new mission

[AllenLowe]

when I was much younger I was on something of a mission to rescue certain musicians from obscurity - that's how, before I was 25, I got friendly with musicians like Dave Schildkraut, Tommy Potter, Curley Russell, Al Haig, Barry Harris, Bob Neloms, and Jaki Byard, and a few others like Dickey Wells and Percy France - well, it was a frustrating time, though worthwhile because of all the musicians I got to know. As a matter of fact, though it's something of a cliche, THAT was the jazz school I always cite when people ask me where I learned to play, though it was more a process of socio-musical osmosis. Well, I'm thinking about all this more and more as I get older and begin to see certain things more clearly. And it all comes back when I have a conversation like the one I had with Larry Cohn tonight. Larry, of course, used to be the head of Sony Legacy and produced the Robert Johnson box among other things. Chris Albertson's name came up and Larry blurted "I love that guy" and proceeded to point out all that he has done for the music, and how badly Chris, like a few others, has been treated by the music industry. And it made me think - why hasn't the NEA and others recognized what he has done? (well I know the answer to that but if I give it I'll have to censor every other word). So I just wanted to mention this as we face a new administration which will try to deal with certain arts issues, though I have little optimism that they will face them with any sense of innovation. So I intend to put certain things together and send 'em on to Washington, though I have no idea where they will end up, But it would be nice if more than a few people who inhabit this site (thinking also of Nessa and Kart) get a small piece of official recognition. Historically this, if ever, is the time, though I have to admit I expect the process to be frustrating and likely an exercise in futility. But that's never stopped me before. So if you're interested stay tuned, as I will be putting together some ideas in the next months and would like to sign some of those here on, to send petitioning emails -

more later -

[Larry Kart]

Thanks for the kind thoughts, Allen, but speaking for myself -- "official recognition," bleah! As my old friend Theodor Adorno (or was it Linus Van Pelt?) once put it: "The more I get a taste of success, the more thoroughly I become aware [that] one's own existence then becomes a function of success."

[JSngry]

I mean, doesn't this say it all?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPoFI7m-cjI

[deeznuts]

johnny "hammond" smith did a dank version of this song.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Dean Fraser did a nice Reggae version on alto sax.

What does NEA stand for - National Environment Agency?

MG

[AllenLowe]

I understand, Larry, but I still think it's important to understand that this stuff is going to happen anyway in one way or another - the official liberals will get hold of the NEA and all we will hear will be about Wynton and Quincy and Oprah's book club - trust me, I know the arts world, and that's the way they'll go. Liberals in this world are essentially clueless. But to me "recognition" means preservation of work, direct support of all kinds of artists, from writers to preservationists to musicians, and it is worth a shot with this administration; as a matter of fact, I think it is urgent business - as it ALSO means support to continue your work and to make prior work accessible. It means, too, that we are not all discarded at a certain age by people with little or no collective memory-

NEA is national endowment for the arts -

Edited February 3, 2009 by AllenLowe

[Cliff Englewood]

I mean, doesn't this say it all?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPoFI7m-cjI

Word to the mutha-fuckin g.

[Cliff Englewood]

I mean, doesn't this say it all?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPoFI7m-cjI

Word to the mutha-fuckin g.

Sngry, I found a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better version, here.

[AllenLowe]

good job as usual, guys, in missing the point -

[AllenLowe]

let me explain a bit further why this is so important, though I understand Larry's point - recognition for those who have done the work leads to much more: it leads to EXAMINATION of the work and perpetuation of the work and the creation of a more institutionalized understanding of the work. And that, despite what it sounds like, is not a bad thing. It creates a sense that this music - and not just jazz, but all of American vernacular music - is important and worthy of respect - and it helps lead to not just recognition but dissemination of the music. There is, of course, an extremley important racial/historical component here - I mean, does anyone here know who Buddy Boy Hawkins was? Or Julius Daniels? Or Hambone Willie Newbern? Maybe a few do but probably 99 percent don't. And the result is a kind of cultural genocide, a destruction of a whole culture through neglect. And these things are part of the same problem and process. So that's why I have decided I'm going to try to do something. Because to those of us here the music is not just some kind of theoretical construct, it is a way of life.

Edited February 3, 2009 by AllenLowe

[flat5]

Good luck with your Nobel effort.

[papsrus]

It sounds like a wonderful idea. Anytime anyone has the balls to step up and do something positive for the music and its heritage, it's a good thing. Just from the little nuggets a person can pick up by noddling around here, it's obvious there's a ton of knowledge deserving of wider recognition, or some sort of broader outlet.

[Larry Kart]

let me explain a bit further why this is so important, though I understand Larry's point - recognition for those who have done the work leads to much more: it leads to EXAMINATION of the work and perpetuation of the work and the creation of a more institutionalized understanding of the work. And that, despite what it sounds like, is not a bad thing. It creates a sense that this music - and not just jazz, but all of American vernacular music - is important and worthy of respect - and it helps lead to not just recognition but dissemination of the music. There is, of course, an extremley important racial/historical component here - I mean, does anyone here know who Buddy Boy Hawkins was? Or Julius Daniels? Or Hambone Willie Newbern? Maybe a few do but probably 99 percent don't. And the result is a kind of cultural genocide, a destruction of a whole culture through neglect. And these things are part of the same problem and process. So that's why I have decided I'm going to try to do something. Because to those of us here the music is not just some kind of theoretical construct, it is a way of life.

OK -- " EXAMINATION of the work and perpetuation of the work" simply means, or should mean, USE of the work -- and this will only happen if other people actually find it useful to themselves. For myself, I've had plenty of that here (and in some other places, too, from people that I think of as friends, even if I don't actually know them face to face), and it feels and is quite different from "a institutionalized understanding of the work." Not that real use can't arise in an institutionalized setting, people who make their ways there are people too, but an "institutionalized understanding" that leads to real use would I think demand that the institution turn itself into something that it is not and probably cannot be -- a savannah, say, rather than a zoo with cages and keepers. Again, my old friend Teddy Adorno (a.k.a. Linus Van Pelt) had a good fix on this:

"Anyone who takes up a position in the so-called humanities ... is inspired by hopes for the intellect, for something different, something unspoiled, ultimately something absolute.... But his profession will drive out all hope. not simply because of the necessity of submitting to the hierarchy ... but also because of the nature of scholarship itself, which in the name of scholarship negates the very spirit which it promises.... Resentment as the basic attitude of the university teacher is therefore objectively determined and almost unavoidable. The solo compensation [in Germany, in the mid-1960s] is the social prestige of the university professor, which still survives, a factor that may have led to his choice of profession in the first place."

I don't think you can INTERNALLY "reform" outfits like the NEA or the academy in general (not the same things, I know). There are pockets, thank the Lord, but pockets is what they are and probably must remain. Lying behind this, perhaps, is a additional simple fact: We're talking about more or less communal musics that are now more or less without communities. That certainly doesn't negate their value, nor does it mean that we shouldn't pay all the loving attention to them that we can and want to, but it does or should mean that we do this without illusions -- and the dreams and resentments that so often fuel them.

[JSngry]

We're talking about more or less communal musics that are now more or less without communities. That certainly doesn't negate their value, nor does it mean that we shouldn't pay all the loving attention to them that we can and want to, but it does or should mean that we do this without illusions -- and the dreams and resentments that so often fuel them.

Word to the mutha-fuckin g.

[AllenLowe]

yes, I have no illusions - but I see things like the Rutgers Institute of Jazz Studies and the UNC Southern Folklore Center, who have done major and important work. And there are repositories of recordings held in private hands that will simply likely disappear after the holders - like joe Bussard, who has the largest collection of 78s in the universe - die. And people will continue to read only the official records and the official manuscripts unless some effort is made to steer them other-ways.

and this is not futile - look at the changes in the last 25 years in the reissuing and understanding of prior music. We have had more distribution of blues, ragtime, jazz, medicine show song, songsters, than at any time in our post-War history. Which proves that it can be done without academic taint. And though it has been done mainly independently (though far from completely so) as we get further from the sources it will be harder to preserve (yes, and I know here I will get the old responses about moving forward, arguments about the uses of history, but please spare me guys, we've argued this before). And if we want to make sure this history is not left to the Marsalis and Crouch-types than we have to make some effort ourselves. Look at the work of people like Pete Lowery, Bruce Bastin, Lawrence Levine, Chris Albertson, yourself, Nessa, Larry Cohn, Marshall Wyatt, Dave Freeman, Chris Strachowitz, and numerous other collectors and intellectuals who refused to let this stuff gather dust, literally and figuratively

I hate academia as much (no, probably MORE) than most. I believe this stuff needs to be done by citizens so I think, Larry, that your wholesale rejection is a bit self defeating (what would Frank Rich say?). Otherwise it will continue to receive the dead-museum treatment of the Lincoln Center crew. There is too much at stake for us to leave it to them. Anything else is completely self defeating.

Edited February 3, 2009 by AllenLowe

[AllenLowe]

"Anyone who takes up a position in the so-called humanities ... is inspired by hopes for the intellect, for something different, something unspoiled, ultimately something absolute.... But his profession will drive out all hope. not simply because of the necessity of submitting to the hierarchy ... but also because of the nature of scholarship itself, which in the name of scholarship negates the very spirit which it promises.... Resentment as the basic attitude of the university teacher is therefore objectively determined and almost unavoidable. The solo compensation [in Germany, in the mid-1960s] is the social prestige of the university professor, which still survives, a factor that may have led to his choice of profession in the first place."

this is old news and far from accurate in many places today - ask John Szwed, Bruce bastin, Pete Lowry, Lewis Porter, Dan Morgenstern. the relationship to academia is, at least in many places, much altered (and that sounds like a 50 year old quote if I read it correctly).

[Larry Kart]

yes, I have no illusions - but I see things like the Rutgers Institute of Jazz Studies and the UNC Southern Folklore Center, who have done major and important work. And there are repositories of recordings held in private hands that will simply likely disappear after the holders - like joe Bussard, who has the largest collection of 78s in the universe - die. And people will continue to read only the official records and the official manuscripts unless some effort is made to steer them other-ways.

and this is not futile - look at the changes in the last 25 years in the reissuing and understanding of prior music. We have had more distribution of blues, ragtime, jazz, medicine show song, songsters, than at any time in our post-War history. Which proves that it can be done without academic taint. And though it has been done mainly independently (though far from completely so) as we get further from the sources it will be harder to preserve (yes, and I know here I will get the old responses about moving forward, arguments about the uses of history, but please spare me guys, we've argued this before). And if we want to make sure this history is not left to the Marsalis and Crouch-types than we have to make some effort ourselves. Look at the work of people like Pete Lowery, Bruce Bastin, Lawrence Levine, Chris Albertson, yourself, Nessa, Larry Cohn, Marshall Wyatt, Dave Freeman, Chris Strachowitz, and numerous other collectors and intellectuals who refused to let this stuff gather dust, literally and figuratively

I hate academia as much (no, probably MORE) than most. I believe this stuff needs to be done by citizens so I think, Larry, that your wholesale rejection is a bit self defeating (what would Frank Rich say?). Otherwise it will continue to receive the dead-museum treatment of the Lincoln Center crew. There is too much at stake for us to leave it to them. Anything else is completely self defeating.

Yes -- but make what KINDS of effort? Lincoln Center will fall of its own weight and essential aesthetic irrelevance (or conceivably it won't), but any effort that's aimed at bringing it to the ground will, if successful, almost certainly generate another sort of Lincoln Center. By and large, in the world one doesn't wrest away in order to give away or even to distribute. Moreover, the nature and structure of such outfits is what gives them access to what might be distributed; take away the former, and very soon there will be nothing left except the condos.

I'm happy that Rutgers for one exists, but Rutgers without Dan Morgenstern or someone like him? It's not that I'm rejecting academia wholesale -- I certainly don't hate it but merely would prefer to evade it (that you say you do hate academia more than most is not necessarily a good sign). It's that I'm not kidding myself about the difference between actual work and the circumstances under which it seems to me to be done, and the world of "prizes" and "gifts" -- of that which is bestowed or wormed out of, rather than exchanges based on common curiosities and interests. Also, though I shouldn't say this until I finish reading George Lewis' book, his apparent belief in a kind of burgeoning "replacement academy" -- well, to me that seems self-defeating.

[AllenLowe]

well, I guess it's a suicide mission -

see you all in HELL

[Cliff Englewood]

well, I guess it's a suicide mission -

see you all in HELL

Just out of curiosity, if this is your "new" mission, what was your "old" mission, and did you complete it?

[Neal Pomea]

Interesting remarks about Joe Bussard. I think his collection will stay in private hands. He doesn't think archives and libraries make things accessible enough. In his own way, he has made a lot accessible.

What you wrote about "cultural genocide" (or disappearance) is true for Cajun and Creole culture. Those who monopolize and hoard cultural treasures for which there has long been no market -- well, what's moral about that?

[Chuck Nessa]

It survives.

[Neal Pomea]

Congratulations on your preservation efforts, but in a lot of cases it disappears.

Edited February 4, 2009 by It Should be You

[AllenLowe]

well, one thing that was afoot years ago was an effort to force record companies to disclose their holdings - which in the cases of companies like Sony and BMG (or whoever owns it now) is monumental (for example, if you're interested in Cajun music, the 1920s stuff released briefly by both Sony and BMG was great stuff, amounting to just two or three cds, however. I think the COuntry Music Foundation put out another, which I have somewhere). The industry, of course, declined the request.

There is gold in those vaults - incredible American music on metal parts and other masters, test pressings, et al. To hear some of this is to be transported in a time machine, to feel that one is in the same room with the Carter Family, or Amede Ardoin, or Louis Armstrong, or Fiddlin John Carson. As I do my blues project I am discovering the amazing stuff that was issued on LPs - things that sound like early-generation King Oliver, Morton in terrific sound, the Original Memphis 5, 1920s Johnny Dodds in near-h fi, a test pressing of Buddy Moss that makes it sound like he's in the same room as I, a monumental Charlie Green trombone solo from 1926 - and some stuff that went up in smoke in the Universal fire, like Zach Wyte playing West End Blues in great clarity, and an original master of it It's Tight Like That (Tampa Red and Georgia Tom Dorsey in all their 1927 glory); an amazing Duke issue of The Mooch in which you can hear chairs squeaking -

this, CLiff, is all part of my new mission. The old one was to get your mother off my back (or at least off of hers) -

Edited February 4, 2009 by AllenLowe

[Juliewells]

I do agree with your thoughts Allen so best wishes for your new mission

Semi Acoustic Guitars

Edited December 8, 2009 by Juliewells

[AllenLowe]

thanks, at least somebody here doesn't think I'm crazy - but I do have my cyanide pill ready -