Have to say that ther's nothing on the BN Lost Sessions that made a real difference in my life. The sessions may have looked good on paper before I heard them, but reality was a whole different deal. I'm sure that Michael Cuscuna has listened to everything that's available to be issued, and probably everything that's worth hearing has already come out. That said, I think that the artists, if they're still living - unfortunately, most are not - should have the final say.

I guess that BN completists will think differently.

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Have to say that ther's nothing on the BN Lost Sessions that made a real difference in my life. The sessions may have looked good on paper before I heard them, but reality was a whole different deal. I'm sure that Michael Cuscuna has listened to everything that's available to be issued, and probably everything that's worth hearing has already come out. That said, I think that the artists, if they're still living - unfortunately, most are not - should have the final say.

I guess that BN completists will think differently.

Yes, nothing that changed my life, but it is nice to finally have gotten a chance to hear the Dameron session!

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The Pep dates by Silver were rejected so I read ( cannot remember when) because the bassist was from out of town and getting some stick off the drunken locals and was also new so his playing was not as it was usually so the gig just did not flow to Horace's satisfaction.

However I am sure that in my quest for all things Horace a quick listen would be more than acceptable ( as log as off course I forgot all about it afterwards)

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