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Dan,

Well the timing couldn't be worse, that's for sure. I think if Pettite had made the call a couple of days ago, Bartolo Colon might still have been in play. I'm very surprised that the Yanks didn't counter the Astros' offer with one of their own that he couldn't refuse. I'm thinking he must've told them not to bother, that playing close to his home and family was more important than money. There's no doubt he'll be missed. While he'd stub his toe every now and then in the post-season, there hasn't been a more reliable guy during this run than him.

I agree with you about Brown. No one better when he's healthy, but how many years has it been since he's pitched a whole season without being on the DL? Given the slim pitching pickin's that remain on the table, though, he's probably the cream of the crop.

I'm guessing The Boss is not a very happy camper today.

Up over and out.

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Well, another early Xmas present for Dan. At lunchtime, I heard on WFAN that Petitt's agent at the last minute called the Yanks and asked for 4 years, $52 million but the Yanks said no. It should have never come to that with a guy who's in the prime and won over 20 games. Decline and fall is starting to set in. If you're a Yankee fan, you gotta be ticked.

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You're right, I'm a Yankee fan and I'm disgusted by this turn of events. Pettitte is a very good pticher who frequently came up big in crucial games. He's not a whine/moaner type(like Sheffield), just give him the ball and he pitches well. The Yankees also will now have a rotation without a lefty pitcher(I can't count Wells until he's actually pitching, with back surgery, big gut, 40 years old, etc.), which confers an advantage to visiting teams in Yankee Stadium.

Decline? Yes, Steinbrenner is running the show again. WE NEED ANOTHER SUSPENSION OF STEINBRENNER! BUD SELIG, ARE YOU LISTENING?

Kevin Brown is a very good pitcher when healthy- that's the sticking point with him, he visits the DL way too often and is now 39- YIKES!

Edited by PHILLYQ
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The Dodgers are geeting hosed on this one but there are some positives. One dumping Brown's salary can create more wiggle room for LA to get some offensive help. Two the Dodgers have some good pitchers coming up through the system. Kevin Brown is a great pitcher and a warrior but if he gets hurt he's usually down for awhile and at 39 I imagine the rehab just gets tougher.

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Yeah, replacing Pettite with Kevin Brown loses them what, 7 years, in terms of an ace pitcher's age? I haven't heard the details of what went down w/Pettite yet, but a big blow... And this rampage to acquire aging, overpriced, past-their-prime stars does remind me of the Boss's track record during the 80's and early 90's... 2004 could be your year indeed, Dan. One thing I'm betting on: it will definitely be Joe Torre's last. Surely he'll be ready to retire. Will Willie Randolph then get the nod?

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You heard it here first:

If the Yanks don't perform, Torre will be fired before the All-Star break. (Think about it-he's already said he doesn't know if he wants to return, this is his last year otherwise-Steinbrenner will make the move early if the team isn't where its supposed to be ... just like old times! :g

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Rob Neyer is not as smart as he thinks he is(Pettite, is not a great pitcher? :o )

But he still makes some good points....

By Rob Neyer

ESPN.com

Excuse me for not penciling the Yankees in for second place, or even (egad) third.

Yes, they've lost Andy Pettitte. No, they've not yet signed Gary Sheffield or traded for Kevin Brown.

But let's assume for a moment that the Yankees do acquire Kevin Brown. This would essentially mean that Brown and Javier Vazquez have replaced Pettitte and Roger Clemens ... and isn't this a good thing? (For the Yankees, I mean.)

Kevin Brown was second in the NL with a 2.39 ERA last season.

Don't get me wrong. Clemens and Pettitte both pitched good baseball last season. Just not as good as Vazquez and Brown. And while Brown isn't the most durable of pitchers, he's younger than Clemens, and of course Vazquez is younger than Pettitte.

Let's look at what these guys did in 2003, just innings and ERA+ (which is ERA, relative to the league and adjusted for the pitcher's home ballpark) ...

Innings ERA+

Clemens 212 112

Pettitte 208 109

Brown 211 169

Vazquez 231 153

Granted, the past doesn't perfectly predict the future, but if Brown and Vazquez are healthy in 2004, they'll represent a significant upgrade from Clemens and Pettitte, whose impressive won-lost records benefited from the Yankees' potent lineup.

Could a Yankees rotation that includes Brown stack up with the Red Sox's new Schilling-ful squad? You'd better believe it. Mussina/Vazquez/Brown is just as good as Martinez/Schilling/Lowe, and I suspect most clubs would take Jose Contreras over Tim Wakefield in the fourth slot.

It's true, as the rosters stand right now, the Red Sox would have to be considered the favorites in 2004. But the way things stand now isn't the way they'll stand in March, at which point I suspect the Yankees will have muscled their way back to the top of the forecasted standings.

How will Andy Pettitte fare in Houston? He'll presumably enjoy his family life there, but his baseball life is going to suffer. His (relative) run support will suffer, because while the Astros have a good offense, the Yankees had a great one (they led the AL in road scoring in 2003). And Pettitte's trading a home ballpark that's kind to left-handed pitchers for a home ballpark that's not (though he is a ground-ball pitcher, which will help).

Oswalt

And frankly, Pettitte's not a great pitcher. He was great in 1997 and excellent in 2002 (when he wasn't on the disabled list), but most years he's been merely good. Everyone seems to think the Astros are getting a No. 1 starter, but the reality is that Pettitte is the team's third-best starter, behind Roy Oswalt and Wade Miller.

Why do people think he's a No. 1 starter? Because Pettitte's spent his entire career pitching for the best baseball team in the world, which has meant 1) great run support, and 2) plenty of TV time in October.

Which isn't to say it's a terrible move for the Astros. There's nothing wrong with having a solid No. 3 starter, though $10.5 million per season seems like a lot to spend unless it's the Yankees or the Red Sox doing the spending (and of course, the Yankees offered even more money than the Astros did).

Let's put it this way: Mark Buehrle just signed a new three-year deal with the White Sox for roughly half the money Pettitte got ... and Buehrle's a better pitcher.

You don't believe it? Below are innings and ERA+ for both Buehrle and Pettitte

Buehrle 2001 2002 2003

Innings 221 239 230

ERA+ 140 129 108Pettitte 2001 2002 2003

Innings 201 135 208

ERA+ 112 134 109

Buehrle's better and he'll give more innings, at least if history's any sort of guide. And yet he's not making nearly as much money as Pettitte, merely because he happens to pitch for the wrong team.

We've come a long way, babies. But we still sometimes forget that when a pitcher has a good-but-not-great career ERA and a .656 career winning percentage, he probably had a lot of help along the way. The Astros are going to remember, but it's going to be a costly and painful memory.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor..._rob&id=1684191

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is it just me, or does this offseason seem hotter than previous ones? :tup

I guess everyone knows the The A-Rod talks have heated up again, I just can't see how he can stay in Texas now, or that Nomar won't demand a trade even if he doesn't somehow end up in Boston. Now that Tejada has signed with the O's, they seem to be hot on getting I-Rod, (Who thought that that was going to be a huge deal last year for Florida?) and Vladimir Guerrero! Damn! :blink: Someone break up the AL East!

I don't know if you heard,(Or care! ;) ) but the Braves made a deal, getting the frequently injured (never had 500 AB in a season) J.D. Drew from St. Louis, and all they had to do was give up a decent left handed reliver (Ray King) a young Right hander (Jason Marquis) and the stud starter in the Minors, 6 foot 9 Adam Wainright ! He throws hard, so we had to get rid of him like we did with Millwood, and Jason Schmidt.

Oh, the Braves fans just love this trade, right up there with Kevin Millwood for the back up catcher trade last year.

here are a few fans of John Schuerholz....

From ajc.com

A few more trades like this one, John, and you will need to change your initials from JS to BS.

I think JD and a good hitting first baseman will be an excellent replacement for Shef.

Great job, JS! You traded away the next Randy Johnson.

J.D. Drew being on the Braves wish list. I just wished they hadn't gotten him.

Even in Drew's dreams, he'll never have a season like Sheff had last year. However, I'll take a great attitude like Drew over a playoff non-factor like Sheff every time.

Do we need to take up a collection to get the Braves back in the game?

Let's see. Oft-injured J. D. Drew and Eli Marrero, a backup catcher/utility guy, for Ray King (YES!), Jason Marquis (uh. . . ), and Adam Wainright (NO!). Sorry, J.S., you gave up way too much with Wainright.

Will someone please explain why you trade three reasonably good pitchers for a backup catcher and a part-time outfielder who, if he does have a breakout season, will immediately be eligible for arbitration and/or free agency.

AOL has almost finished the demolition of the the Braves and Schuerholz is doing their dirty work.

John Thomson and J.D. Drew are replacements for Greg Maddux and Gary Sheffield? The Braves are now a third place team at best.

I can't beleive that we expect J.D. "on the disabled list by June and out for the season by August" Drew to replace Gary Sheffield.

The Braves, Falcons and Hawks prove one thing to be true: Atlanta is the armpit of the sports world.

Concerning the J.D. Drew trade: Why do I have the feeling that we just traded "Josh Beckett" for "Mike Kelley." This trade could be as famous in Atlanta as the John Smoltz trade, but for the wrong reasons.

It would not matter if we sold out Turner Field every game, AOL would just pocket the money and the Braves would still be broke.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Holy smokin' Rockets, Batman!

AP Source: Clemens shuns retirement to join Astros

By RONALD BLUM, AP Sports Writer

January 12, 2004

Roger Clemens is pushing back his retirement, agreeing to a one-year contract with the Houston Astros, a baseball source told The Associated Press on Monday.

The six-time Cy Young Award winner had said for more than a year that he planned to quit after pitching last season for the New York Yankees.

But he was persuaded to join the Astros, his hometown team, after close friend and former Yankees teammate Andy Pettitte signed with Houston last month.

The Astros called a news conference for Monday. Clemens agreed to a contract Sunday, the source said on condition of anonymity.

Clemens, 41, was 17-9 with a 3.91 ERA last season, his fifth with the Yankees. He spent his first 13 seasons in Boston, then went to Toronto for two years before moving on to New York, where he won World Series titles in 1999 and 2000.

His 310-160 record puts him 17th on the career wins list, and his 4,099 strikeouts place him third behind Nolan Ryan (5,714) and Steve Carlton (4,136).

Clemens' last appearance for the Yankees was a memorable one, in Game 4 of the World Series against the Florida Marlins. Flashbulbs popped repeatedly as fans photographed what they thought would be his final pitches.

Fifty friends and family members flew to Miami to watch the game; Clemens didn't get a decision as the Yankees lost to Florida 4-3 in 12 innings. Even the Marlins' players applauded after Clemens struck out Luis Castillo in what was thought to be his final major league pitch.

``So many people were using flash photography, it was quite amazing,'' Clemens said then. ``I think everybody started understanding that it was going to be my last inning, my last hitter, my last pitch.''

Clemens thought about pitching for the United States at the 2004 Olympics, but the Americans were eliminated in qualifying in November.

Clemens' outlook on retirement started to change Dec. 11, when left-hander Pettitte -- who also lives in the Houston area -- agreed to a $31.5 million, three-year contract with the Astros.

Houston, which has never been to a World Series, will head to spring training with a projected starting rotation that includes Clemens, Pettitte, Roy Oswalt and Wade Miller.

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Oh, did you guys hear that Vlad signed with the Angels??? Espn just said Guerrero had signed, and I thought, Pedro is going to be a coach??? Angels got him "fairly" cheap, (5 years, 70 mil) he is certainly half the player A-Rod is....Oakland is in trouble this year! If only there was something to be excited about with the braves this year! :( Well, time to be a turncoat, and root for the Cubbies again! ^_^

Edited by BERIGAN
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Clemens going to the Astros is interesting- suppose there's a play at the plate, with Clemens trying to score against the Mets with Piazza catching? How will Clemens react to a high and tight pitch when at the plate? Just somethings to chew on until April...

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The Vlad signing seems to have the hand of the player's association all over it. The Mets offered three years guaranteed with two more if he reached 400 ABs average in the first three years. The total value of the package was about $2mil more than what the Angels offered, but was not guaranteed as the Angels offer was. The incentives were easily attainable, so it really was a guaranteed pact unless Vlad busted out a vertebrae or two. The rumors going around are that the players association is pressuring players to take the highest offer regardless of other factors. In Vlad's case, there are two other factors that enter into this equation. One, Vlad will be changing leagues. Perhaps that is not a big consideration, but he does have to learn a whole new set of pitchers and a somewhat different style of play. The second factor is how comfortable Vlad is where he plays. Vlad is from the Dominican Republic, and NYC has a large Dominican population, whereas CA has almost none. It would seem to me that the Met offer, when considering the whole picture, is a better deal for Vlad, so absent the rumors being true or his back being worse than anyone has told, I'm a little bit puzzled as to why he would sign with the Angels.

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Gawrssshh! :wub:

Spring training to open Valentine's Day

By The Associated Press

The four words that baseball fans long to hear each winter — "pitchers and catchers report" — mean that this year's spring training will start Feb. 14, when Tampa Bay's batterymen report to St. Petersburg, Fla. (Related item: Team-by-team reporting dates)

The Devil Rays open the season with a two-game series against the New Yankees in Tokyo on March 30-31 and are allowed to have their pitchers and catchers in camp early because of the Japan trip. Tampa Bay will start workouts Feb. 15 — four days ahead of the other teams.

New York decided not to start workouts early. Yankees pitchers and catchers will report to Tampa, on Feb. 17 and start workouts two days later, the commissioner's office said Tuesday.

Other teams planning to start workouts Feb. 19 include the Chicago Cubs, Cincinnati, Detroit, Los Angeles and Philadelphia.

The World Series champion Florida Marlins start reporting to Jupiter, Fla., on Feb. 22 and are the last team to start workouts, on Feb. 24.

After the Yankees-Devil Rays series, the next teams to start the season are Baltimore and Boston, who play at Camden Yards on Sunday night, April 4. Most other teams open April 5.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Mo Vaughn career is over -- Strip Clubs throughout America will dim lights in tribute. ;)

This guy is such a looser, why he never got in shape is beyond me. The Angels got nothing out of him, though, to give him a break, he did fall into a dugout in his first game. But still, he never seemed in too much of a hurry is go a gym as long as the strip clubs were open. What a waste.

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A great off-season for Yankee haters (too bad it's a injury, but still -- it's the Yankees).

Boone hurts knee, may miss season

By RONALD BLUM, AP Sports Writer

January 26, 2004

NEW YORK (AP) -- Yankees third baseman Aaron Boone injured his left knee playing basketball and may be out for the season.

Boone was hurt about a week ago and may have torn an anterior cruciate ligament. The extent of the injury will not be known until swelling subsides, and he has not yet been examined by Yankees' doctors.

If there is a complete tear, he would require reconstructive surgery that could sideline him until 2005.

``We are currently evaluating the extent of the injury and expect to solicit multiple opinions before providing a complete diagnosis,'' general manager Brian Cashman said Monday.

The Yankees do not have a backup third baseman with full-time experience. Enrique Wilson and newly signed Miguel Cairo are options to fill the spot, as is minor leaguer Drew Henson.

New York acquired Boone from Cincinnati on July 31, and his 11th-inning homer off Boston's Tim Wakefield in Game 7 of the AL championship series won the pennant for the Yankees.

He agreed Dec. 1 to a $5.75 million, one-year contract, and the contract contained language saying it would become nonguaranteed if he played basketball.

``Concerning his contract, I can confirm that there are certain prohibited activities, which include basketball,'' Cashman said.

Boone is eligible for free agency after next season, and if the Yankees successfully converted the deal to a nonguaranteed contract, they could release him and be responsible for only 30 days' termination pay, about $942,000.

The injury could create an opening for Henson, the former University of Michigan quarterback who has struggled in the Yankees' farm system.

Henson agreed to a $17 million, six-year contract with the Yankees in 2001. He hit .234 with 14 homers, 40 doubles and 78 RBIs at Triple-A Columbus this season. But he also struck out 122 times and made 28 errors at third base, and the trade for Boone signaled that New York did not think Henson would be ready for 2004.

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Too bad about Boone, he's a good guy, but damn dude that is a lot of money to risk!

Did everyone hear about Rafael Palmeiro signing with the O's?? If Javy Lopez has a good season, and Tejada has a typical year, they can really move up in the AL east....if the Yankees and the Red Sox move to the AL central! :rolleyes:

I have a feeling the east is going to feast on the weaker teams, Teams like the Twins just get weaker and weaker.....

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