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playing with bad drummers


Soul Stream

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I've been in drummer hell lately. Landed a regular tuesday night gig, but the two drummers I always use (the two best jazz drummers in town) both have had steady tuesday gigs. So I've been fishing around. The playing level really, really, really, falls off after the first few. Especially for jazz.

Tonight I got a guy the guitar player usually plays with in a dixieland band. Fuck. Have you ever hear an organ trio with a dixieland beat? Neither had I, but I did tonight. I've never hired someone sight unseen, but I was screwed and couldn't find ANYONE up until a few hours before the gig. I was super desperate. Why didn't I just hire my usual tenor guy and do it organ, tenor, guitar. I've really learned my lesson. Ugggg. :blink:

Well, that was my rant. Anyone else have a horrible drummer story.(do I have to even ask?) :excited:

Since we can cuss here, I just have to end this with fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. 3 sets never felt so long.

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We once had some dude our bass player knew (this is my R&B band) sit in at an outdoor beer tent. This guy was incredible. In the worst way. He filled up absolutely every tiny square micron of space. There was no such thing as a rest in this man's head. I'd never heard anything like it. We played one tune with him and then politely ENDED THE SET even though we weren't supposed to go on break yet. It was horrendous.

What's even worse for us organists than playing with a bad drummer is playing with a bad drummer AND bassist. The whole time you're thinking, "Shit, I could waste this guy with my left hand and take his bread... what gives?" Hehe!

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In fact, I remember you doing just that one night, Jim. It was at Villegas. The guy was just sitting in, but it became so unbearable that you finally started kicking organ bass. Jesus. Of this bass player, Rodney Whitiker had said, "If this were a military organization, and it was your turn to be on guard duty, you'd all be dead! :huh:

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We've all had the "sit-in" nightmares over the years. But 3 straight sets was a killer. I knew I was in trouble the minute the guy showed up with his Gene Krupa HUGE bass drum and kit ala' 1930's. He was one of these "swing" guys. It was like playing with a robot. 4 on the floor all night long. And that bass drum sounded like a high school marching band...a huge hollow, ringing sound. Finally, I surrendered to his style and that seemed to work a little better. He sure wasn't getting the clue that the swing era had ended, so I did my Wild Bill Davis impression all night long. :wacko:

Speaking of sit-ins. Some guy with a flugle horn jumped up on stage out of nowhere the other night and just starts playing and then I COULD NOT GET HIM OFF! After the first tune..."O.K. everybody, how about a nice hand for ....." Giving him the hint to get off. No clue. 3 songs into in, I had to tell him thanks, we're going to play a tune you don't know. "That's o.k., I'll wing it" he says. This was after he requested "Lover Man," played the head and then fumbled over the rest. NO, I said...and ended the set early just like you guys did.

It's been a rough couple of days, hijacked by a shitty flugle horn player then accosted by Gene Krupa's offspring. :rolleyes:

Sorry about the rant. Usually I'm pretty humble and understanding, but it's been a couple of hard gigs. Hope I'm not coming off as a know it all jackass.

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You're not coming off as an ass at all. I understand completely where you're coming from.

Man, last night's gig was weird, but in a good way. My mentor, Doug Decker, came out to the Green Door. I was subbing for a guitarist in this two guitar band... had my B3 at the club since the weekend. So I play the first set. I ask Doug if he wants to sit in... "Nah, maybe later."

Second set I play one tune. Then someone in the audience requests a Joe Cocker tune. Doug comes up and says, "Hey, I know a Cocker tune... can I play?"

"Sure," I say. He tears it up, sounds great as usual. Then he finishes out the set. Ok... no big deal. I'm still getting paid.

Third set he starts and finishes. Fourth set I play one tune and then he finishes the night. So he wound up playing almost the whole gig. It was great for me because I got to hear him play some cool shit and he sounded fantastic. But I felt a little guilty at the end of the night taking the money. I almost offered him some, but I am B-R-O-K-E. And I got the call...

Weird situation. But he didn't say anything about money and seemed to have a good time, so it was cool, I hope!

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In fact, I remember you doing just that one night, Jim. It was at Villegas. The guy was just sitting in, but it became so unbearable that you finally started kicking organ bass. Jesus. Of this bass player, Rodney Whitiker had said, "If this were a military organization, and it was your turn to be on guard duty, you'd all be dead! :huh:

Dude, that "bassist" is the biggest ass-clown on earth. When I first joined the combo program at State, Andrew put me in a combo with him. Not only was I in a combo with a dude that couldn't play a bass line over a three chord blues in F unless he was reading it off the page (and even then his intonation and time were atrocious) but Andrew made me play piano, too... with a 1966 B3 sitting right there in the corner.

It drove me insane. The dude had these business cards that he handed out that said, "Such-and-such... musician, composer, arranger..." I'm thinking, "Yeah right, buddy!! Who the fuck are you trying to fool?"

Rosin made a funny comment about him once at Villegas. He said something to the tune of, "That guy should just realize he isn't a musician and go into accounting or something."

Ouch!

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To bring this back to the original topic, I have been very fortunate to play with some very good drummers for the last 8 years or so. Before that, there were some that were merely adequate, but then so was I. I haven't played with a truly bad drummer since high school, when we all sucked! But the guy I'm thinking of was also very immature, so having two strikes against him made his position in our band very precarious indeed. Haven't seen the guy in more than a decade; I don't even know if he still plays music.

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When I was in high school, our band had a drummer who LOVED the band Rush. All he could do was talk about their drummer. Our band sounded nothing like this band, so it wasn't really a good mix. Our drummer would overplay all the time. It really sucked.

The capper was his China Boy cymbol. Our drummer spoke in hushed tones about this amazing cymbol for weeks before he finally bought one. Unfortunately he debuted his new cymbol during a show.

That was the most godawful thing I ever heard. I think it stopped space and time when he hit it. It was horrible. Everybody in the band turned around when he hit that thing.

He sure loved that cymbol.

We replaced him the following week with a drum machine.

:rsmile:

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I hadn't played with a truely "bad" drummer on a whole gig for probably the last 6 or 7 years. So last night was a real horror story. It really makes you appreciate who you play with regularly. I've honestly only played with the same handfull of drummers for several years now. I wouldn't even catagorize last night as playing "music," it felt like something else..."work."

Plus, in all honesty this guy is probably "great" for his bag (are you gals and guys ready to swing dance!), his time was fine and he did excel on some things. It's just his style doesn't fit with what I'm doing. That's the killer. People can all be pretty good at what they do, but if the styles don't fit there's a huge problem. Especially for something as demanding drummer-wise as an organ trio. Plus nothing bothers me more than playing with someone who isn't listening to what's going on. They're in there own world thinking they're doing great. The guy never had a clue anything was wrong. Matter of fact, he asked if he could have the gig every week. :rolleyes:

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We replaced him the following week with a drum machine.

Damn, that is COLD!

Yeah, it was cold.

But we got a sort of karmic payback a month later.

We were playing a show in front of a couple thousand people (our biggest show yet) and our drum machine went nuts. Our singer who had been a drummer had programmed the damn thing. It was stereo drum city. I really hated it.

So we're playing away and the drum machine goes bananas, it's playing everything possible, and it's panning between the speakers. I just stopped. Put my bass guitar down and walked away while the singer was trying unsuccessfully to get it to stop. It was really embarrassing.

Needless to say, the next week we replaced the drum machine with the lead singer's sister on drums. I have to give her credit, she did a good job.

:rsmile:

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I've been in drummer hell lately.

Hey, I'm a diverse drummer with jazz background if you ever find yourself in that situation again. I've been playing for 5 years and my instructor happens to be the drummer for the wonderful band, organissimo. I'm only 18 and I'm not sure what your expectations are, but I have good feel, love to juss play with a tight combo (have a cd wit my previous combo), and I can lay down all styles.

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From the other end of the perspective, last time I saw Quartet Out (JSngry's kick-ass combo), before the set, I noticed that the drummer was nowhere to be found, and it was getting closer to start-time. The drummer showed up. Thankfully.

The point of all this is, this guy saved me from making an even bigger fool of myself than I already do. For those who've never been in a band, maybe you know that kind of mind-fantasy that kicks in: "Hey, their [insert instrument here]-player isn't here. I like to play that instrument. Wonder if they'll let me play as a last-minute sub? Hell, I'd even do it for free, just to be able to play with these guys!" Anyway, as the set progressed, and their drummer was tearing the place up and destroying my spinal column, I became very thankful that the fantasy remained just as it is: a fantasy.

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Got a last minute call tonight from a great trumpet player, rushed down to do the gig and found out it was just a duo, organ and trumpet. That was one of the most fun gigs I've played in a long time. So, next time I'm pressed to find a drummer, I'm tempted not to get one. I found it much, much easier to play tonight without one that last night with one. Ahhhh freedom... :D

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I've been in drummer hell lately.

Hey, I'm a diverse drummer with jazz background if you ever find yourself in that situation again. I've been playing for 5 years and my instructor happens to be the drummer for the wonderful band, organissimo. I'm only 18 and I'm not sure what your expectations are, but I have good feel, love to juss play with a tight combo (have a cd wit my previous combo), and I can lay down all styles.

The catch (if this was directed at Soul Stream exclusively) is that he lives in Texas, I gather. That's a looong commute for a 100 dollar gig.

Edited by Joe G
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The way things are going economically lately, $20 is getting closer to the mark! (o.k., not really thank god.) Anyway, a lot of the places are cutting the money in the last year or so. And if the last week is any indicator, if this is a lengthy war the gig money could get worse real quick.

The trumpet player I played with last night has found a simple solution. He just plays a lot of duos and trios now. That's almost all he does. I used to see him with a 5 man crew almost exclusively. He works every night somewhere and always wins the top trumpet in the local rag. But money's so tight, in order to make his nut he just cut the # of guys on the gig. A shame, but a neccessary action I guess. It's made me start to re-think some of my gigs.

I don't know about up north, but down here there entertainment bus. is hurting.

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We are waiting to see how things shape up. Is it our bad luck to finally release our CD during a war? Or will people be more interested because they want some relief from the carnage? I don't know. A good friend of mine feels that the act of creation in art forms such as music is an act that runs counter to the violence, apathy, and whatever else you don't like in the world. I agree. (this sounds like a topic for a new thread... let me think about that.)

Economics was a major factor in the end of the big band era; now we see it affecting the small groups, making them even smaller. But we musicians are supposed to come up with creative responses to the challenges that present themselves, aren't we? The times, they are a'changing...

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I think for the time being, there's two things at work. The bad ecomony (people don't have the money to go out) and the war (people would rather stay home and watch what's going on with the war on t.v.).

Either way that means fewer people. Creative as we can be, without patrons the clubs and restaurants won't be able to survive. I've seen that happen drastically in the last year. I'm not optimistic about the immediate future.

But like you said Joe, I've actually seen an increase in local creativity since things began to fall apart. It does bring out something in creative people. The adversity factor at work. Personally, my work has increased in the last year and especially in the last 2 months. Go figure. :wacko:

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Weird situation. But he didn't say anything about money and seemed to have a good time, so it was cool.

I would go to this blues jam session in Toronto every week, about 10 years ago, a really good one. The piano player let me do a couple of tune here and there, then it became a whole set, and more. I thought it was funny cause he was in the house band and was getrting paid. Then I looked down from the stage and I saw him drinking with 2 women who became Wednesday regulars! He wanted me to keep playing so he could keep "playing" as well. He got the cash and I got the experience of playing with many different blues muscians in town. However, I eventually tired of working for free... B)

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A friend of mine recently did a gig in Toronto's Skydome. This is where the the Blue Jays play baseball, etc. It seats 50,000 and usually the Rolling Stones are the only ones who could fill it. The gig was part of several bands performing for an Aboriginal event. Anyways, the drummer was told he did not need to bring his kit, as one would be set up there, fully miked etc.

Of course this never happened. No kit whatsoever from the promotor. Luckily the drummer wisely brought his snare drum. So he has his snare on his lap with a mike hanging over it, and a mike on his foot hitting the ground (wooden stage) to act as the bass drum. I give this guy credit for turning around a situation rather than going home.

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I'm not a big fan of sitting in. If so, 3 songs tops and a thank you, how about a big hand for.... Even if the player is someone you love playing with. After 3 songs the gig turns into something else.

If someone does sit in invited and wants to play all night, I guess that's cool if the guy who he's replacing doesn't care. I don't find this to be the case for the most part. Players, with a few exceptions, come to play. Plus, unless it's the leader giving up his chair you can run into problems. I had a drummer who had had a long day (it was his third gig) just tire out. He invited some lesser people to the stand while he rested and let them have a go. Tired or not, I hired that guy for the job because he was qualified, the others weren't so up to it. Needless to say, the gig really suffered and it soured me on the guy.

These are all things to think about. Sitting in is over-rated and more often than not leads to a lesser evening for all. Unless you live in NYC or someplace crawling with overqualified musicians itching to play.

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I'm not a big fan of sitting in.  If so, 3 songs tops and a thank you, how about a big hand for....  Even if the player is someone you love playing with.  After 3 songs the gig turns into something else. 

Right. Namely, a jam session. <_<

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