ghost of miles Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 I was introduced to this musician's fine vibraphone work via Oliver Nelson's NOCTURNE about a year ago or so. Recently, as I was re-visiting some of my Indiana jazz sources for a presentation, I learned that Winchester accidentally shot himself to death at one of the better black jazz bars in Indianapolis in 1961. I'm hoping to pick up some of his leader dates in the Fantasy catalog and wondered if anybody else had an opinion to share about this policeman-turned-musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 (edited) He was a policeman in Wilmington, Delaware. Truly one of the nicest, most genuine people I have known. As I recall, his first album was one side of an LP entitled New Faces at Newport. The other side served to introduce Randy Weston. It think it was an MGM or Verve release. Lem had great enthusiasm for all the jazz forms that preceded him. He came to my Philly apartment from time to time, to listen to recordings or, on a couple of occasions, sit down with Elmer Snowden and Lonnie Johnson. Once he brought his grandfather with him, and I could see where he got the winning personality from. He told me that he loved to sit down with his grandfather and listen to him reminisce. "You know," he said, "you can look into the eyes of older people, and see how much fun they had." His death was a great shock to those of us who knew him, especially the manner in which it happened--he was playing Russian roulette. Edited January 24, 2009 by Christiern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted September 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 Thanks for your memories & reflections, Chris. I had a feeling that you might have known him. What a tragedy--my source (David Baker's essay in JAZZ SHRINES) says he'd just given up his police gig the previous year to devote himself fulltime to music. I think he was only 33 when he died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mule Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 I was just listening to Lem as a sideman on Jack McDuff's TOUGH DUFF... Of his sessions as a leader, I'm pretty fond of WINCHESTER SPECIAL with Benny Golson. I also like ANOTHER OPUS quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 Winchester Special is a favorite of mine. I knew he had an early demise but not like this. Had he lived, I think his vibes playing would have ranked him with some of the great players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 Selected discography (just titles that I have): 1959 Lem Winchester And The Ramsey Lewis Trio (Perform A Tribute To Clifford Brown) joy spring,where it is,sandu,once in a while,jordu,it could happen to you,easy to love,a message from boysie Argo 642) Lem Winchester,Ramsey Lewis Trio Lem Winchester & Benny Golson 1959-09-25 Winchester Special down fuzz,if i were a bell,will you still be mine,mysticism,how are things in glocca morra,the dude New Jazz 8223 ojc 1719 Benny Golson,Lem Winchester,Tommy Flanagan,Wendell Marshall,Art Taylor Oliver Nelson 1960-03-22 Taking Care Of Business trane whistle,doxy,in time,lou's good dues,all the way,groove New Jazz 8233 ojc 1784 Oliver Nelson,Lem Winchester,Johnny Hammond Smith,George Tucker,Roy Haynes 1960-04-19 Lem's Beat eddy's dilemma,lem & aide,friendly persuasion,your last chance,lady day,just friends New Jazz 8239 ojc 1785 Lem Winchester,Oliver Nelson,Curtis Peagler,Billy Brown,Roy Johnson,Wendell Marshall, Art Taylor 1960-06-04,10-14 Another Opus another opus,blues prayer,the meetin',like someone in love,both barrels,lid flippin' New Jazz 8244 ojc 1816 Lem Winchester,Frank Wess,Hank Jones,Eddie Jones,Gus Johnson / Johnny Hammond Smith,Eddie McFadden,Wendell Marshall,Bill Erskine Shirley Scott 1960-06-23 Soul Sister on green dolphin street,blues for tyrone,sonnymoon for two,like young, the more i see you,get me to the church on time // + now's the time Prestige 7392 Shirley Scott, Lem Winchester,George Duvivier, Arthur Edgehill Oliver Nelson 1960-08-23 Nocturne nocturne,bob's blues,man with a horn,early morning,in a sentimental mood,azure te ,time after time Moodsville 13 ojc 1795 Oliver Nelson,Lem Winchester,Richard Wyands,George Duvivier,Roy Haynes 1960-10-07 With Feeling why don't they understand,butterfly,with a song in my heart,but beautiful,skylark,to love and be loved,the kids,my romance Moodsville MV 11 ojc 1900 Lem Winchester,Richard Wyands,George Duvivier,Roy Haynes My favorite of all of these is WITH FEELING, a gorgeous collection of ballads. I agree, his death was a huge loss to jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted September 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 Thanks for the discography, Jim. He shot himself at the Topper, a bar on 34th St. in Indianapolis. David Baker led the house band there; in his absence they booked touring acts, including a young Rahsaan Roland Kirk, and Winchester. Winchester also evidently played tenor sax & flute, but I don't know if he ever recorded on those instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted September 28, 2003 Report Share Posted September 28, 2003 I agree, Lem Winchester was an important new voice on the instrument and a great loss. I always enjoyed Another Opus, which was the first of his I bought, and plan to check out more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 Found me a copy of a Japnaese LP reissue of that 1958 Newport album at the site of a US shop. As I love Randy Weston's music just as much, this is a double stroke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted October 5, 2003 Report Share Posted October 5, 2003 Mikeweil, you're very lucky. I have been looking for a copy of this Newport album for years. No luck, so far. Thanks for posting the image, I had never seen what the cover looked like. Trust it's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest the mommy Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 clemme, i will put on "storm warning" tonight out of respect to you and mr. smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alocispepraluger102 Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 I was introduced to this musician's fine vibraphone work via Oliver Nelson's NOCTURNE about a year ago or so. Recently, as I was re-visiting some of my Indiana jazz sources for a presentation, I learned that Winchester accidentally shot himself to death at one of the better black jazz bars in Indianapolis in 1961. I'm hoping to pick up some of his leader dates in the Fantasy catalog and wondered if anybody else had an opinion to share about this policeman-turned-musician. doing a seg? damn shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 (edited) For those who don't know yet: A comprehensive Lem Winchester discography can be found here. Edited February 3, 2007 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailman Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 He was a policeman in Wilmington, Delaware. Truly one of the nicest, most genuine people I have known. As I recall, his first album was one side of an LP entitled New Faces at Newport. [//i]The other side served to introduce Randy Weston. It think it was an MGM or Verve release. Lem had great enthusiasm for all the jazz forms that preceded him. He came to my Philly apartment from time to time, to listen to recordings or, on a couple of occasions, sit down with Elmer Snowden and Lonnie Johnson. Once he brought his grandfather with him, and I could see where he got the winning personality from. He told me that he loved to sit down with his grandfather and listen to him reminisce. "You know," he said, "you can look into the eyes of older people, and see how much fun they had." His death was a great shock to those of us who knew him, especially the manner in which it happened--he was playing Russian roulette. Just a heartfelt thankyou for those Lonnie Johnson and Elmer Snowden recordings. They have given me countless hours of pleasure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted February 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 I was introduced to this musician's fine vibraphone work via Oliver Nelson's NOCTURNE about a year ago or so. Recently, as I was re-visiting some of my Indiana jazz sources for a presentation, I learned that Winchester accidentally shot himself to death at one of the better black jazz bars in Indianapolis in 1961. I'm hoping to pick up some of his leader dates in the Fantasy catalog and wondered if anybody else had an opinion to share about this policeman-turned-musician. doing a seg? damn shame. Yes, he was on the original list of 100+ program ideas when I first proposed the show--but somebody's working on a bio & so I've been holding off till it comes out. (Or at least until I can perhaps read an advance copy--would like to get some more background on LW before preparing a program.) That was quite a score, Mike--I've had half an eye out for that Newport LP for a long time. I need to check out that McDuff side, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 I have to admit I was a little underwhelmed by Winchester's Newport appearance - not as individual as the Prestige sides. The Weston tracks were worth the price of admission, though - but Weston was much more advanced in his artistic formation, I guess, than Winchester. I will give it a spin and report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 (edited) Spinning it right now: The rhythm section was Herb Pomeroy's (Ray Santisi, John Neves, and Jimmy Zitano) - Lem Winchester was invited as a single to the festival. His peculiar sound is there, but it's three standards (Now's the Time, Polka Dots and Moonbeams, and Take the 'A' Train) in simple head arrangements - much like a jam session, but the level is very high - you can hear a great vibes soloist, that's clear. But his own musical vision comes through much better on the Prestige sides, even on the sideman dates. I will see if I can make CDRs later this year - depends on when my friend can spare his Alesis machine for a week. Edited February 4, 2007 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six string Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 All I have is Winchest Special but it's a solid date. Of course, having Benny Golson on your album certainly doesn't hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alocispepraluger102 Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I was introduced to this musician's fine vibraphone work via Oliver Nelson's NOCTURNE about a year ago or so. Recently, as I was re-visiting some of my Indiana jazz sources for a presentation, I learned that Winchester accidentally shot himself to death at one of the better black jazz bars in Indianapolis in 1961. I'm hoping to pick up some of his leader dates in the Fantasy catalog and wondered if anybody else had an opinion to share about this policeman-turned-musician. the winchester recording "another opus" liner notes state that his young son accidentally shot lem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 I was introduced to this musician's fine vibraphone work via Oliver Nelson's NOCTURNE about a year ago or so. Recently, as I was re-visiting some of my Indiana jazz sources for a presentation, I learned that Winchester accidentally shot himself to death at one of the better black jazz bars in Indianapolis in 1961. I'm hoping to pick up some of his leader dates in the Fantasy catalog and wondered if anybody else had an opinion to share about this policeman-turned-musician. the winchester recording "another opus" liner notes state that his young son accidentally shot lem. Don't think so, unless you have some later LP issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 The OJC CD reproduces Joe Goldberg's original notes, and they were written before Lem died. Bob Weinstock's addendum, written later, does not mention the specifics of the accident, nor Lem's son. Goldberg's notes for "With Feeling" mention the incident, but do not mention Lem's son. I've read stories like this before on bulletin boards, but I've never had anybody respond when I've questioned them about their sources... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 For example, check this out: AAJ thread from 2005 The guy suggests that Lem was a policeman in Wilmington, Maryland, and that the child involved was his nephew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 I was introduced to this musician's fine vibraphone work via Oliver Nelson's NOCTURNE about a year ago or so. Recently, as I was re-visiting some of my Indiana jazz sources for a presentation, I learned that Winchester accidentally shot himself to death at one of the better black jazz bars in Indianapolis in 1961. I'm hoping to pick up some of his leader dates in the Fantasy catalog and wondered if anybody else had an opinion to share about this policeman-turned-musician. the winchester recording "another opus" liner notes state that his young son accidentally shot lem. Don't think so, unless you have some later LP issue. Am I missing something here? Anybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 I was introduced to this musician's fine vibraphone work via Oliver Nelson's NOCTURNE about a year ago or so. Recently, as I was re-visiting some of my Indiana jazz sources for a presentation, I learned that Winchester accidentally shot himself to death at one of the better black jazz bars in Indianapolis in 1961. I'm hoping to pick up some of his leader dates in the Fantasy catalog and wondered if anybody else had an opinion to share about this policeman-turned-musician. the winchester recording "another opus" liner notes state that his young son accidentally shot lem. Don't think so, unless you have some later LP issue. Am I missing something here? Anybody? I have a Japanese reissue of Another Opus, and the liner notes make no mention of Lem Winchester's son. The only mention of his passing is, as you mentioned, Jim, in Bob Weinstock's addendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Up for air. Really listening to a lot of Lem lately. One of the true greats. Especially loved Chris' first hand knowledge, would love to hear more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.