trane_fanatic Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 (edited) I am familiar, of course, with the names in the group (Corea, Clarke, L. White, Di Meola). But I've never heard any of their music collectively before. Just curious cuz they gotta tour which stops in Frisco on Wednesday and Thursday and tickets cost an arm and a leg. Never been too much into rock-jazz fusion besides the Miles stuff and a few Joe Henderson sides. http://www.return2forever.com/ FWIW, I hated Mahavishnu Orchestra or whatever they're called when I heard them. Can anybody school me? Edited June 9, 2008 by trane_fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 They're miscellaneous. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 (edited) I am familiar, of course, with the names in the group (Corea, Clarke, L. White, Di Meola). But I've never heard any of their music collectively before. Just curious cuz they gotta tour which stops in Frisco on Wednesday and Thursday and tickets cost an arm and a leg. Never been too much into rock-jazz fusion besides the Miles stuff and a few Joe Henderson sides. http://www.return2forever.com/ FWIW, I hated Mahavishnu Orchestra or whatever they're called when I heard them. Can anybody school me? This lineup of RtF struck me as a bad parody of Mahavishnu. Based on your comments I do not think you would enjoy the music. Guy Edited June 9, 2008 by Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 Gotta agree with Guy (though I don't think ALL of the RTF cataloge is a "parody"). If you didn't like Mahavishnu, then you won't like RTF. I think Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy is my favorite album of this line-up, although I realize Di Meola wasn't on that record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 I think Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy is my favorite album of this line-up, although I realize Di Meola wasn't on that record. Al was part of the problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Al Dim Eola? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trane_fanatic Posted June 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Hmm... guess I won't care much for them then. Are they any worse than Weather Report? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Are they any worse than Weather Report? Then you really won't like them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 (edited) FWIW, I recently wrote about Concord's reissue of the four original RTF LPs. Going back and listening closely to these records for the first time in decades was an interesting experience. I mostly disliked them for the same reasons I always did, though there were a couple of things that surprised me, particularly composition-wise. I will say this from the old days: The group sounded better accompanied by some bong hits. (70s is as 70s does.) Also, don't be lumping Weather Report in with RTF -- there's just no comparison in terms of the musicianship and depth of expression. Early WR -- the abstract first two records and the trilogy of Sweetnighter, Mysterious Traveler and Black Market with their increasingly fleshed out compositions and amazing orchestrations are deep. Later WR is a different story, but I've come to really, really admire that early stuff. Anyway, here's what I wrote about RTF: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nostalgia has a funny way of turning everything into a "classic," from lowbrow sitcoms to mildly successful pop tunes. Even questionable jazz of a certain vintage can re-emerge decades later to a chorus of huzzahs from press and fans. To put it another way: Return to Forever is back. Forgive me for not jumping for joy. Chick Corea's quartet, an icon of '70s fusion, has reunited for the first time in 32 years, save a one-off concert in 1983. The foursome -- Corea on keyboards, Al Di Meola on guitar, Stanley Clarke on electric bass and Lenny White on drums -- lands at Freedom Hill on June 21. Meanwhile, Concord is releasing "The Anthology" (** out of four stars, in stores Tuesday), a two-CD compilation that collects most of the music issued on the band's four original Polydor and Columbia LPs from 1973-76. Return to Forever specialized in souped-up jazz-rock with a high-gloss finish that emphasized pyrotechnic speed, ear-crunching volume and Corea's suite-like compositions with their consciousness-raising aura and high-concept titles like "Space Circus," "Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy" and "The Romantic Warrior." The music was a cornerstone of fusion's second wave, as the initial exploratory abstraction morphed into more heavily grounded and populist styles. Purists blanched, but Return to Forever had a huge following with progressive rock audiences, who dug the high-wattage jamming, and younger musicians, especially products of nascent jazz education programs, who absorbed the players' technical wizardry, cutting-edge technology and unified concept. Fans will be heartened to know that Concord's exemplary remastering gives these records greater sonic clarity than ever. However, as someone with the utmost admiration for Corea's innovative straight-ahead jazz, I find Return to Forever to be a textbook of rococo excess and empty virtuosity. The issue is not fusion. Rock rhythms, synthesizers and electric guitars are not, by themselves, the enemy. But the music's hyperactivity quickly turns oppressive and claustrophobic. The guitar playing also leaves me cold. Both Bill Connors, who played on the first LP, "Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy," and Di Meola, who appeared on the others, prefer relentless speed, distortion and volume rather than expressive phrasing, melodic shape and storytelling. Corea's improvisations are full of surprise, but his Achilles' heel can be an easy glibness and weakness for collage -- qualities reinforced by Return to Forever's arena-rock vibe and the twitching foundation created by Clarke's scampering bass and White's bashing drums. On the other hand, Corea's ambitious works like "Song to the Pharaoh King" and "Celebration Suite Part I & II," with their extended forms, evolving textures and multi-thematic ideas, sound even more prescient today in their expansive view of small-group composition. Bob Belden's insightful liner notes identify similarities with classical tone poems and concertos. He even finds a parallel between Alban Berg's "Wozzeck" and Return to Forever's "Romantic Warrior." It's a grandiose claim, but grandiosity is a big part of what this music was about. Edited June 10, 2008 by Mark Stryker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Gotta agree with Guy (though I don't think ALL of the RTF cataloge is a "parody"). If you didn't like Mahavishnu, then you won't like RTF. I think Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy is my favorite album of this line-up, although I realize Di Meola wasn't on that record. Yes - Hymn is the best one from the electric RtF and quite a good album. "Where Have I Known You Before" is not bad either, but really a pale shadow of the "real thing". (Agreed that "Song to the Pharaoh Kings" or whatever the closing tune on that album does kick some butt.) Romantic Warrior I can't get into. The whole thing just oozes cheese. Though Lenny White's tune is nice as is the first long Corea track. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockefeller center Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 (edited) Hmm... guess I won't care much for them then. Are they any worse than Weather Report? Why don't you just go to amazon.com or allmusic.com and listen to samples? Edited June 10, 2008 by rockefeller center Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 I thought "original" RTF was the amazing ECM album's line-up (Farrell, Clarke, Airto, plus Flora Purim) - still a fresh and lovely album, in my opinion. Never cared for later RTF, though I'm growing to like WR quite a bit (early WR, that is - just about the albums mentioned above are what I own so far). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 I really enjoyed the first RTF at the time, especially after seeing them live. Like UBU I still like listening to it, it's got a special sort of charm. Didn't care too much for the second album. Hated the electric RTF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe G Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 "worse than Weather Report" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 I never bought any RTF albums and only have a vague negative memory of their music, so I might have gone and attended the concert anyway (due to a dearth of live jazz) but for excessive ticket prices, and receiving an invitation similar to this: The Beyond Forever Experience! Return to Forever is coming to the US, Canada and Europe and www.Return2Forever.com is your source for VIP packages that add to your Return to Forever concert experience. What are we offering? How about a meet and greet with the band, a tour of the stage area, a pre-show party, and some tour merchandise? Show off your new Return to Forever Tour T-shirt from your merchandise package. No matter what, you are sure to have the time of your life in San Francisco with RTF! PLEASE NOTE: THERE IS NO TICKET TO THE SHOW INCLUDED IN THIS PACKAGE - YOU MUST PURCHASE A TICKET FROM ANOTHER SOURCE. To buy tickets for this date from Ticketmaster, click HERE This package includes: 1.) A Meet and Greet with band member(s). Details on the Meet and Greet will be sent to you via email about 10 days before the show. 2.) A Tour of the Stage Area. This Tour is conducted by a Return2Forever.com representative who is knowledgeable about RTF, what it takes to put on a show, and other tour info. Fans will get to experience what goes on behind the scenes at a Return to Forever show and get a new kind of Return to Forever experience. 3.) Access to the pre-show party and the sound check. 4.) An EXCLUSIVE Return to Forever merchandise package that will be mailed to the customer separately. This package includes: an exclusive Return to Forever tour t-shirt, a $40 gift card to the online store, a lanyard and collectible Return to Forever laminate that should get you early access to the merchandise booth. Please be sure to choose your t-shirt size(s) when ordering your package(s). IMPORTANT NOTES, PLEASE READ! • The cost of this package is USD $299. • There is a non-refundable $15 processing and handling fee included in your cost through www.Return2Forever.com, if a show is cancelled and your merchandise has NOT shipped. If your merchandise is shipped at the time of cancellation, there is a non-refundable $69 fee ($59 for processing/merch and $10 shipping). • Packages are non-refundable and non-transferable. •Merchandise will be shipped directly to the address that you provide to us at the point of purchase. We will make every effort to deliver your merchandise prior to the date of the show. •You will receive an itinerary about 10 days before the show with all of the details. • Merchandise contents subject to change based on availability. Please email any special requests to customerservice@Return2Forever.com Please read the RTF Ticket Policies here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Never thought too much about the electric (or beyond) RTF. A few good jams, and great players in Corea & Clarke (Lenny White...fine elsewhere, just not here), but...no. And this is from somebody, mind you, who was not at all turned off by a lot of the funk/fusion music being made at the time. Mahavishnu, fine, WR, great (timeless, as it's truning out...), Herbie/Headhunters, ditto, but RTF? Too Wanky-Wonky. Plus, I just read recently, Chick is just now "discovering" The Beatles. Literally. Now, how the hell you gonna "communicate" in a "rock-influenced" milieu in and around 1973-74 and not know shit about The Beatles, even if it's to operate in a post-Beatles world? Sounds kinda phony baloney to me. I mean, Herbie was hearing Marvin & Stevie and was open about it, McLaughlin & them cats was all up on the UK scene of several angles, Wayne & Joe were so not dealing with it like that anyways, and they all made some hip shit. Chick had the most blatantly "rock star vibe" band of the bunch, but apparently didn't know shit about the world he was pretending to, and thus the lack of naturalness and grace in the overwhelming bulk of his/their work. No, I think the guy just flipped out on his Inner Dork and never looked back until a lot later in the decade, and then only for fits and spurts. He was damn luck to have Stanley Clarke, that's all I can say, although I'm not sure that the opposite holds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rostasi Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Saw them during the "...Seventh Galaxy" tour. They were opening for Bachman-Turner Overdrive - incredible to think of that now. My friend Corky and I just walked backstage to meet them and it was a complete breeze to do so. Music chit-chat followed by helping with loading their truck (suckers!) and even an offer of a ride home afterwards (which we didn't take because we had someone already waiting for us) When the next LP, "Where Have I Known You Before," came out I noticed our names on the back of it and wondered...still wondering today! The music continued downhill from there with that pixie-ass crap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 The music continued downhill from there with that pixie-ass crap... Notice how Al and Stanley never seem to get mentioned outside of guitar magazines? It's like they never really made much of an impact on the Jazz world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 The music continued downhill from there with that pixie-ass crap... Notice how Al and Stanley never seem to get mentioned outside of guitar magazines? It's like they never really made much of an impact on the Jazz world... Al's impact is in the world of sexy album covers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Remember the time he wrote a letter to DownBeat or JazzIz complaining about a review of one of his albums? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trane_fanatic Posted June 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 (edited) Hmm... guess I won't care much for them then. Are they any worse than Weather Report? Why don't you just go to amazon.com or allmusic.com and listen to samples? Ah, I could always listen to muddy 30-second sound clips or get more informed opinions from the esteemed O-Board members here. Edited June 10, 2008 by trane_fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trane_fanatic Posted June 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 (edited) I never bought any RTF albums and only have a vague negative memory of their music, so I might have gone and attended the concert anyway (due to a dearth of live jazz) but for excessive ticket prices, and receiving an invitation similar to this: The Beyond Forever Experience! Return to Forever is coming to the US, Canada and Europe and www.Return2Forever.com is your source for VIP packages that add to your Return to Forever concert experience. What are we offering? How about a meet and greet with the band, a tour of the stage area, a pre-show party, and some tour merchandise? Show off your new Return to Forever Tour T-shirt from your merchandise package. No matter what, you are sure to have the time of your life in San Francisco with RTF! PLEASE NOTE: THERE IS NO TICKET TO THE SHOW INCLUDED IN THIS PACKAGE - YOU MUST PURCHASE A TICKET FROM ANOTHER SOURCE. To buy tickets for this date from Ticketmaster, click HERE This package includes: 1.) A Meet and Greet with band member(s). Details on the Meet and Greet will be sent to you via email about 10 days before the show. 2.) A Tour of the Stage Area. This Tour is conducted by a Return2Forever.com representative who is knowledgeable about RTF, what it takes to put on a show, and other tour info. Fans will get to experience what goes on behind the scenes at a Return to Forever show and get a new kind of Return to Forever experience. 3.) Access to the pre-show party and the sound check. 4.) An EXCLUSIVE Return to Forever merchandise package that will be mailed to the customer separately. This package includes: an exclusive Return to Forever tour t-shirt, a $40 gift card to the online store, a lanyard and collectible Return to Forever laminate that should get you early access to the merchandise booth. Please be sure to choose your t-shirt size(s) when ordering your package(s). IMPORTANT NOTES, PLEASE READ! • The cost of this package is USD $299. • There is a non-refundable $15 processing and handling fee included in your cost through www.Return2Forever.com, if a show is cancelled and your merchandise has NOT shipped. If your merchandise is shipped at the time of cancellation, there is a non-refundable $69 fee ($59 for processing/merch and $10 shipping). • Packages are non-refundable and non-transferable. •Merchandise will be shipped directly to the address that you provide to us at the point of purchase. We will make every effort to deliver your merchandise prior to the date of the show. •You will receive an itinerary about 10 days before the show with all of the details. • Merchandise contents subject to change based on availability. Please email any special requests to customerservice@Return2Forever.com Please read the RTF Ticket Policies here. Yea, I know. They have at least two of those awesome packages on their website too. http://www.return2forever.com/index.cfm/pk...0167/pid/400145 The only question is: Do you want the "Forever VIP" Experience or the "Beyond Forever" Experience? That collectible plastic laminate is gonna fetch big bucks on eBay someday. Edited June 10, 2008 by trane_fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trane_fanatic Posted June 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 "worse than Weather Report" I dunno, at times, I can't believe this is really one of Wayne Shorter's projects. Some tracks heavily border on smooth jazz-lite. Heard all the raves, went to Tower back in the day and was surprised by how unappealing Heavy Weather was, at least, to these ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trane_fanatic Posted June 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 • There is a non-refundable $15 processing and handling fee included in your cost through www.Return2Forever.com, if a show is cancelled and your merchandise has NOT shipped. If your merchandise is shipped at the time of cancellation, there is a non-refundable $69 fee ($59 for processing/merch and $10 shipping). Whatta ripoff. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 The only question is: Do you want the "Forever VIP" Experience or the "Beyond Forever" Experience? That collectible plastic laminate is gonna fetch big bucks on eBay someday. That's a tough one--$149 for Forever, and $299 for Beyond Forever. But I would feel so inferior if I were only a Forever person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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