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Chronological Classics


Swinging Swede

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From a machine translation of that article:

All the Chronogical collection will be gradually available in ABEILLE Musique which is its new distributor. Soon, the 3000 titles will be downloadable directly on the site.

So I wonder if that is what this is, or if if they are being ripped off. Someone bothered to make new covers, although you will see that the same photos were used. "The Chrono[lo]gical" has also been changed to "In Chronology". I don't know what to think of this. We will need Jaffa's input to be sure, I suppose.

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Also, does anyone remember the shortlived pre-Classics label that had the same concept? These new covers made me think of it. One or two batches were released, and then it disappeared, and soon Classics came along. I haven't seen any of them in years, but I managed to find one cover on the web:

e68092ha6lq.jpg

Now compare it to the cover of this new "Complete Jazz Series":

51BalJ+cKEL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

A certain resemblance, don't you think?

I seem to remember that Fats Waller and Johnny Hodges were among the other names released.

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I just experimented by downloading a couple from amazon.co.uk. A Don Byas and this:

51szqxUPTXL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

Which looked like this:

clayton%204547.jpg

Seems too close a match to be a straight rip-off. So why are these things appearing without any publicity? The Jazz Chronological Classics label has a great reputation, is referenced frequently in Penguin. Seems really odd to have it filtering out in disguise.

As far as my tolerant ears are concerned it sounds fine, transfer-wise.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I noticed that Harry James 1946-1947 was one of World's Records' top sellers in 2008. I don't know how much that means, but at least something. Harry James is one of the names whose 78 era output I would like to see completed.

And Charlie Barnet of course. Known as having the blackest white big band his output can't stop at 1940. Blue Note released a CD of his 1949-50 Capitol recordings, but we dearly need his output before that.

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And Charlie Barnet of course. Known as having the blackest white big band his output can't stop at 1940. Blue Note released a CD of his 1949-50 Capitol recordings, but we dearly need his output before that.

I've been saying for a few years now that a Charlie Barnet reissue/remastering project seems overdue. I would love someone like Mosaic or HEP to take this on board :)

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I doubt it will ever come back at BN:s site, but here it is, starting with part 1:

Author Topic: Jazz Chronological Classics

Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted January 22, 2000 03:06 AM

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I've recently become aware of this astonishing label. For years I've seen their discs around but assumed they were cheapo-air shots etc. Recommendations on this board made me go out and buy a few and I have been hugely impressed.

I like the decision not to include alternate takes (these seem to be readily available on other labels for the enthusiast who enjoys listening at that close a level). The strictly chronological approach can produce some odd arrangements - Stardust Part 2 before Stardust Part 1 on the Mary Lou Williams 1944 disc for example. Soundwise, they've proved much better than I'd anticipated given some adverse references in the Penguin guide. Not up to the standard of some other labels but perfectly listenable (depending on the source discs of course).

I also picked up a catalogue the other day which is a gold mine in itself - full track list for discs, personel, indications of vocal tracks etc. If you are trying to follow the work of a particular artist its a marvellous way of getting a full track listing.

I'm sure there are many of you who know this series well. Any recommendations, warnings etc?

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philip

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Member # 405

posted January 22, 2000 05:46 AM

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Bev, like you I have been wary of this label because of the comments in the Penguin guide over transfer quality, etc. The Jimmie Lunceford 1930-34 disc was a disappointment.

The best known track, "White Heat", seems to have been transferred from an old electronically enhanced LP, but then I am a stickler for decent sound. The rest of that disc seems average, lacking the sparkle one expects from John RT Davies.

It is probably true to say that my perfectionism has reduced my access to earlier Jazz classics...

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Chris Albertson

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Member # 551

posted January 22, 2000 06:14 AM

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Apropos sound quality and collectors.

In the early Seventies, when I produced the complete Bessie Smith LP reissue for Columbia, engineer Larry Hiller and I spent 2 1/2 years working (5 nights a week) on the sound. It paid off, for (using a new method devised after much experimentation by Larry) we were able to virtually eliminate the surface noise.

This, we thought, ought to pleaee the collectors. We were wrong. A group of them, known as the Blues Mafia, wrote me a letter bemoaning the absence of surface noise! I guess you can't please everybody. Larry was very happy to receive his Grammy, however.

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Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted January 22, 2000 09:53 AM

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I can believe it, Chris! Your anecdote made me chuckle.

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Stefan Wood

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Member # 188

posted January 22, 2000 06:19 PM

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Bev, regarding the Classics, label, I agree that they are a good reissue company. I too just started to buy their label, starting with Don Byas and Howard McGhee, and am now working on Coleman Hawkins (thanks to the bboard group's suggestions). As much as I like reissues, there have been times where I hate the repetition of hearing two, three, even four versions of the same song in a row. So far, the Classics cds that I have bought are good sounding and have plently of tracks to fill up a cd. I wish they could have more extensive liner notes, but that's a minor issue. The best is that they have an extensive catalog of pre 1950 jazz artists -- enough to browse and explore. I'm looking at Charlie Shavers next.....

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Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted January 23, 2000 03:38 AM

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They have the advantage that they are so far down the line of cataloguing pre-1950. A few weeks back I bought the Frog McKinney Cotton Pickers discs. These are superb transfers

(like the JSP Armstrongs), better than Classics. However, its much harder to work a coherent collection together. Not being an audiophile I find the Classics discs fine.

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Jason Drake

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Member # 602

posted January 24, 2000 01:28 AM

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I have just started to get into this label's output. Like other's I thought it was just a cheapo deal (partly due to the covers, which it has to be said aren't that hot) but am now finding it a great source of pre-50's jazz.

I'm wondering if, as the 50 year copyright expiration time line passes through the years 1950, 1951 etc, they might even start to re-issue some of the classic BN stuff ? Once the copyright has expired do they need BN's approval to do this ?

The last time I was in Ray's Jazz Shop, in London, they had a complete wall display dedicated to the label and it seemed pretty well stocked. I think that Lon would have been in seventh heaven!

I was wondering how much this label costs in the US. The US online sites seem to charge high prices for them. If someone gives me an

example I'll compare it to some of the euro sites, which might prove cheaper even with shipping costs.

Bev, if you want a recommendation, I'm listening to #648 Horace Henderson 1940, which is v. good. He seems to have been overshadowed by his brother, Fletcher, which, on the evidence of this disc, is unfair. It swings very nicely.

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Lon Armstrong

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Member # 137

posted January 24, 2000 05:18 AM

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I think the covers are quite nice. Like 78 rpm labels, with a photo.

These cost retail in the stores about 15.99 US. You can usually get them for about 12.99 to 13.99.

Classics ALREADY have been reissuing Blue Note sides; check out the Ike Quebec disc, among others.

I find that the latest releases sound quite nice, compared to the earlier ones, but none are quite as good as the Davies transfers. Those McKinneys on Frog are da bomb.

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Swinging Swede

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Member # 197

posted January 24, 2000 05:33 AM

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Jason, Classics has already issued a lot of BN stuff, mostly from the pre-bop era, like Sidney Bechet, Edmond Hall, James P. Johnson etc., but also the McGhee/Navarro Boptet session from 1948 on "Howard McGhee 1948".

So you're right, there's nothing stopping them as the years roll on. If there is an unreissued session from the 50's you want to have, you just have to count the years that are left until Classics (or some other label) can reissue it. Of course they have no access to the BN vaults, so they can only take the best source available.

And yes, the Horace Henderson set is nice. Many have considered him to be more advanced both as pianist and as arranger, but he never gained his brother's fame. I've also read that he detested being known only for being Fletcher's brother. Don't forget the great session made in 1933 under his name, where he fronted his brother's orchestra. It's out on "Coleman Hawkins 1929-1934".

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John L

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Member # 123

posted January 24, 2000 08:27 AM

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Chronological Classics is doing a great service issuing these all of these sides, as the labels themselves do not show much interest.

Chris A: That's a great story about surface noise. Maybe it is the producers of the original records that feel so strongly. After all, they are getting so many composer royalties on blues compositions for which the surface noise was their only contribution!

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Jason Drake

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Member # 602

posted January 24, 2000 09:55 AM

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This label can be got cheaply (for EU residents) from www.boxman.com. They range from 7 usd to 11 usd, with shipping about 3-4 usd. The site is terribly laid out and it can take a while for them to ship, but at 7 usd per disc it seems worthwhile. For some reason, non-EU people are forced to use a different 'browser' and the prices seem to be higher. But it's so hard to use that I have to say I've run out of patience trying to do a proper price comparison.

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Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted January 24, 2000 10:41 AM

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I've used Boxman for a couple of Classics discs - they're a bit slow but deliver at good prices. I agree their layout is hopeless but given the prices worth persevering. I think I'll use them for the Spirituals to Swing discs in the near future.

The Classics discs covering Blue Note I look forward to are the ones that will cover the 'Amazing Bud Powell' sessions. I bought disc one very ealy in my collecting days and have found the alternate takes infuriating - 3 of Un Poco Loco! Now I appreciate that the real Bud fan and the jazz historian want the lot but I could have done with a one disc distillation. I've never bought the two Monk records for this reason although I have a Blue Note compilation that takes individual songs with no alternates.

I came across the Classics wall display in Rays a couple of weeks back, Jason, and walked out £70 poorer. It could have been much worse!

As I'm just starting to investigate Fletcher Henderson Horace may be a bit further off for me. I did pick up the first Teddy Wilson disc which has a mass of Billie Holiday vocals that are not on the Columbia vinyl I bought in the early 80s including two wonders in 'What a Little Moonlight Can Do' and 'Miss Brown to You.' I think I might pursue the Wilson and Holiday issues as a way of converting my Holidays to CD.

Any views on the Classics Nat Cole discs?

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Lon Armstrong

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Member # 137

posted January 24, 2000 11:06 AM

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The first few Cole discs in the series reissue material that I have found on cd nowhere else. . .After that I have lost interest in them, as I have all the material elsewhere (I am one of those with the Cole Mosaic.) But this is an excellent series of recordings, the Cole ones, and worth following. . . .

I am one of those Powell nuts, but I noticed yesterday that Indigo has a great collection of Powell called "Early Powell" that has sides with Cootie Williams (not to be missed) and the earliest under his own name. All the Indigoes I have heard have had good sound, so that should be a low budget possiblity for you.

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Anthony

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Member # 17

posted January 24, 2000 03:39 PM

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Bev,

I wouldn't ignore the Blue Note Monk alternates for long. In fact "alternates" is probably not an appropriate term in this case, as these are more like variations. Some of the heads are given completely different treatments than they are given in the master takes. Just something to consider.

Anthony

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Chris Albertson

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Member # 551

posted January 24, 2000 07:36 PM

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Re your tongue-in-cheek surface noise theory, John L., that's funny, but, sadly, not so distant from the truth.

Actually, the guy who headed up the Blues Mafia was the late Nick Perls, whose label, Yazoo, you may have come across.

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John L

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Member # 123

posted January 25, 2000 01:03 AM

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Yes, I know the label well. But I don't know Nick Perls.

At any rate, you did a superb job with the Bessie Smith collection, with the sound and the liner notes.

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Jason Drake

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Member # 602

posted January 25, 2000 01:32 AM

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Bev, where did you get the catalogue from ?

I've tried to find a website for them but no luck.

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Scott Lasser

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Member # 185

posted January 25, 2000 09:57 AM

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All --

I bought the early releases from that label from our Allegro sales rep... and they sold astonishingly well! (Nice thing about Tower: they let me indulge myself.)

I'm pretty sure you can find a complete listing of the series through Allegro, if not an entire catalog.

Scott Lasser

P.S. The J.C. Higginbotham is terrific.

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Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted January 25, 2000 10:51 AM

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Jason, I got mine from Jumbo Records in Leeds. I suspect you'd need to contact a store that has a fair selection.

There's a place in Norwich called Jazz 'n' Blues Records advertising in this months Jazz Review about its ability to supply all Classics at £8.50 or 6 for £50

(or, is it wittily says, "If you are rich you can have all 600 for £4 500"). You might get a catalogue from them. Their telephone is 01603 467777 (email Jazzjerry@aol.com). I've never used them so I'm not sure what they are like.

If you go into www.CDNow.com and look up Jazz Chronological Classics under 'label' you'll get an alphabet. Click on the letter you're after and you'll have the available names and can link on to a full listing of tracks. Not quite as nice as a catalogue you can ring to your hearts content but useful...

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marvin g

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Member # 470

posted January 25, 2000 04:32 PM

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Yes I have quite a few of those Classics CD's especially the neglected swing bands. I've been looking for early stuff by Buddy Johnson,Helen Humes,Jimmy Luncford.Chick Webb minus Ella,Teddy Wilson minus Billie,Cab Calloway and a few other Harlemites of that era.

I too like those covers it really fits the era of the music.

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Lon Armstrong

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Member # 137

posted January 26, 2000 05:49 AM

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Marv, if you see it grab the Hep Records cd of Chick Webb, or the Decca cd; these reissue early Webb material without Ella. Fine stuff. Also the two Chronologicals under Webb's name just about reissue all the sides without Ella.

The Hep Records series on Teddy Wilson is excellent and reissue chronologically all the sides with and without Billie in the best sound I have heard, including piano solos. This is marvelous music, well presented on cd.

I have not bought any of the Calloway Chronological Classics, but imagine that they are a good way to travel through the early material. The two items under Cab's name in the Best of the Big Band series from Columbia, if still in print, are good choices, although from the later thirties and early forties. . . .

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alankin

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Member # 220

posted January 30, 2000 02:58 PM

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I noticed that CyberMusicSurplus has a couple dozen Chronological Classics for 7.99.

Here are the titles:

ALIX COMBELLE 1940-1941

ALIX COMBELLE 1942-1943

BESSIE SMITH 1925-1927

BLUE LU BARKER 1938-1939

BOOTS & HIS BUDDIES 1937-1938.

EDDIE "LOCKJAW" DAVIS 1946-1947.

ERROLL GARNER 1944, VOL 2

FATS WALLER 1935, VOL 2

GARLAND WILSON 1931-1938

JAMES P JOHNSON 1928-1938

JOE MARSALA 1936-1942

MIDGE WILLIAMS 1937-1938

MILLS BLUE RHYTHM BAND 1936-1937.

PUTNEY DANDRIDGE 1936

RICHARD M JONES 1923-1927

RICHARD M JONES 1927-1944

SIDNEY BECHET 1941-1944

STAN KENTON 1947

TEDDY HILL 1935-1937

TOMMY DORSEY & HIS ORCH 1936

WILLIE LEWIS 1936-1938

WILLIE LEWIS 1941

Some well-known people & some I've never heard of. Comments, anyone?

The site is--CyberMusicSurplus

Alan go.to/jazzmatazz

[This message has been edited by alankin (edited January 30, 2000).]

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Swinging Swede

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Member # 197

posted January 30, 2000 06:25 PM

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Some quick notes here. I will go into more length on some of the names in my upcoming Swing era post(s) I promised Bev.

ALIX COMBELLE

The French Coleman Hawkins, who sometimes played great but sometimes got a bit silly in his solos. The two volumes listed mostly contain big band tracks recorded during the German occupation. Actually, as far as I remember, I thought the first volume ”1935-1940” (not on this list) was the best.

BESSIE SMITH

The most famous blues singer during the twenties, but you knew that already.

BLUE LU BARKER

Singer who I think was married to guitarist Danny Barker. I haven’t heard this one myself, but from what I’ve read she was just a so-so singer, but the sessions include many wellknown swing musicians.

BOOTS & HIS BUDDIES

Unlike most other territory bands, this Texas-based swing orchestra recorded quite a bit. This is the second of two volumes. One session is unfortunately marred by a trumpet section badly out of tune, but otherwise this was a pretty good band, well worth checking out.

EDDIE ”LOCKJAW” DAVIS

His first recordings. Has the famous sides with Fats Navarro, plus some rare sessions for obscure labels. A good buy.

ERROLL GARNER

Well worth getting for the ten track session that was his commercial debut. The other selections are from Timme Rosenkranz’s apartment sessions, that actually first were issued on Blue Note in the early 50’s, but which unfortunately have very substandard sound.

FATS WALLER

22 tracks with his popular Rhythm, which recorded an unbelievable amount of numbers 1934-42. Remember that there are several lables that have issued the complete Rhythm recordings, of which Classics is one.

GARLAND WILSON

American pianist, whom Aric wouldn’t have liked, if you know what I mean... He was discovered by John Hammond but settled in Europe in 1932. Mostly solos, the value of which has been debated. Some have considered him one of the great jazz pianists, others not so.

JAMES P. JOHNSON

The second of Classics’ Johnson Cds mostly has pre-Depression recordings, both piano solos and small bands with many famous names. Also has the Pee Wee Russell’s Rhythmmakers session from 1938 (including Freddie Greene’s only recorded solo!). A very interesting set.

JOE MARSALA

Clarinetist Joe Marsala for many years led the house band at the Hickory House, where many famous musicians used to come to jam. These recordings basically are small band swing with a Condon touch. One interesting thing is the use of harp on some of the sessions, another that these sessions include the first recordings of two great drummers, Buddy Rich and Shelly Manne! Recommended.

MIDGE WILLIAMS

Singer about whom little is known. There are a lot of good swing musicians backing her though, including early versions of what would become the John Kirby Sextet.

MILLS BLUE RHYTHM BAND

Great early swing big band, unduly obscure today because of its anonymous name. In this volume, the last of five, Lucky Millinder was the leader, and the musicians include Henry ”Red” Allen, Charlie Shavers and Harry ”Sweets” Edison on trumpets, J.C. Higginbotham and Wilbur de Paris on trombones, Tab Smith and Joe Garland on reeds, Edgar Hayes and Billy Kyle on piano, Lawrence Lucie and Danny Barker on guitar, and future Kirby drummer O’Neil Spencer. Essential!

PUTNEY DANDRIDGE

One of the many Fats Waller clones record companies tried to come up with in the mid-30’s, in the wake of the huge success of Waller’s Victor recordings. Dandridge, who recorded for Vocalion, was no Waller, but his recordings have many great sidemen. This volume has Teddy Wilson, Cozy Cole, Henry ”Red” Allen, Joe Marsala, Clyde Hart, Doc Cheatham and Sidney Catlett among others. The first volume, btw, has Roy Eldridge, Chu Berry and Buster Bailey among others.

RICHARD M. JONES

Jones may today be best remembered for having been the producer of Louis Armstrong’s Hot Five and Hot Seven recordings, but he was actually a good pianist in his own right, who recorded many sessions in the 20’s. For lovers of 20’s jazz these two volumes offer many little-known sessions to check out. The latter disc also has a few scattered later sessions, including a rare non-Basie appearance by Herschel Evans!

SIDNEY BECHET

This volume has his last two Victor sessions from 1941, a V-Disc session from 1943, a Blue Note session from 1944 (Including ”Blue Horizon”) and a 1944 session under pianist Cliff Jackson’s name.

STAN KENTON

Kenton’s 40’s recordings are his greatest in my opinion. This volume has a mixture of ‘progressive jazz’, swinging charts like ”Capitol Punishment” and ”Minor Riff”, and vocal features for June Christy. Essential in one form or another.

TEDDY HILL

This set has the complete recordings of this big band, which toured Europe in 1937. The first session has Roy Eldridge and Chu Berry, and the last has the first recorded solo by Dizzy Gillespie! Other musicians include Dickie Wells and Russell Procope. Need I say more?

TOMMY DORSEY

Although TD’s greatest days lay ahead, this early incarnation of his big band is not without interest. Although most of the tracks are vocals, there are also several instrumentals in a Bob-Crosbyish dixieland style, later totally abandoned by Dorsey. The orchestra also had a great asset in tenorist Bud Freeman, the only pre-Prez tenorist to come up with an original style not dependent on Coleman Hawkins. TD himself was a master trombonist, and these recordings are not at all as square as some detractors would have you belive.

WILLIE LEWIS

This was a most unusual American big band, in that all its recordings were made in Europe! Among the sidemen were Bill Coleman on trumpet and Herman Chittison on piano. There is also a first volume ”1932-1936”, which has a session where Benny Carter sits in and also contributes six arrangements. Well worth checking out for the swing fan.

Mostly lesser-known entries in the Classics catalogue there, but a lot of good music still!

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alankin

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Member # 220

posted January 30, 2000 06:53 PM

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Thanks for the detailed information! I'm impressed by how much people know about the music.

I'll probably try a few of these titles. (To my wallet's displeasure.)

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Swinging Swede

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Member # 197

posted January 30, 2000 07:14 PM

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Yeah, jazz interest and wallets don't go well together! I've noticed that too!

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Lon Armstrong

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Member # 137

posted January 30, 2000 07:20 PM

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That Boots and his Buddies will surprise you. The second volume is disappointing, mainly because the first volume is AMAZING. San Antonio band, playing and swinging like mad.

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Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted January 31, 2000 10:30 AM

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Looking forward to your Swing post, Swede. The last one was invaluable.

Have picked up three Teddy Wilson Classics of late which are so good! I've known the Holiday stuff for years but have been totally won over by the other stuff on these discs. I could easily become obsessional on Wilson, I think. Any comments on his later music? What's the duo with Lester Young from the 50s like? I've always stayed clear due to Young's reputation as being unreliable in the 50s.

Also, Fats Waller. I bought a great compilation before Xmas and someone mentioned then I'd want more. Yes, you were right. What period is best to start in? I'm not sure whether to investigate the RCA discs or go with the Classics.

And a curio. At the end of the Chu Berry Classics disc there are two tunes broken into part 1 and 2; both last for 2 minutes for each part and are cut off in their prime - no ending. It sounds as if the playing was recorded on two machines with a slight overlap. What was this all about?

While we're at it I've always loved the sound of 40's music since first hearing Parker. Any recommendations on the Don Byas (someone drew my attention to a 1945 recording of Laura) and Howard McGhee front? And Lucky Thompson? I've heard them all in passing on other peoples discs and been impressed. And who should I be listening to guitar-wise from this period? I know a lot of Christian and would put 'Swing to Bop' somewhere near the top of all time favourite pieces. What's comparable?

Sorry. That's abou 8,000 questions in one post. I'd better go and mark some exam papers!

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Lon Armstrong

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Member # 137

posted January 31, 2000 11:04 AM

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Well, I think that the Teddy Wilson and Lester Young quartet date on Verve is among the finest of Pres' Verve work; any band with Ted, Pres, Gene Ramey and Jo Jones is going to have a balance of fine moments.

I have all the Chronological Classics of Don Byas, and can recommend each and every one. The latest two released are exceptionally nice, but they are all excellent. Some of the best sides are on a Savoy/Denon cd that is not too hard to find still: Jam Party.

I believe I told you that you would be clamoring for more Fats Waller. The RCA series of discs are excellent; the sound is better than most of the Classics I think, and there are liner notes which are quite useful. However, in typical mysteriousness, not all volumes are in print. I actually have this material in the fourteen (!) volumes of Fats Waller and his Rhythm on King Jazz, recommended if you can find them, and the piano solos on RCA Bluebird, and a few other discs here and there (including the great material recorded in London which is on the DRG label.)

As for guitar. . . A lot of what I would recommend is not easy to find. The forties and early fifties Carl Kress sides on Capitol I really really like, but they are not to my knowledge on cd except in the Capitol Mosaic box. And I think you would like the forties and early fifties sides of T-bone Walker, who I think of as jazz but most of the world claims as blues; he is one of my most favorite guitarists of this period, and other favorites are John Collins, Tiny Grimes, and the two Moore brothers, Oscar who played with the Nat King Cole Trio, and Johnny who was the leader of Johnny Moore and the Three Blazers, which featured Charles Brown on piano and vocals. Also a favorite of mine is Billy Bauer's work with the Lennie Tristano groups and those of Tristanoites. . . .

[This message has been edited by Lon Armstrong (edited January 31, 2000).]

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Chris Albertson

Member

Member # 551

posted January 31, 2000 03:58 PM

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Alankin,

Here are just a few notes to supplement the excellent information fornished by the Swinging Swede.

SS, I hope you don't mind some input from a Dane

ALIX COMBELLE

He also led a memorable 1935 session with the Quintet of the Hot Club of France (Grappelli, Reinhardt,et al). And I agree, the 1937-40 sides on the Swing label are his best.

BESSIE SMITH I have to agree with the Swinging Swede--she was not just great, she was the greatest of the so-called "classic" blues singers.

BLUE LU BARKER

Yes, she was married to guitarist Danny Barker. Not a bad singer, actually, and she had a great sense of humor (as did Danny). Her best known tune is "Don't You Get Me High." Her accompanists included Henry Red Allen, Benny Carter, Buster Bailey, Lil Armstrong, Chu Berry, and Sammy Price.

BOOTS & HIS BUDDIES

Led by Boots Douglas--a good but not exceptional territory band that made a series of Bluebird sessions in San Antonio, Texas, between1935 and 38.

EDDIE ”LOCKJAW” DAVIS

Lockjaw also recorded several tenor duo albums with Johnny Griffin for Prestige (Lockjaw's label) and Riverside (Johnny's label), and worked intermittently with the Basie band for 20 years.

ERROLL GARNER

Considering the enormous volume of recordings that followed, these early sessions have more historical value than anything else. BTW, Timme and I used to share an apartment in New York--he had more private Garner recordings than were issued by BN.

FATS WALLER

Allthe Victor recordings are available, so here technical quality should be considered.

GARLAND WILSON

His 1931 solo sessions were also John Hammond's first. When John learned that Garland was gay, he distanced himself from him. Garland recorded in London and Paris between 1932 and 1938. Not a bad pianist

JAMES P. JOHNSON

Johnson was the father of the Harlem stride piano style. Fats Waller was his disciple, and he--in turn, inspired Basie. Johnson was also Bessie Smith's favorite pianist.

JOE MARSALA

I have nothing to add here. He was a capable clarinetist who often surrounded himself with better musicians.

MIDGE WILLIAMS

Midge was probably best known for her years with Louis Armstrong's orchestra. She performed extensively in Asia, including Shanghai and Tokyo, during the early Thirties (recording a couple of tunes in Japanese). Later, back in the US, she hit the road with Fats Waller.

MILLS BLUE RHYTHM BAND

I highly recommend these recordings. BTW, guitarist Lawrence Lucie is still performing (he's at the Blue Note, NYC, tonight 1/31/00).

PUTNEY DANDRIDGE

He was also Bill "Bojangles" Robinson's accompanist for awhile.

RICHARD M. JONES

Jones was Okeh's head of race records, but Lil Armstrong told me that he didn't actually produce the Hot Five and Hot Seven sessions.

SIDNEY BECHET

I have never heard a bad Bechet recording.

STAN KENTON

Again, I agree with the my fellow Scandinavian; Kenton’s 40’s Capitol recordings are his best. As a matter of fact, around 1948-8 I used to take a ferry to Malmö (Sweden) from Copenhagen, just to buy coffee, chocolate, Nellie Lutcher, and Kenton.

TEDDY HILL

He used to be a member of Bessie Smith's touring band, but he made his name on the cutting edge of bop.

TOMMY DORSEY

Surely you had heard of him, right?

WILLIE LEWIS

He was a member of the interesting Sam Wooding big band that played in Berlin in 1925, and he toured with Sam after that, acquiring a taste for Europe. I recall buying a 78rpm on Elite Special (a Swiss label) by "Williw Lewis Und Sein Niggerband"!!

[This message has been edited by Chris Albertson (edited January 31, 2000).]

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Posts: 2989 | From: NYC - New, temporarily downgraded, USA | Registered: Dec 1999 | IP: Logged

alankin

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Member # 220

posted January 31, 2000 04:35 PM

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Thanks, Chris!

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marvin g

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Member # 470

posted January 31, 2000 06:51 PM

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I've been eyeballing the Clarence Williams Classics any suggestions??

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Edward

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Member # 73

posted February 01, 2000 09:25 AM

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Marvin, you might be better off getting the Clarence Williams material presented on the two Frog ("Dreaming the Hours Away" and "Whoop It Up") and the three Collector's Classics ("Vol.1 1927-28", "Vol.2 1928", and "Vol.3 1929-30") CDs. John R.T. Davies remastered all of these discs, and I'm sure that their sound quality beats Chronological Classics'. The two Frog CDs cover (all of?) Clarence Williams' Columbia Recordings (May 1926 to February 1931), while the three Collector's Classics CDs cover Williams' recordings chronologically. There is some overlap between the two series, and you may have some difficulty tracking down the Collector's Classics (Danish label) discs - I believe that one of them is available for $7.99 from cybermusicsurplus.com . Of course, if you want all of Clarence Williams' material without the alternate takes, you can't beat the Chronological Classics series.

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Posts: 246 | From: Southern California | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

rries

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Member # 349

posted February 01, 2000 09:49 AM

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there must be something in the air. i just started buying these titles myself, and i had avoided them for all of the reasons stated above. i was going to start a thread, but i often procratinate. the copyright question is a good and timely one. this will probably be battled in the courts in the near future. disney just got an extension on mickey and some of the early movies (imagine that), but the big fight that looms just around the corner is the presley catalog. i've checked the ike quebec date on classics and it does not duplicate alot of material from the swingtet title that was recently reissued by blue note. has anyone heard the quebec classics title. if so, i would appreciate an opinion.

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Posts: 225 | From: cincinnati, ohio, usa | Registered: May 99 | IP: Logged

Bev Stapleton

Member

Member # 27

posted February 01, 2000 10:40 AM

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The way I understood it music over 50 years old is out of copyright. I can imagine a company like Disney, with all its muscle, trying to change the rules to milk Mickey further. I can't really imagine anyone wanting to fight in the courts over Fletcher Henderson et al! In a way its a pity!

Does it seem like there is going to be an attempt to widen the copyright situation? Can't see much of a reason. Yes, an artist and his/her dependants, the company who financed them (I suppose!) have a claim to remuneration for a reasonable time - and 50 years seems more than reasonable! Beyond that we're just talking about big corporations wanting more money.

[This message has been edited by Bev Stapleton (edited February 01, 2000).]

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Lon Armstrong

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Member # 137

posted February 01, 2000 10:58 AM

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Bob, that Swingtets cd from Blue Note USA contains sessions from others as well as Ike, so that is why there are different tunes thereon.

The Chronological Classics Quebec has I believe all the masters from Blue Note of the Swingtets, etc.(can't remember; it might lack one session) and four Savoy sides. The Blue Note Classics (Japan) Quebec two cds has all the Blue Note masters, and all the alternates. Shortly after I got this and the Swingtet sides I was lucky enough to receive tapes of the Quebec/Hardee Mosaic set (still never have seen the booklet or a photocopy) and then shortly after that I purchased the two Quebec and one Hardy on Blue Note Classics from Japan, and several others with material that is on the Swingtets cd, and I confess to not listening to any of the others in some time; the Blue Note Classics sound fantastic.

There is also now a Definitive Records (Spain) cd that has the Blue Note masters, in what I imagine is great sound, as all their other releases sound great.

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Posts: 10027 | From: Austin, TX USA | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted February 05, 2000 04:49 PM

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Chris,

I certainly don’t mind! Let me instead take the opportunity to say that I think that it’s great to have you on this board. Your experience in the business enable you to offer an inside perspective that I think is highly appreciated by all board members! And keep those anecdotes coming!

Marvin,

Clarence Williams’ most important recordings were with his Blue Five featuring Louis Armstrong and Sidney Bechet 1923-1925. On Classics those can be found on ”1921-1924” and ”1924-1926”. His later recordings from the 20’s, although less important, also had many famous guests. His recordings from the 30’s pretty much continued in the same style (Williams never making the shift to swing), although by then he stuck to a few lesser-known but loyal sidemen. I wrote a paragraph on Williams in the ”Where to start before Swing?” thread, which you may want to check.

Bev,

Teddy Wilson led similar sessions until 1939. Then he started a big band which included Ben Webster on tenor, but it was shortlived. (After it folded, Webster went to Ellington, and that was what really catapulted him into fame.) 1940-44 Wilson led a sextet which unfortunately was underrecorded, partly because of the record ban. In the mid-40’s he once again recorded with pick-up groups, as well as solos, now for Musicraft. Wilson’s style remained the same for the rest of his career, so you know what you get if you buy a Wilson record!

Lester Young’s style changed in the 50’s, and many have seen this a sign of decline. But this view was something that bothered Young, since the change was intentional on his part, playing even sparser than before, stripping down his choice of notes to the essentials. Sure, his life was unstable in those years, and he was in a physical decline, but his recordings rarely reflect that, but rather his change in concept.

Regarding Fats Waller And His Rhythm, Classics is always a safe choice, since they stay in print, and also have the other material (his piano solos, his European recordings, and on the last one, not yet issued, his V-Disc recordings). The RCA sets have much better liner notes of course, but I saw that Lon mentioned that they are not all in print, unfortunately. Another thing I can mention is that the last of them (actually the first one released) ”The Last Years 1940-1943” has alternate takes instead of master takes for several selections. The King Jazz label, judging from the Cds I have (not Waller) have good sound, and alternate takes, but they may be hard to find today. As for what Rhythm recordings to start with, I think you should start with the earliest ones (from 1934) and then you can work your way forward.

Although I don’t know the specific origin of the Berry-Ventura sides, they were apparently not commercial recordings, but some sort of private recordings, only released years later on the Sittin’ In With label. Around that time portable disc cutters started to become an option (later wire and tape recorders) and it was not unusual for enthusiasts to record their heroes in this way. The sound was of course much inferior, but especially when they featured musicians who had died early, they became interesting for release anyway. The most notorious example is Charlie Parker, with whom there exist remarkably many private recordings, some unlistenable, but released anyway. It’s amazing by the way to hear how Ventura had almost completely copied Berry’s style, although there also are some specific Venturaisms one recognizes from his later recordings. By the way, Classics has recently released the first CD under Ventura’s own name, ”1945-1946”, and it’s recommended. Another famous white tenorist who was a big fan of Chu Berry in his early days is Stan Getz.

Regarding Don Byas, I agree with Lon, all the Classics are recommended. After having played with Andy Kirk (1939-40) and Count Basie (1941-43), where you also can find several solos of his, he recorded an astonishing number of sessions under his own name in 1944-46, as well as being a highly in-demand sideman. In 1946 he went to Europe and didn’t return for over two decades. Although he continued to record a lot in Europe, his departure from the US scene is the reason why he isn’t as wellknown as he otherwise would have been. American musicians visiting Europe always wanted to play with him, and in my opinion Don Byas is a tenor giant.

In the mid to late 40’s McGhee was often mentioned up there with Gillespie and Parker as one of the top beboppers. ‘Personal problems’ kept him largely off the scene for the next decade, thus making him a rather forgotten name. But from 1945 to 1948 he recorded a lot of sessions under his own name, showing what a great musician he was during his prime. Since he recorded for many different labels, I think it’s best to go for the Classics releases. So far there have been two, ”1948” and ”1946-1948”, and the third which should be ”1945-1946” will probably come soon. After that, his next sessions were those that were released on the 10” Connoisseurs. Let me also mention that McGhee had a famous swing era feature, ”McGhee Special” recorded with Andy Kirk in 1942, which was composed and arranged by McGhee and featured him throughout. I will write more about Kirk’s recordings in my swing era post.

Regarding Lucky Thompson, he also played with Basie , in 1944-45, replacing Lester Young on the chair that Byas actually had held previously. For his own 40’s recordings, I’m waiting for a Classics release, which I think should come, but if one can’t wait, I know that there are at least two Cds on small labels called ”The Beginning Years” and ”Smooth Sailing”. I don’t have them myself so I can’t comment on them any further.

By the way, both Byas and Thompson are tenorists whose styles have been called ”transitional”, a label I think is unfair. The type of style they had is musically every bit as definite as any pure so called swing or bop tenorist.

Regarding a guitarist, the one that most comes to my mind from your description is Tiny Grimes. He had a Charlie Christian-influenced swing-based style and appeared on many recordings in the mid-40’s. His first session under his own name was made for Savoy in 1944, and is quite famous since it had Charlie Parker as sideman. He led another session in 1946, and then in the late 40’s led a R&Bish band. I think his sessions under his own name have been released on the Blue Moon label, but otherwise the best example I can think of now is his recordings with the Art Tatum Trio from 1944, which are out on Classics’ Tatum Cds ”1940-1944” and ”1944”. Especially the ten-track Brunswick session on ”1940-1944” is essential, and since Tatum himself is quite some bonus, there really isn’t much to hesitate about there! Grimes also led three Prestige albums in the 50’s, which are available as OJCs. Otherwise the problem with guitarists is that they rarely recorded as leaders. You will frequently hear a guitarist pop up here and there as sideman on big band and small group recordings from this era, but rarely as leader, and that’s why it’s difficult to direct you to any specific album.

As for the BN Powells and Monks, I, like you, prefer to hear the master takes only, but that can easily be accomplished by programming the CD player. It only takes a few seconds, so it’s better than buying the music anew, or not buying it at all.

As for the Nat King Cole Classics the earlier Cds have recordings for several different labels, most importantly Decca. From ”1943-1944” it’s mainly Capitol. The earlier ones are generally jazzier than the later ones, when a shift to emphasizing his singing and slower pop material is noticeable.

Well, Bev, it seems like you forgot to ask your other 7990 questions!

To Lon especially I should say that from Cole’s Capitol days, his Classics Cds also contain: a Disc session with Illinois Jacquet on ”1943-1944”, a V-Disc session on ”1944-1945”, a Sunset session with Charlie Shavers and Herbie Haymer as well as another V-Disc session on ”1945”, and the Keynoters session with Willie Smith as well as one more V-Disc track on ”1946”. So it’s not only Capitol material from 1943 and onwards.

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Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Victor Christensen

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Member # 214

posted February 06, 2000 06:09 AM

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Bev et al

About Fats Waller on King Jazz.

Planet has 12 of them listed in their february flier for 750 pesetas a piece.

Vic

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Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted February 06, 2000 06:33 AM

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I owe you all a million thanks again...although I thought I'd made my mind up on the RCA Wallers and now I'm wondering if the Classics might be a better approach to avoid the alternate takes. Is the sound quality that different?

On the guitar front I know the Parker sides with Tiny Grimes. Will have to look further. I occasionally hear Tal Farlow mentioned with great love. I have the Norvo/Mingus trio LP he made and must listen more closely. Any comments on Farlow. I saw a Verve disc which seems readily available - it was called something like 'The Artistry of Tal Farlow.' Any advice?

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Scott Lasser

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Member # 185

posted February 06, 2000 04:23 PM

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Bev --

You might be refering to the two Verve dates "The Tal Farlow Album" and "Tal". Both are exceptional; I give "Album" a slight nod because several of the cuts feature Joe Morello on drums. I really love his stuff form the 50's and 60's.

Honestly, though -- You can't go wrong with either discs.

Scott

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Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted February 07, 2000 10:32 AM

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Thanks Scott. I know I got the name of the album wrong. It was actually 'The Swinging Guitar of Tal Farlow' - I just checked on CD Now's site.

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

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Member # 197

posted February 07, 2000 03:39 PM

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There is also a Verve Elite Edition of "This Is Tal Farlow" recorded in 1958. I understand from the postings here that the VEEs often are difficult to locate in America, but here in Europe they seem much easier to come by.

But we are definitely into the modern jazz era when we're talking about Farlow. Another great 50's guitarist, whom there doesn't seem to be much dicussion about is Barney Kessel. He came up in the post-Christian years and can be heard as sideman on several mid-40's sessions. From 1953 until the early 60's he recorded a string of albums for Contemporary, and almost all of them have been released as OJCs. Very swinging, in a modern vein.

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Scott Lasser

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Member # 185

posted February 08, 2000 05:02 AM

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Someone on another thread just mentioned that they had found the VEE of "This Is Tal..." at a WALMART!!!!!

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Posts: 1225 | From: St. Louis, Missouri | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted February 10, 2000 04:47 PM

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Exciting news!

I was in a record store the other day, and had not planned to pick up anything really, when my eyes suddenly caught it: a boxset from Classics called ”Complementary Tracks”! Now, normally I know in advance the next few titles from Classics, but this release I hadn’t heard about at all. It didn’t take me many seconds to realize that this was the kind of release one dreams about, only to wake up to the gloomy reality of unreleased and OOP music!

”Complementary Tracks” is a 2-CD set with a third ‘bonus CD’. It has the remaining tracks of some artists, that didn’t fit on previous releases, as well as some discographically isolated sessions, and some tracks that simply weren’t available when previous volumes were produced. The third bonus CD corrects some errors that were present on early pressings of some titles. Those early pressings in some cases had the wrong tune, or an alternate take instead of the master take. Of course I’m one of the suckers who bought those early pressings when they came out!

So what does this set contain? Well, it has the remaining non-Ella Chick Webb tracks, it has the remaining Al Cooper’s Savoy Sultans session, the two remaining Fletcher Henderson sessions (1945 & 1949), the remaining two 40’s Don Redman sessions (1943 & 1946 with Don Byas), the only session ever made by the legendary Walter Page’s Blue Devils, the 1927 session with the Chickasaw Syncopaters (which in a way would become the Jimmie Lunceford orchestra), the last session by Alphonso Trent’s legendary territory orchestra (the previous sessions are on the recent ”Stuff Smith 1944-1946”, Smith being a sideman on those), the only pre-LP era recordings under clarinetist Omer Simeon’s name (and these 1929 performances are GREAT, with Earl Hines on piano on one), Taft Jordan’s only pre-LP session, the 1924 Red Onion Jazz Babies sessions with Louis Armstrong, clearly anticipating the Hot Five recordings, three of Midge Williams’ extremely rare 1934 Japanese recordings (imagine hearing ”St. Louis Blues” and ”Dinah” sung in Japanese! On the latter we also get to hear Japanese trumpet and clarinet solos! In 1934!), pianist Garnet Clark (who died 24 years old in a mental asylum) on a breathtaking ”I Got Rhythm” solo performance ... plus some other rarities! The bonus CD enabled me to hear, for instance, Lunceford’s ”Bugs Parade” for the first time. My original pressing had ”Blues In The Groove” a second time instead.

All in all, an exciting release, filling some important holes in one’s collection! The sound is very good, and I agree with Lon, that the newer Classics releases have very good sound. Those from the early years (the label started late in 1989) are not on the same level soundwise, but hey, that’s what’s said about BNs and OJCs from that time too.

This release also has some words on the history and intentions of Classics, that I thought you would find interesting:

”Over the last ten years, Classics has issued 600 CDs with a total of some 13000 tracks. Compared with the complete output of all jazz artists until 1950, this is only a percentage - but a considerable one! It has always been the policy of Classics not to focus exclusively on the big names and greatest bands but also to make available the recordings of unduly neglected or almost forgotten artists. We have tried and always intend to include all studio recordings or live sessions by an artist as long as all or part of the resulting music was actually issued at or around the time of the recording. This double CD collates a number of recordings that complete sessions by artists whose music is already out on Classics or makes tracks available that stand rather isolated, discographically speaking.”

The notes conclude with the following passage:

”We are looking forward to your ongoing support, criticism and help in order to carry on with many more new releases.”

Well, no e-mail address or website is given, but on the last page there is an address one can write to in order to get a free fully detailed Classics catalogue [and presumably offer suggestions too]:

CLASSICS - MÉLODIE - 50, RUE STENDAHL - 75020 PARIS - FRANCE

FAX: (33) (0)1 43 58 62 26

I hope I got it right there. Well, in later years they have started to release the recordings of several white band leaders, but there are some more I definitely would like to see, like Charlie Barnet and Jimmy Dorsey. Perhaps they are in the works already, but it doesn’t hurt to suggest them, I suppose.

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Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted February 11, 2000 11:30 AM

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Thanks, Swede. The disc you mention sound wonderful and I'll be looking out for it on my next London trip.

Incidentally, are you from Sweden? Or of Swedish extraction? Or nothing to do with Sweden at all? Perhaps it's your christian name? Just curious.

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Lon Armstrong

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Member # 137

posted February 11, 2000 11:51 AM

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Swingin', my jazz buyer friend called me up Wednesday night all excited over that three cd set. Going to be looking at it very closely this weekend, and it will probably leave the store with me. . . .You are right, this is an exciting release!

[This message has been edited by Lon Armstrong (edited February 11, 2000).]

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Posts: 10027 | From: Austin, TX USA | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

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Was my question answered? :)

i like your question :rlol

I like your liking of his question :crazy:

A question may be either a linguistic expression used to make a request for information, or else the request itself made by such an expression. This information is provided with an answer.

Questions are normally put or asked using interrogative sentences. But they can also be put by imperative sentences, which normally express commands: "Tell me what 2 + 2 is"; conversely, some expressions, such as "Would you pass the butter?", have the grammatical form of questions but actually function as requests for action, not for answers. (A phrase such as this could, theoretically, also be viewed not merely as a request but as an observation of the other person's desire to comply with the request given.)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Who is taking who to the courts?

I notice the 'Complete Jazz Classics' downloads discs are pouring onto e-music now. Whoever is doing this seems to be working alphabetically. Lots of Benny Goodman today.

Be nice to know if this is the original company or someone else.

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