McCoy Tyner- Guitars

[Sundog]

Looks interesting...(Derek & McCoy do Coltrane?)

CDU Link

[Soul Stream]

Looked interesting until I saw Derek Trucks' name.... Not to be an elitist, but that's pretty heavy company for a duane allman-influeced slide player. Would have been nice to see any other number of guitarists...Peter Bernstein, Kenny Burrell, Kurt Rosenwinkel, Ed Cherry, ect. come to mind rounding out the bill

[7/4]

Trucks is a hell of a lot more than that.

this could be interesting...

[sal]

Trucks is a hell of a lot more than that.

this could be interesting...

I agree.

[Rooster_Ties]

As luck would have it, I just stumbled on these clips - totally by accident. Seemed to fit the topic of this thread...

George Benson w/ McCoy Tyner -- 'Round Midnight

[Joe G]

I might check it out, what the heck.

[HolyStitt]

Thanks for the information.

I noticed that McCoy and Marc Ribot were playing Yoshi's in November, which kind of surprised me. Now it all makes sense.

[Sundog]

As luck would have it, I just stumbled on these clips - totally by accident. Seemed to fit the topic of this thread...

George Benson w/ McCoy Tyner -- 'Round Midnight

Some good stuff! Avery Sharpe holds things down nicely on bass.

[Sundog]

Looked interesting until I saw Derek Trucks' name.... Not to be an elitist, but that's pretty heavy company for a duane allman-influeced slide player...

Couldn't help but reminded of a recent statement by Pat Metheny in Guitar Player magazine when he was asked to give advice to aspiring guitarists. Pat's reply: "Aways try to be the worst player in every band you are in"

P.S. Maybe I'm naive, but it's entirely possible that McCoy actually wanted to play with Derek and the other guitarists. That's good enough for me. I've been on a major McCoy Tyner kick for the last few months; and I've purposely listened to very little Derek for the better part of a year. For me, this release will be the perfect reintroduction into his work.

[randyhersom]

Trucks is big Sun Ra fan in addition to being second generation Southern Rock royalty. More early McCoy with guitar would include Ted Dunbar on Asante and John Abercrombie on 4x4. I can't remember the track, but Dunbar plays a great little funk riff on one Asante track.

And BTW dissing Duane Allman does not impress me. The Allman Brothers Live at Fillmore can hang with 'trane on my shelves anytime. Unenlightened purism which Coltrane himself would not approve of.

[randyhersom]

Label listed as McCoy Tyner Music. Wonder if Telarc is distributing or just the ex-label.

[Soul Stream]

Trucks is big Sun Ra fan in addition to being second generation Southern Rock royalty. More early McCoy with guitar would include Ted Dunbar on Asante and John Abercrombie on 4x4. I can't remember the track, but Dunbar plays a great little funk riff on one Asante track.

And BTW dissing Duane Allman does not impress me. The Allman Brothers Live at Fillmore can hang with 'trane on my shelves anytime. Unenlightened purism which Coltrane himself would not approve of.

Just seems like a marketing gimmick to me...maybe not, but McCoy asked for him...kinda think that's a longshot. I saw Trucks on a BET Jazz Studio Jams with all straightahead jazz players. Needless to say they didn't play standards. Nothing wrong with that, and am sure Trane himself sould have enjoyed playing the blues or an open ended modal vamp with him. I wouldn't consider my stance as Unenlightened Purism, Ted Dunbar is a great jazz guitarist. Buddy Guy could do a track with McCoy...they're both great...just not sure what the point would be. Allman Brothers at the Fillmore is a classic, Duane Allman is one of the great rock guitarists.... They do this sort of thing in the blues field too all the time, genre-mashing for money. I don't think it's for musical reasons is my point.

[jlhoots]

I'm less interested in Bela Fleck than Derek Trucks.

[7/4]

I'm less interested in Bela Fleck than Derek Trucks.

I agree!

[Aggie87]

Could be interesting. I wonder if there are any guitar duet type tracks (ala Bass Desires w/Sco & Frisell), or if they're all quartet tracks.

I'd also be more interested in Trucks than Fleck in general (reversing the backhanded comment LOL). Does Fleck actually play guitar on this, as opposed to banjo?

Edited September 18, 2008 by Aggie87

[jazzbo]

I'll pass.

[Bluerein]

In fact they are all Bass Desires type tracks. McCoy is only on the cover for this cd............

[AllenLowe]

don't want to get into a fight here, but I always disliked the Allman Brothers band - another group of '60s guys in search of modality but not quite sure how to find it; long, well-meant jams that go nowhere because they confuse scales with ideas - even Bloomfield fell victim to this, not to mention Garcia - all are fine guitarists who, like Allman, never really "got" jazz - no shame in that, they just shoulda realized it befire going

.......on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and - on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and

[Big Al]

another group of '60s guys in search of modality but not quite sure how to find it; long, well-meant jams that go nowhere because they confuse scales with ideas - even Bloomfield fell victim to this, not to mention Garcia - all are fine guitarists who, like Allman, never really "got" jazz - no shame in that, they just shoulda realized it befire going

Can't really agree or disagree with that, not knowing anything about modes & scales, but I always felt the Allmans were more listenable than everyone else in their attempts at "modality." i.e. I can listen to the whole hour of "Whipping Post/Mountain Jam" from Fillmore and never lose interest; can't say the same thing about anything by the Dead (assuming the two are even comparable in this case).

[WD45]

don't want to get into a fight here, but I always disliked the Allman Brothers band - another group of '60s guys in search of modality but not quite sure how to find it; long, well-meant jams that go nowhere because they confuse scales with ideas - even Bloomfield fell victim to this, not to mention Garcia - all are fine guitarists who, like Allman, never really "got" jazz - no shame in that, they just shoulda realized it befire going

.......on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and - on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and

That is my favorite part, though. I could [and often do] listen to Jerry Garcia play C-Maj scale variations on Dark Star in half-hour bursts. When the 25 minutes of Dark Star on Live/Dead is over, I am left wanting to hear more. Every time.

Duane Allman, Derek Trucks, Jerry Garcia, et al may not have gotten "jazz" and that's fine -- I probably would find them less interesting if they weren't doing their "own" thing. [However limited you might find it.]

[clifford_thornton]

I hear you.

Live/Dead is fantastic, kind of Amon Duul-y in a way.

Allman Brothers kinda bore me. This Tyner disc would bore me, I'm sure, if I ever listened to it - which I won't.

Edited September 18, 2008 by clifford_thornton

[CJ Shearn]

I ordered it along with the new Kenny Garrett and KOB 50th anniversary

[Guest Bill Barton]

I've listened to Guitars a few times and my first impressions are mainly positive. The tracks with Scofield are excellent, especially "Mr. P.C." And I love the ones with Frisell!

Reviews have been mixed on the ones with Ribot. Both Jae Sinnett and Mike Schwartz on the Jazz Programmers List have dissed the version of "Passion Dance."

Here's Jae's original post and my response:

"Curious as to what folks think of this new McCoy Tyner release with the guitar players. For me it's hit and miss. Scofield and Frisell sound great and they fit. Bela sounds okay. Don't have a clue as to what Marc Ribot is doing. Does he? In my view he almost ruins this CD. On the improvisational tracks it's okay because he doesn't have to prove he knows what he is doing. On 'Passion Dance' it's almost unbearable to listen to him. I bypassed the third track he played on. Considering there are only three or four changes in 'Passion' and is played with a swinging feel he apparently has little understanding of tonal center or how to swing and simply play in time. It's like he's in a room by himself playing by himself...detached from everything. I mean really...I love McCoy but that is stunningly bad. Thankfully Jack and Ron sound great and keep things together."

Jae Sinnett - WHRV-FM, 89.5, Norfolk, VA

"Well, everyone hears things differently, that's for sure. My copy of the discs arrived this afternoon and I was listening to it as I read this post. I completely and empahatically disagree. For my taste, Ribot sounds fine. And the producers deserve kudos for putting that somewhat 'out' free improv joining Ribot and McCoy at the beginning of the CD. It's good to hear and see Tyner stretching; the man doesn't stand still. The CD and DVD feature - for me - some of the most adventurous playing he's done recently that's been captured on recordings."

Bill Barton - KBCS-FM, 91.3, Bellevue-Seattle, WA

And here's the response to that dialogue from Mike Schwartz:

"I'd have to say that 'Guitars' is pretty much all 'hit' and little 'miss.' The tune Jae points towards is the one clunker; Ribot bent on 'being edgy' at all cost.....his other contributions just fine, really. Watching the DVD first was exhilarating to me and gave insight to how some of the sessions went. The first Bela Fleck composition (on the CD) which is in the DVD, is magnificent! It's Bela's tune, but sounds like a McCoy original........McCoy LOVED it, and on the DVD Jack simply calls out 'Next' because the results were so fine, and Tyner, grinning from ear to ear says '....it's so musical.'

After McCoy's well known yet seemingly highly secret health problems over the last 2-3 years, it's wonderful to me to witness his continued adaptation to his senior years. He had a kind of what I'd like to call short period of limbo, where he was no longer 'able to leap tall buildings with a single bound. 'Guitars' overall, IMO, is a fantastic document of one of our Grand Master aging gracefully."

Mike Schwartz/KSJS

Now, Jae Sinnett is a musician and has technical bones to pick with Ribot's approach. I come from a completely intuitive place and have what might be referred to as "untrained ears." After listening to "Passion Dance" a few more times it still reaches me on a visceral level, and I certainly wouldn't call it a "clunker." But WTFDIK?

I haven't warmed to the Fleck tracks yet. They bore me so far and I find the combination of instrumental sounds a little off-putting. Perhaps as time passes my opinion will change.

The tracks with Trucks are thoroughly enjoyable and inhabit their own particular bluesy "space." Don't be put off by his reputation and/or background. I'd venture to say that Guitars is not a record for jazz snobs. You'll have to remodel the pigeonholes a bit...

[Chuck Nessa]

Have not bought a Tyner date since the '70s. Not a 'dis', just the trurh. Liked the big band at the Chicago fest a couple of years ago - sounded like a real band.

[Hot Ptah]

Have not bought a Tyner date since the '70s. Not a 'dis', just the trurh. Liked the big band at the Chicago fest a couple of years ago - sounded like a real band.

You've missed some good albums, and some mediocre ones (by Tyner standards). But not all have been mediocre since the 1970s.