Brownian Motion

New Yorker Magazine Profile of Phil Schaap

92 posts in this topic

I have no idea what prompted this venom from an anonymous fellow member, nor--considering the O history of the source, am I letting it bother me--but, where do we draw the line here, Larry?

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Following Jim's lead, I'm not much into drawing lines except in obvious cases -- spammers, trolls, seemingly dangerous nut cases, etc. EDC strikes me as one of a kind; in fact, his persona seems to have been carefully crafted to create that impression. Obviously intelligent, with a good deal of varied experience, and with lots of frequently self-consciously provocative opinions, which he typically states in a self-consciously provocative manner, at times he just flies right into a wall at high speed and goes splat, covering himself and all those within range with smelly goo. In part because I tend to agree with EDC about many things, I've often found his posts, stimulating, illuminating, even amusing, but this piece of ugly, seemingly out-of-nowhere behavior ... well, it's the smelly goo problem, perhaps. How much of it can and should be endured? If the rest of us can wipe it off and go on, I say that EDC should be allowed to come to his (or his persona's) senses and go on, too -- though perhaps the above will really set him off. I hope not.

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... well, it's the smelly goo problem, perhaps. How much of it can and should be endured? If the rest of us can wipe it off and go on, I say that EDC should be allowed to come to his (or his persona's) senses and go on, too...

Don't you mean "in his pants"? :g :g :g :g

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restless, irritable and discontent.

I say.

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In my opinion, when a poster decides to invent an over-the-top, artificial, deliberately weird-for-weird's sake persona for the purpose of making informed and provocative posts about music, that is often entertaining, sometimes thought-provoking, and sometimes tedious.

When the same poster uses the artificially constructed persona to make bitter attacks against other members, that's not cool, in my opinion.

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by the way, Dick Schaap was Phil's cousin - thought I'd change the dynamic a little bit here, sports fans -

Edited by AllenLowe

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BULLSHIT-- Ptah & everyone-- start pulling up Chris Albertson comments on Phil Schaap-- pls don't protest, just start doing it.

i suspect maybe people outside NYC & those who don't follow WKCR haven't paid attention to this before? that's fine too, ain't your affray, but spare us the defense of Albertson's ** years ** of Phil Schaap mockery, "slander," etc etc.

that's fine too but waaaaaay more than a few people reading this know exactly what edc is typing about. you think i make this crap up? pay attention.

i ain't even saying who's right or who's wrong (answer: both, or neither) but Holier Than Thou Albertson is insufferable.

Oh what the hell:

I was bored.

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BULLSHIT-- Ptah & everyone-- start pulling up Chris Albertson comments on Phil Schaap-- pls don't protest, just start doing it.

i suspect maybe people outside NYC & those who don't follow WKCR haven't paid attention to this before? that's fine too, ain't your affray, but spare us the defense of Albertson's ** years ** of Phil Schaap mockery, "slander," etc etc.

that's fine too but waaaaaay more than a few people reading this know exactly what edc is typing about. you think i make this crap up? pay attention.

i ain't even saying who's right or who's wrong (answer: both, or neither) but Holier Than Thou Albertson is insufferable.

Oh what the hell:

I was bored.

Look who's talking!

Do a search through the board archives and look to see all the over the top angry shit Dan posted over the years.

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Out of respect for the board "owner's" recent death in the family & his subsequent retreat for appropriate meditations, could we all just hold off on the pissing contests for a little bit?

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thank you, Dan: may a 1000 Lowell Fulson & Jimmy McCracklin records be yours well before the afterlife.

:g

About to give a first listen to Jimmy's Imperial release Every Night, Every Day - its got a few tunes I've got elsewhere but about 60% of it is new.

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Out of respect for the board "owner's" recent death in the family & his subsequent retreat for appropriate meditations, could we all just hold off on the pissing contests for a little bit?

I know, I tried, I couldn't help myself.

.

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Out of respect for the board "owner's" recent death in the family & his subsequent retreat for appropriate meditations, could we all just hold off on the pissing contests for a little bit?

:tup

I would like to add that I don't see Chris attacking other board members here though. Sort of a one sided pissing contest.

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What an entertaining article. That New York’s premiere jazz radio “personality” is a compulsive only seems appropriate. The complexities he personifies shake out in a contribution that’s been streaky. It’s too bad he wasn’t able to guide compulsive behavior with the professionalism his sports announcing brethren brought to their careers. It seems like everything – the radio program, the concerts, the attention to benefiting lost leaders, all led up to what for anyone is graduation: being invited from the non-commercial realm into the highest level of commercial responsibility a non musician can offer, the stewarding of recordings to the marketplace via Columbia.

That that tenure, at that moment -- the 100th anniversary of Duke Ellington -- ended ignobly is reason for contrition, modesty, embarrassment.

The Ellington at Newport CD was a revelation – that those two tapes came together, finally, and the live performance was separated from the studio one makes that issue an important addition. The Goodman at Carnegie Hall has problems with the sound, yet so does the massive RCA Ellington Centennial collection. That seemed to be the sound a generation wanted to hold up with their new technology. Too bad. Even though there are incredible re-masterings amid the over cooked high end 78 rpm cymbal and trumpet fizz-outs on the Ellington, I think it is time to buy the JSP Goodman at Carnegie and move on, use it in the library for airplay on that concert. For Schaap “Such Sweet Thunder” was a failure. What a tough and complicated high pressure game there, folks, and not many are set up to deal with it though Schaap had the chance to metamorphose into a player of major global and historical significance for all time, messed up, and was dismissed. What can you say about that? He was invited on to the roof and fell off.

There are many New York musicians who I’ve spoken with who think he’s the greatest because of the radio show. The Monk anecdote is a career for anyone, even if it was to correct. Phil and the station engaged (engages?) the attention of the jazz world. Crouch’s quote summed up a lot.

In any case, an entertaining article.

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NOW... we all have our hates (NPR "news-u-tainment", Beck, U2, New Pornographers, politics & baseball (together), the TABC, Scientology, Hillary, Oscar Peterson solos, Jarrett Standards Trio, Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra) & things we like to Van-duh-mock (Clark Terry, Kendra Shank, The Band, Gary Giddins, Culture Critic, Whitney Balliett, Prose Stylist, etc etc ad nauseum)...

Alex Ross?

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edc was posting Tejas, didn't see the Southern Gentleman's request until apres my Paul Gonsalves move.

Cool.

We got plenty of (other) times to do this, if we must (and must we? what's the hoped for/anticipated outcome? But that's just me, & those are not question to which I'm looking to be answered, ok?...).

So can we chill on it for right now, out of respect for the recently departed pater Alfredson?

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So can we chill on it for right now, out of respect for the recently departed pater Alfredson?

Sounds like a reasonable request to me.

Like I said, I just couldn't stop myself.

It's a never ending battle for truth, justice, and the American way.

.

Edited by 7/4

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With regard to clementine's type of attack on another member here, I don't care who it is or why--I hate this stuff and it has no place on any online forum.

Jazz Corner Speakeasy featured this kind of personal attack regularly.

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Aggie-- what's the difference between attachking someone on or off the board?

The way I see it, Chris' comments about Schaap are professional in nature, while yours about Chris are personal.

The board doesn't need personal attacks between members, now especially, but really at any time.

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Years ago I found him educational - on a basic intro to Jazz level, particularly the memorials & birthday broadcasts on WKCR.

It's hard to listen to him now. He goes on and on and on and on....

This sums up my attitude entirely. When I first started listening to jazz, I found Bird Flight indispensible. However, as I learned and listened more, I outgrew him and he kind of gets on my nerves now.

The guy who I like to listen now in the morning is the drive time person on Tuesdays. He goes by the moniker Symphony Sid. Not sure what his last name is.

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by the way, Dick Schaap was Phil's cousin - thought I'd change the dynamic a little bit here, sports fans -

He interviewed him once on the show a few years ago.

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Hmmm...funny...

I don't see Clem's posts so much as personal attacks on Chris..., but more as Clem trying to - in his own way - motivate/build a fire underneath/encourage/prod/goad Chris into doing something/put up or shut up/ etc. that would be just the opposite of what Chris is talking about is lacking in Schaap's work. ...a well-done, accurate book/broadcast/blog/etc. that would then truly be good for jazz. (jass)

I could be wrong though...

Sorry for the run-on sentence... :blink:

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5) sometimes, on the radio, he is ** tremendous ** & ABSOLUTELY, we've gained more in terms of historiography by his obsessions than lost due to distaste for the personality.

With but a snip here and a word change there, couldn't this be said about edc as well?

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fwiw: I really appreciate you standing up for the Schaapsterizer, clem. Sure, he can grate with his breathless information and by playing one tune for every 20 minutes of talking, but the fellow is indeed quite a character, chock full of anecdotes (if not stone cold facts?) about the history, the people, the music. And of course his symbiotic relationship with jazz Arch Angel (in my hierarchy anyway) Papa Jo earns him eternal kudos from me. Now I don't know what fictions he's woven in among all the many yarns, but the man is pretty undeniably a treasure trove of American music and while his style may not be to everyone's liking, you can't but acknowledge that he is immensely generous (if fairly bloated) with knowledge - which is all too rare these days! Ask the folks who work at JLC who Pharoah Sanders is, who Roy Eldridge is, who Freddie Green is and you won't begin to imagine how few know!

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fwiw: I really appreciate you standing up for the Schaapsterizer, clem. Sure, he can grate with his breathless information and by playing one tune for every 20 minutes of talking, but the fellow is indeed quite a character, chock full of anecdotes (if not stone cold facts?) about the history, the people, the music. And of course his symbiotic relationship with jazz Arch Angel (in my hierarchy anyway) Papa Jo earns him eternal kudos from me. Now I don't know what fictions he's woven in among all the many yarns, but the man is pretty undeniably a treasure trove of American music and while his style may not be to everyone's liking, you can't but acknowledge that he is immensely generous (if fairly bloated) with knowledge - which is all too rare these days! Ask the folks who work at JLC who Pharoah Sanders is, who Roy Eldridge is, who Freddie Green is and you won't begin to imagine how few know!

"Amen" to what you've said, Elissa!

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