JSngry Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 doesn't blue note have some kind of archive for their own releases? They don't have any archive that I'm aware of other than the analog masters. They probably still have the CD mother stamper somewhere in the pressing plant, but they don't have any kind of library of all the CDs they've ever made. say WHAT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Can you imagine sitting in the meeting with the guys that came up with this one? "OK. so I didn't sleep a wink last night. Lightning struck and it came to me. I've got it!" "(Sigh) Let's hear it..." "OK, so you know that record label that I was telling you about? Blue Note Records? Yeah, yeah, the jazz label!" "CD-Rs." "What?" "CD-Rs!" "How in the hell is this a good idea?!" "We don't have to pay anyone for duplication! We are going to do it ourselves!" (Motions to an external CD-burner that he purchased on the way in this morning) "You're a moron." "Look. We burn the discs. We print the booklets. We print disc labels. We trim the booklets. We saddle-stitch the booklets. We print, trim, and fold the tray cards. I'll get an intern to insert the booklets and tray cards into the jewel cases, and snap everything together! We can do this!" "OK, so you are saying that we spend budget on blanks, jewel cases, paper stock, inkjet cartridges, which cost a fucking fortune, staples, and everything required to get these things into the mail stream. Am I missing anything?" "I think that's it... and I think you are exaggerating on the price of inkjet carts, don't you? Not bad, eh?!!" "And this is an on-demand product. No inventory?" "That's the beauty of it! We have no exposure or risk whatsoever!" "Well, its possible that we could build into the retail the cost to outsource the print & fold piece. There's an Alphagraphics right across the street." "See! Brilliant right?!" "Its not bad... I'm sure there are at least a hundred people out there looking for, say James Newton's Revolution and Romance." "Pfaaa... at LEAST!" It's...as if...you were actually....in the room when the meeting took place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Let me say this again - I'll gladly pay 5-6 bucks for a real set of artwork. But to pay $15+ for a freakin' CD-R requires amounts of both disposable income and disposable sanity that I am not able to muster at this time. Thank god! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Let me say this again - I'll gladly pay 5-6 bucks for a real set of artwork. But to pay $15+ for a freakin' CD-R requires amounts of both disposable income and disposable sanity that I am not able to muster at this time. Thank god! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 i dig that data disc idea...hell i havent played an actual cd in ages....if i wanna listen to a cd i usually rip a copy to mp3 to listen to on the bus or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I'm not tracking this closely, but it seems that prices on some titles are dropping: These titles are now $9.98: Lee Morgan - The Rajah Lou Donaldson - The Scorpion Lena Horne - Supper Club McCoy Tyner - Asante Benny Green - That's Right Mose Allison - The Earth Wants You Jimmy Smith - Open House/Plain Talk (a smoker, IMO) Introducing Duke Pearson's Big Band Tim Hagans - No Words T.S. Monk - Take One some of the Jazz Profile discs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 doesn't blue note have some kind of archive for their own releases? They don't have any archive that I'm aware of other than the analog masters. They probably still have the CD mother stamper somewhere in the pressing plant, but they don't have any kind of library of all the CDs they've ever made. say WHAT? Yeah, that does not make sense. They should have every format version in some sort of master. BUT this is the same company that can't find any tapes of the AEC masters made in 1969 and 1970. Did I ever mention I have tapes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Mention? Hell, you've freakin' represented! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 id be hard pressed if even 1/4 of blue note cds were done right from a master tape....like the best example is song for my father, whatever tape they're using for the issues is messed up. i would be interested to know what went down the late 80s/early 90s or whenever they mastered all those blue note cds. does anyone here know the history of blue note cd masterings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 chewy, the tape is badly damaged for that tune. It's been well documented that on the master, that tune is damaged beyond repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 I asked Michael Cuscuna a few weeks ago if Blue Note had a library of all the CDs they ever made and he said no. I have to think that if anyone knows it would be Michael. He said this company Amazon is using had to acquire original CDs and that he wasn't giving his personal copies to them. I don't blame him. I wouldn't either. Many years ago, I visited Blue Note's New York office and got a mini tour. I saw lots of CDs strewn over a lot of the desks, but nowhere did I see any library. Mostly just cubicles with people working like busy bees. I did see a large cabinet filled with promos, but the titles were just the latest ones they were putting out. There wasn't a warehouse there, just office space. Blue Note is part of EMI and they act like a huge conglomerate, not a small indie label. I doubt they would give Blue Note a budget to store a copy of each released CD. Besides, a few months back, Blue Note cleaned house and laid off most of their staff. I can't imagine there are too many people left there who would care about a CD collection. They probably threw a bunch of CDs in the trash. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:.impossible Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Well, based on the new rules, we have some majority shareholders here... I remember reading in some of the collectors' posts that there were very few BN releases that they were left to acquire. Masters aside, because that is just mind-boggling... I'm just trying to wrap my head around this whole thing. A company that pays for recording sessions, mixing sessions, mastering sessions, printing, duplication, distribution, and marketing does not keep at least one sample of each finished product? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Besides, a few months back, Blue Note cleaned house and laid off most of their staff. I can't imagine there are too many people left there who would care about a CD collection. They probably threw a bunch of CDs in the trash. Probably multiples of Romance and Revolution! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Nice to see The Rajah for a reasonable price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 He said this company Amazon is using had to acquire original CDs and that he wasn't giving his personal copies to them. So, is this company operating with or without BN/EMI permission? Ifit's with, then why would they not cooperate to provide satisfatory product/greater sales/greater return on licensing fees, etc. And it it's without, then how the hell is Amazon sanctioning this? Is EMI so impotent that Amazon spits in their face and laughs? Or does not EMI give a shit that somebody's openly pirating their product in the mainstream market place? And I really find it..."odd" that nobody at BN/EMI has kept a CD master of every release. What happens when James Newton goes crazy, kills Ad-Rock in a drive-by, gets famous in a whole new way, and suddenly they decide to reissue Romance and Revolution? Or America decides to change our national anthem to "Blues March" and they decide to repress Moanin' in Pop Smash quantities? What, is it back to the master tapes one more freakin' time? Unless I'm missing something really obvious, the more that comes to light about this whole deal, the more dysfunctional it appears... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 doesn't blue note have some kind of archive for their own releases? They don't have any archive that I'm aware of other than the analog masters. They probably still have the CD mother stamper somewhere in the pressing plant, but they don't have any kind of library of all the CDs they've ever made. say WHAT? Yeah, that does not make sense. They should have every format version in some sort of master. BUT this is the same company that can't find any tapes of the AEC masters made in 1969 and 1970. Did I ever mention I have tapes? I've been to the Capitol Records building and they have tons of extra cds in a room with shelves, including Mosaics. I wouldn't spend full price for a CD-R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Blue Note is part of EMI and they act like a huge conglomerate, not a small indie label. I doubt they would give Blue Note a budget to store a copy of each released CD. I can understand this. If EMI gave BN a budget to store all their releases, why not HMV India? Regal Zonophone? Mali K7? Pathe Marconi Cote d'Ivoire? Pathe Marconi France? Toshiba-EMI? Capitol? hEMIsphere? And so on and on and on. And a lot of those libraries would have the same albums in them - BN TOCJs and Pathe-Marconis and Spanish BNs and lord knows what. The company went bust without all that! But nonetheless... (Small is beautiful.) MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 I've been to the Capitol Records building and they have tons of extra cds in a room with shelves, including Mosaics. Yeah, but those are in print titles. I've told a story before about how crazy Blue Note is about limiting stock. Many years ago, they deleted Ken McIntyre's "The Complete United Artists Sessions". McIntyre wanted to be able to sell them at his shows so he called up Blue Note to see how many copies he could get, figuring he could get some of the returns. He was told that they had already destroyed all of them. The guy who told me the story said that they have to be destroyed for legal reasons. If they give to anyone, including the artist himself, the books have to account for them. If they're destroyed, they're written off as a loss. What happens when James Newton goes crazy, kills Ad-Rock in a drive-by, gets famous in a whole new way, and suddenly they decide to reissue Romance and Revolution? If Blue Note wanted to reissue "Romance and Revolution", they'd have two options. One option would be to put in a call to the pressing plant and see if they have the old CD master stamper. If they do, have them run off a few thousand copies. Then the pressing plant would pull up the old artwork and print up a batch. A few weeks later, "Romance and Revolution" is back on the shelves. Blue Note did this very thing about 15 years ago - they called it the Collector's Choice series. I am pretty sure that this is only cost effective for Blue Note in higher quantities. The second option is to call Ron McMaster and tell him to pull the masters and get a digital tape ready for CD mastering. There are a whole lot more added costs to this option, not the least of which is Ron's time. New mastering means new artwork. New CD label. Blue Note is definitely getting licensing fees from these CD-R reissues. I suppose if Amazon was smart, they could have tried to get file copies of the artwork as part of the licensing, but Blue Note probably would have wanted more money for that so they figured a scan would do. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 It all seems very 1992-ish to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Well, I await with bated breath Amazon's announcement that the entire Mali K7 catalogue is available on CD. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 It all seems very 1992-ish to me... Well, Blue Note went "2009" on their own website. You can buy mp3 downloads from them now. I was told when this started that the mp3 portfolio was supposed to expand to include oop titles. I wonder if this Amazon deal will stall that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Good point. Why hasn't BN been doing MP3s at this level themselves? Forgive me if I'm dredging up something already answered (and I don't completely buy the "CD-Rs for people afraid of downloading" bit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 I had no idea that James Newton's "Romance and Revolution" CD was so rare. I found a used copy for $2.99 at a local used record shop about a month ago. At the same time, I picked up his "African Flower" CD along with Hank Mobleys "Far Away Lands" and Art Blakey's & James Moody's "New Sounds". I guess someone dumped a few of their Blue Note CD's. Maybe this post should be moved to the "Great Finds" thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Damn, I jumped the gun. I was told that Blue Note was selling mp3s on their website but in looking there now, I don't see any. Maybe iTunes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 I find it really depressing folks look forward to mp3s. I've wasted thousands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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