Brad Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 That strikes me as a pretty lame excuse and now those 15 seconds are now apparently lost to history, which is a pity. On one level, 15 second out of a five album set would not that significant a loss. In my view, this is certainly not a reason not to buy the set. I don't have the TOCJ and frankly can't see buying it if I could for those 15 seconds. On another level, it's pretty lame that the master has that defect in it. As someone noted, this could be a problem for many masters in the future, with constant remastering for this edition or that edition. I wonder in what condtion Blue Trane is in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 Soul Stream has a point. With all this re-mastering eventually the BN tapes are going to disintegrate and become useless. It seems like someone at BN would realize this and transfer all the tapes, once and for all, into a high resolution format that they could then re-master to their heart's content. Current digital gear can now do 24-bit, 192kHz recording with no problems and some custom gear can go higher than that (just talk to Telarc). This is far above and beyond CD and even beyond DVD-A playback resolution. It seems like the smart thing to do would be to transfer all the tapes to a dependable, redundant array at the highest resolution possible and then leave the original master tapes ALONE! I'm glad I've got the TOCJ of "The Way I Feel" I can tell you that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wheel Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 You'd think that with all the devoted research that Mosaic does that they could spend a little time and money looking for and listening to Japanese CDs. After all, it's the superior quality of the Japanese releases that cuts into their sales in the first place; wouldn't it make good business sense to make sure that their own stuff is just as good so people don't skip over it in favor of TOCJs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 While I won't debate the issue of THE WAY I FEEL tape wear, I would definitely take exception with the notion that all the Japanese BN CDs are "superior" sounding compared to recent American editions. In fact, I routinely trade in TOCJs and JRVGs for US reissues these days. Almost always I find the U.S. RVG's to be better than either of those formats, and many of McMaster's recent 24 bit remasterings are quite good. Not surprising, since the Japanese versions are to my understanding NOT from the original master tapes. While occasionally you run into a tape wear issue like this, mostly I'd prefer to have all the sonic detail of the original rather than a second generation source (which may give the TOCJ's a bit mellower, LP-like sound but sacrifices a lot of detail to my way of hearing). Now as far as the older U.S. jobs, that's a different story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 (edited) well, I ordered the Patton select late last night/early AM, after checking out "Jerry", which smoked. Shame about "The Rock" distortion though. This will be my first exposure to Big John in a serious listening manner and will be looking forward to it. It wil also have to be my one "big" purchase this month since I quit my job earlier today, it was on good faith, but school is getting too heavy to worry about going and collecting bills for MCI. I haven't ordered from Mosaic in 6 years, first time ordering from them online, do they ship fairly quickly with o/l orders? I remember back from my pre o/l orders where they shipped the Smith, Morgan and Mobley sets very fast when I ordered, even graciously replacing a badly damaged in transit disc 6 of the Mobley very expiediently. Edited October 10, 2003 by CJ Shearn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 I'd have to disagree with Tony in certain respects about domestic cd sounding better than a Japanese remaster. Although I find the US RVGs to be comparable, if I have the JRVG, I only buy the US one because it usually has more songs. That advantage seems to be disappearing because some of the recent JRVGs have songs that weren't on the original lp configuration. In addtion, for the JRVG series, I find it hard to believe that Rudy wouldn't be remastering from the source tape. Considering the quality control that the Japanese pride themselves, I find it hard to believe that the Japanese are using a secondary source. If everything is equal, songs, quality, etc., I'd probably pick the JRVGs over the RVGs. Trouble is I don't think everything always is and that's why they have the preferred reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 Brad, I could be remembering incorrectly, but there was a long involved thread about this issue of which reissues come from the original masters on the old BN BB. As I recall, the upshot was that most (all?) TOCJ's DO NOT come from the original tapes, but rather 2nd generation copies residing in Japan. Some have even been transferred from pristine LPs in cases where master tapes weren't available (darn if I can remember which titles, but there are some TOCJs where people have reported clearly audible LP surface noise on isolated quiet passages). This would certainly partially explain why the TOCJs have an LP-like warmth to them but, again to my ears, often sound less detailed. I'm less certain about the JRVG's, but again recall that there was some info that these were not done using the original tapes. It didn't have so much to do with lack of quality concerns by the Japanese but rather the logistics of getting the original master tapes. I think my ears tell me this is true - how else to explain the different sound quality of some of the titles for which there are both JRVG and US RVG versions (in most cases the US versions sound better to me, but the point is everyone seems to agree they sound different)? Can anyone who recalls this discussion whose memory may be better than mine chime in to clarify? Happy to be proved wrong if my memory is faulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wood Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 I can't recall about the JRVGs, but I do also remember the TOCJs being mentioned as being from second generation tapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 Well, I guess I stand to be corrected, especially regarding the TOCJs. Now, regarding the JRVGs, doesn't Rudy probably have access to the master tapes and he remasters them in the U.S. (in his studio, I'd presume) and then Toshiba just brings them back to Japan for making them into pressings? Or could he be remastering them from second generation sources? Somehow, the latter suggestion doesn't seem logical to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny weir Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 Ahhh, my first Mosaic Select. Well, actually it's only my second Mosaic. I got this on the back of a big order by a buddy. These things are cool - I can slip it into the house and my wife will never know. Whereas if I got another Mosaic deluxe job to join the Chico Hamilton - well, they kind of stick out like ... well, even she'd pick up on it. Anyways ... I've long been familiar with Big John's talents , but mainly as a sideman except for Let 'Em Roll, so this is my first real exposure to his stuff. And I'm gobsmacked. For all the greasing and grooving, I'm thrilled with the great LISTENING there is here. Patton's much more than a one-dimensional talent he's sometimes portrayed as. The Green/Dixon stuff is dynamite, but what has really blown me away are the That Certain Feeling and Understanding sessions. Understanding, in particular, with just drums and sax/flute is incredible - it epitomises what someone termed on a a recent thread (somewhere) of hard grooving with outside tendencies. Yippeee!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny weir Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 Ahhh, my first Mosaic Select. Well, actually it's only my second Mosaic. I got this on the back of a big order by a buddy. These things are cool - I can slip it into the house and my wife will never know. Whereas if I got another Mosaic deluxe job to join the Chico Hamilton - well, they kind of stick out like ... well, even she'd pick up on it. Anyways ... I've long been familiar with Big John's talents , but mainly as a sideman except for Let 'Em Roll, so this is my first real exposure to his stuff. And I'm gobsmacked. For all the greasing and grooving, I'm thrilled with the great LISTENING there is here. Patton's much more than a one-dimensional talent he's sometimes portrayed as. The Green/Dixon stuff is dynamite, but what has really blown me away are the That Certain Feeling and Understanding sessions. Understanding, in particular, with just drums and sax/flute is incredible - it epitomises what someone termed on a a recent thread (somewhere) of hard grooving with outside tendencies. Yippeee!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 ...just wondered if anybody has had enough time to let this sink in. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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