Hot Stove League Thread

[Dan Gould]

With news like this, I think its time to open up the official MLB Hot Stove League Thread:

Red Sox Place Ramirez On Irrevocable Waivers

BOSTON -- The Boston Red Sox placed All-Star slugger Manny Ramirez on irrevocable waivers, The New York Times, the Boston Herald and the Providence Journal reported Thursday.

The move means any major league team can have Ramirez -- if it is willing to pay his salary. The outfielder has five years and $104 million remaining on a $160 million, eight-year contract. He is scheduled to make $20.5 million next season.

When contacted by The Associated Press, Red Sox spokesman Kevin Shea said: "The waiver procedure is a confidential procedure, and we're prohibited from commenting on it. We're not permitted to say whether a player is on or is not on waivers."

A phone message left by the AP for Ramirez's agent, Jeff Moorad, was not immediately returned.

Under the waivers, which exist for a 48-hour period that expires Friday, the Red Sox would not be able to counter would not be able to counter a claim by another team, thus losing Ramirez. In that case, the Red Sox would also not be responsible for the more than $95 million Ramirez is owed in remaining base salary, according to Providence Journal's report.

Even if another team does not claim Ramirez off the waivers, the Red Sox have essentially sent out a signal that they are willing to deal Ramirez, which could lead to future trade talks.

Ramirez hit .325 this year, one point behind teammate Bill Mueller for the AL batting title, and had 37 homers and 104 RBIs. The Red Sox won the wild card and advanced to AL championship series before losing to the New York Yankees in seven games.

The Journal reported that baseball sources told the paper on Wednesday night that the Yankees would be the team most likely to claim Ramirez. In the days since the Yankees' World Series loss to the Florida Marlins, owner George Steinbrenner has taken control of the team with the apparent attention to dramatically alter the roster.

Ramirez, who moved to New York from the Dominican Republic at age 13, told ESPN's Joe Morgan in late August of his childhood dreams to play in Yankee Stadium, where he has always hit well, with the Yankees. Ramirez also told Morgan that the Yankees had expressed interest in him after the 2000 season, when he was a free agent, but signed Mike Mussina instead.

While the Yankees appear the most likely of teams to make a move for Ramirez, there are other teams in need of a power-hitting outfielder that may consider the right-handed slugger. The Journal reported that the New York Mets, the Baltimore Orioles, and, though less likely, the Anaheim Angels and Los Angeles Dodgers may show interest.

The left fielder was placed on waivers just two days after Boston announced it would not bring back manager Grady Little, who led the team to 188 regular-season wins the past two years.

Ramirez is one of baseball's best hitters, but he often struggles in the outfield and on the bases.

He was benched by Little late this season after he missed a crucial series against the Yankees with a sore throat and fever, yet managed to pull himself out of bed to reminisce with New York infielder Enrique Wilson about their days in Cleveland.

Then Ramirez didn't show up for an appointment with the team doctor, and when he joined the club the next day he sat on the bench but said he was "too weak" to pinch-hit.

And in a game at Yankee Stadium in September, the absent-minded Ramirez tossed the ball into the stands after making a nice catch, thinking there were three outs when there were only two.

According to the Journal's report, those actions by Ramirez set off internal discussions by the club to deal him this off-season, even though the Red Sox would likely have to pay much of the remaining money owed Ramirez.

If no team claims Ramirez by the midnight deadline Friday, he will remain with the Red Sox, The Times reported in Thursday's editions.

Ramirez, 30, was signed as a free agent by former Boston general manager Dan Duquette in December 2000. Ramirez is scheduled to earn $20 million in 2005, $19 million in 2006, $18 million in 2007 and $20 million in 2008.

He also is due $4 million a year in deferred, no-interest salary from 2004-10, and he's still owed $10 million of his $16 million signing bonus, the Herald reported on its Web site.

Ramirez's club options for 2009 and 2010 are each worth $20 million.

In his past three seasons wtih the Red Sox, Ramirez has hit .300 each year, while hitting more than 30 homers and 100 RBI. He won the American League batting title in 2002 and has recorded 100 more RBI in eight of his nine seasons in the majors, playing for the Cleveland Indians during the first six.

*********************

Certainly a surprising move, I'd heard that the Sox might try to deal Manny but I figured it wouldn't happen because what's the point of paying 10 or 12 million dollars of his salary so he can play somewhere else? Even as overpriced as he is, having signed at the top of the market, Manny has to be better playing for the Sox than playing for a rival. And now, for taking on his salary, he could very well end up in the Bronx even ...

But I think there's some logical method behind their madness:

The Sox have Pedro, Lowe, Varitek, Nomar and Trot Nixon all becoming free agents after next year. Clear 100 million dollars owed to Manny off the books, and who knows? Maybe four of those five can be resigned, which is a much better situation than the likelihood that two or maybe three might be kept.

So what do you think?

And what do you think your own teams might/should do this offseason?

Will the Evil Empire cross the two hundred million dollar threshold? Will the Marlins keep everyone on board? What do the Cubs need to do to reach the promised land?

[ghost of miles]

In the days since the Yankees' World Series loss to the Florida Marlins, owner George Steinbrenner has taken control of the team with the apparent attention to dramatically alter the roster.

All I can say is that this makes me less than optimistic about 2004. In any case, nothing Steinbrenner does will make a difference regarding the Yanks' fate in the WS--he's better off doing all he can to help a Democrat win the presidency so that NY has a chance in 2005. Beware the curse of the GOP!

[Brad]

I think their necessity to sign the free agents you mentioned is probably the reason they did it. But I'm wondering if they did it to send a message to Manny. I mean they could have told teams, GM to GM, that they'd like to do a deal, without doing it so publicly. I mean how many teams are going to submit a waiver claim. The amount of teams who could do are very small. Whereas, if they trade him, they'll probably have to eat some salary.

Ghost, I think the Yankees probably need a lot. They're going to have to get a couple of starting pitchers, a third baseman (Boone's awful, in my book; I'd send him packing), a right fielder and relief help to get them to Mariano (of course, everybody needs that). There's been some talk around of moving Boone to second and signing Tejada or getting ARod for third and moving Soriano to right field or center field. They probably won't get ARod; the Rangers are looking for pitching and Yanks have none to give.

As for my team, the Mets, on second thought, let's not go there . Their needs are great and I don't see any quick fixesl, although Fred Wilpon says he wants to be a playoff contender next year. Yeah, and I'd love to play like Bird

[ghost of miles]

No takers for Manny:

Ramirez

I think the Yanks should give Boone a chance at third. But agreed about two pitchers, right field, and middle relief. Those positions needed to be dealt with whether or not NY won the Series, though; my anxiety now is that Steinbrenner will tear everything up. Much of their success in the mid-to-late 90s, IMO, stemmed from the two years he wasn't involved with the team. They were able to build in a way that they've rarely been able to do during the Boss's tenure.

[Soulstation1]

the tribe just signed a couple bums.....

[Dave James]

Yankee Central here.

Signing Donnie Baseball as the Yankee hitting coach can't hurt. I've heard so many personnel rumors it 's hard to keep track of them. For sure, signing Andy Petitte has to be a priority, but with the Astros dumping Billy Wagner's contract yesterday, it's going to make them more of a player. If the Yanks aren't able to resign Petitte, you can pretty much fit Bartolo Colon for a set of pinstripes.

I would not be surprised at all to see Soriano take a hike. Same with Nick Johnson...perhaps as a package to the Expos for pitching help. That moves Boone (who I'm not sold on either) to 2B. No way Drew Henson will ever be an everyday third sacker, so that means another move to fill the void at the hot corner. Perhaps the second coming of Mike Lowell? I've also heard that the Yanks will be pursuing either Vladimir Guererro or Gary Sheffield to play right field. That would be followed by swapping out Bernie and Matsui. Williams going to left and Matsui to center.

All you can say with absolute certainty is that this will be a fascinating off-season for Yankee lovers (and haters) everywhere.

Up over and out.

Up over and out.

[Dan Gould]

I believe Colon has already said he's not interested in the Yankees, though I might be wrong.

Trading Nick Johnson might end up being historically bad. In my opinion, Johnson is one of those scary-good players, a smooth hitter who shows tremendous patience and maturity and already a superior first baseman. To put Giambi out there on a daily basis, coming off of knee surgery? I don't think the braintrust is that foolish.

Soriano has a lot of upside despite his disastrous postseason and terrible defense, but Johnson is the guy to keep.

[Brad]

I thought Colon was close to signing with the White Sox or is that off now. Over in the NL, looks like the Phillies got a good deal. I have to laugh when a guy likes Drayton McLane says we have to cut back. Doesn't he own half of WalMarts? Owning them is like having a legal license to steal.

[ghost of miles]

Soriano has a lot of upside despite his disastrous postseason and terrible defense, but Johnson is the guy to keep.

Agree w/you on both counts, Dan. I've followed Johnson for a long time, and I think he's a keeper. Glad to see Mattingly back w/the Yanks in some onfield capacity as well. Hopefully he can draw some more fire out of the NY bats.

[BERIGAN]

Well, I think the Yankees would be nuts to not re-sign Wells . He won a big game against the Twins , had a 2.31 E.R.A. in playoffs(Clemons was 3.52) won 15 starts, and pitched 2 more innings 213 vs. 211 than Clemons. Yet, everyone wants Roger back, and to hell with him...because his back acted up during a start!

Give up Soriano???? Helll yeah!!! Let the braves let Sheffield go (Still a great player, but never does anything during the playoffs, and is 34, with 16 years of MLB ) and put Soriano in right! He is 25, and had one bad postseason. Remember when he hit an amazing splitter against Schilling for a homerun??? A pitch no human should be able to hit??? He's 25!!!! Did I mention that??? It is the New York factor that is causing this sort of talk. I have even read that they should get rid of Giambi, he is too old! Played with a bad knee for months, and now they want to get rid of him....and Boone, who did look pretty bad in the playoffs(except for the home run) I remember reading when he was traded that the players on the Reds said he was no regular player, he was true team player that made the whole team better...I don't think he could really put forth that aura just coming over in a trade...put him at second, Soriano in Right, Wells on the mound, for the Braves!

[Brad]

Not keeping Wells is a wise decision. He had back surgery the year he played with the White Sox and then with the recurrence of what happened in the World Series, it's a smart move. I have a bad back and it amazes me that athletes can play, despite having that problem.

To trade Soriano would be nuts. I've loved him ever since I first saw him. I've hoped that he'd get a bit more patient at the plate. Maybe he will. He's got loads of talent and unless you're getting something really good in return, don't do it. Regarding Johnson, the plan is to play him at first with Giambi the full time DH. I've got my doubts about Donnie. Sometimes the lesser know players who know how to teach are the successful coaches. But I'm glad to see Wille as the bench coach. He ought to be a manager. I've always been a fan of his, ever since the Yankees got him in a trade for the Pirates. I wish the Mets had looked at him last year.

Edited November 6, 2003 by Brad

[chris olivarez]

The Dodgers are in the process of an ownership change and assuming the sale goes through the new owners will have to make a decision on whether they will keep GM Dan Evans and manager Jim Tracy. The sooner they make these decisions the better because the Dodgers have a lot of work to do this offseason.

[PHILLYQ]

Yes, Soriano had an awful playoffs/World Series, but he's only 25 and many players don't hit their peak until they are 28 or so- cut the guy some slack already! Get him some solid coaching and get him to lay off that outside pitch, take some walks and he'll be fine.Trading Johnson would also be a mistake, as he is already a good hitter and will get better. Dan Gould was on the money in his assessment of Johnson.

We should also keep in mind that Karsay may be healthy for next season, and when healthy he is a very good reliever. If the Yanks keep Gabe White and have Karsay, it's possible that they may have the same quality setup tandem that they used to have with Nelson & Stanton.

Right field is not really as bad as one might think- a platoon of Delucci and Garcia could be very productive, and replacing them with Sheffield(35 with a crappy attitude) might be a very expensive mistake.

Boone is arbitration eligible, so the Yanks could sign him for one year and see what happens- there aren't really a lot of alternatives out there beyond Mike Lowell.

Whatever they do, the Yanks must sign Pettitte.

[Dan Gould]

You've got to be kidding if you think a platoon of the soon-to-be convicted felon Garcia and the other dude is the answer! I don't think Sheffield is a good choice either-he's getting up there in age, and who's the last right handed power hitter to excel at Yankee Stadium? But Vlad from Montreal is in his prime, and I am afraid George will throw gobs of cash at him. No way Garcia/Delluci are the starting right fielders come April.

[PHILLYQ]

Dan,

I agree with you that it's very unlikely that Garcia/Dellucci will be the rightfielders for the Yanks- Steinbrenner will probably throw gobs of money at Vladimir to get him to play in NY. That said, I looked at Garcia's stats for last year with the Yanks and he hit .305 with 6HRs & 21 RBIs in 151ABs. Dellucci did not fare well, but he had a bad ankle and switched leagues, so I would give him a mulligan for 2003. That's not bad production for that position, but Steinbrenner wants an Allstar at each position, so Garcia will be a spot duty guy and Dellucci will get splinters in his butt if he's not traded.

[Dan Gould]

Well we'll have to disagree on Garcia-I see him as very marginal as a major leaguer, he surely didn't tear it up before he came over from ... Toronto(?). Its not even so much that an all-star is required, but you ought to have bigger production out of the corner outfield spot, which you did before Mondesi's production fell off and he self-imploded. But Garcia is a fourth outfielder, at best.

Heck, IMO, he couldn't carry Roy White's jock, for heaven's sake!

[Brad]

From what I heard a couple of months ago, Vlad is not the kind of person who would thrive well in New York. He's a kind of small town kind of person, who likes to be left alone and doesn't want the media bugging him and that he didn't want to go to a big media market. If that's still true, New York would not seem to be the place for him. Of course, money has a way of changing your outlook.

[BFrank]

A whole week of GM meetings and only ONE trade. I guess that's the new era of baseball economics.

So, A.J. Pierzynski for Joe Nathan. Interesting trade. I think the Twins were trying to save on # of letters stitched to the back of uni's, myself.

Next to go: Doug Mientkiewicz.

[BERIGAN]

after Schilling said he would only go to NY, or Philly!!!!!

From ESPN....

The Arizona Diamondbacks are close to making a deal to trade pitcher Curt Schilling to Boston, pending approval from the pitcher himself, reports ESPN's Peter Gammons.

Despite earlier reports on a potential three-team trade between the Diamondbacks, Boston Red Sox and Milwaukee Brewers, Gammons reports that a deal to send Schilling to Boston will instead be handled between just Arizona and the Red Sox.

Boston would send left-handed pitcher Casey Fossum, lefty Jorge De La Rosa, righty Brandon Lyon and outfielder Michael Goss to Arizona for Schilling.

A potential three-way deal was initially discussed, a deal that would have sent Fossum and prospects to the Brewers, while first baseman Richie Sexson would have left Milwaukee for Arizona, with Schilling going to Boston.

Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein and owner John Henry plan to fly out to Arizona on Tuesday night to meet with Schilling, who has to waive his no-trade clause to make the deal happen.

Schilling also has said he wants a three-year extension -- his Arizona contract, which will pay him $12 million in 2004, runs out after the coming season

Edited November 25, 2003 by BERIGAN

[Dan Gould]

Please let it be true ... please let it be true ... please let it be true!

I'd put a starting rotation of Pedro, Schilling and Lowe against anyone!

[PHILLYQ]

Dan,

For right now it looks like a good deal for the Bosox- give up very little and get a very good pitcher in return. However, Schilling will not waive his no-trade clause without an extension, so that means three more years at $12 mil+ per year. What will he have left in two years when he's 39? Will he be successful switching leagues?

I'm a Yankee fan, and I'm glad that he won't be a Yankee. Steinbrenner was about ready to give up Soriano, Nick Johnson and a Steinbrenner grandchild to be named later for Schilling. If the Bosox get him, at least Steinbrenner can't make a bad deal for Schilling. Of course, there a re a lot of players out there...

Edited November 25, 2003 by PHILLYQ

[Dan Gould]

I understand your suspicions, but until his fluke injury this year, Schilling has been every bit a horse for quite a few years. I frankly don't see any reason why he couldn't sustain the performance that Clemens showed up to 40.

I'm also not convinced he'll break the bank on an extension. The Sox have other big financial problems to work through, so if he really insists on too much, they won't get it done. But he's said intelligent things about what kind of money he wants-that its money on top of money he can't spend-so I think a deal is do-able.

Intersting, isn't it, that the D-Backs wanted Soriano and JOhnson but are accepting far less from the Sox? I bet its fallout from the whole David Wells fiasco of two years ago-playing real hard ball with the Yanks.

And despite your misgivings, I do think this is a real shot across the bow of the SS Steinbrenner, a warning that we're always going to compete.

Anything that gives George a conniption is fine by me!

[BERIGAN]

How about those A-Rod for Manny rumors that will not die???? Would Nomar leave, or go to 2nd base?????

Gammons on ESPN....

Boston is bringing Keith Foulke in this week and trying to coax him into a three-year deal. There seems to be some feeling that the ice is beginning to melt on their Manny Ramirez-Alex Rodriguez offer, which would save the Rangers $96 million in present-day value. Ramirez, Rodriguez and the Red Sox want the deal, and the way the A-Rod-Buck Showalter-John Hart freeze is going, if they don't do the deal, they might not be there at this time next year.

One deal floating out there has Eric Milton going to Boston, but the

[PHILLYQ]

A-Rod playing 81 games at Fenwayper season, with the Green Monster lookin' him in the eye? We could be talking about mass quantities of homers!

[Dave James]

A couple of comments. The Twinkies made the Pierzynski deal because they think their #1 pick from a couple of years ago is ready for The Show. His name escapes me right now, but he's supposed to be the second coming of Johnny Bench. Not only does this move save them some money, but they don't think they're giving up anything behind the plate. Hopefully, for Twins fans everywhere, that won't turn out to be a pipedream.

I had not heard the Alex for Manny rumors, but from the Sox standpoint, that can only mean no more Nomar in Beantown. Still, I can't imagine them taking on what's left of Rodriguez' contract with all the other financial issues that are facing that team. Add to this the possiblity of trading for Curt Shilling and you're talking about spending at Steinbrennerian levels. How they can do this given the revenue limitations inherent in only being able to put 33,000 butts in the seats for 82 games is beyond me. I know their desparation to beat the Yanks is borderline psychotic, but this is beyond the pale. Then again, maybe as a Yankee fan, I'm just pooh- poohing the possiblity cuz I don't want any of this to happen.

Up over and out.