Brad Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Dude, most Yankee fans can't even tie their shoes or count to two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Yankee bashing is mysterious or suprising as to its extent? You've got to be kidding! Take 26 World Championships, add in the most obnoxious, arrogant fans in the world, plus an insufferably smug owner who buys pennants like Dennis Koslowski bought companies and the reason why people despize the Yankees ought to be self-evident. Well, I can't vouch for Yankee fans elsewhere--I speak only of those in this community, and it seems to me they've been nothing but respectful. As for arrogance (talking players here, not fans) it was a Red Sox player who famously said, "Nothing against the Marlins or Cubs, but whoever wins (the ALCS) will win the Series." And the "buying championships" line just doesn't wash for the mid-to-late 90's teams; most of those players were homegrown or acquired in trades. I don't think there's anything mysterious or puzzling about the roots of it; I just think it's boring & kind of mindless at this point, and that the current players/manager don't deserve it. I enjoy great sports rivalries, like the Yankees & the Red Sox, and I understand how fierce one's passion can be for a favored team. I've just never bought into the hatred trip (well, ok, came close to it with the Cowboys in football, who vacillated between calling themselves "America's team" and "God's team"--there's arrogance for you!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Ghost, the fact of the matter is that Walker, who made the comment you reference, immediately said that he has all respect for the National League teams, he just thinks the two best teams are the Yankees and Sox. His comment wasn't nearly as arrogant as you make it seem, considering that he covered his hide in the same paragraph. As for buying pennants, who's fooling who? Arizona bought one World Series. The Marlins bought one the first time around. The Yankees bought what was it, four or five? and its not like its the first time they did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 I just took a look at the roster of the '96 Yanks, and there were hardly any free agents on it. Again, almost all of the key players in the 1996-2000 run were either homegrown or acquired through trades. Yes, you could say that Steinbrenner "bought" the '77 and '78 titles, to some extent, by signing Reggie Jackson and Goose Gossage. There were no players of similar significance acquired through free agency on the late-90s teams. (With the possible exception of Orlando Hernandez, who was signed away from Cuba, as opposed to another MBL team.) Ironically enough, Steinbrenner did sign some big-ticket players in the last couple of years--Mussina & Giambi--and hasn't won a Series since. I still think it was arrogant of Walker to say what he did, but that's a matter of personal judgement, I suppose. I just know that I would've been horrified if any of the Yankee players had said something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Not sure I buy into the concept of buying a pennant?Super Bowl/etc. All you can buy is the players, and that's no guarantee of anything except a large payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Ghost, I respect your opinion in your musical matters. You're very knowledgeable there. But unless you've lived through these things like Dan has as a lifelong Red Sox fan or actually lived here in New York, I don't think you really understand the rivalry. Yes, the Yankees have some players that I like; I'd love to have Torre back as our manager and I like Jeter and what's not to like about Bernie. But there's a deep rivalry between the teams and the fans as well. And if you don't think Yankee haters aren't going to be gleeful about this loss, then you don't really understand what sports following is all about. Let me tell you, the glee that people feel about the Yankees losing is probably matched by the feeling that Cardinal fans have about the Cubs losing. That is a rivalry as intense as this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Just as a further aside, I'm also a soccer fan, especially of British football and I root for Arsenal which is a fierce competitor of Manchester United. This rivalry is akin to Red Sox-Yankees. While I enjoy British football, I don't begin to fully appreciate the deep rivalry that these two teams have. And it's deep and it's heated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Geez, Brad... for someone who gripes about Yankees fans' arrogance, don't you think you yourself are sounding a wee-bit arrogant here? First of all, a general point : You can't buy a title! This year proved that, as did last year. You might "buy" part of y'r roster, which is an investment. Highest payroll doesn't insure a championship (see Portland Trailblazers) . I'm merely defending Ghost O', here, not speaking for him. Ghost might not agree with each assertion made by the Yankees bashers, and certainly those that are antiquated (more applicable way back when)...but does that mean he "doesn't understand what sports following is all about"?. It's about something different to everyone, isn't it? Is it "your way or the highway", Brad? There are some points on each side of the argument worth listening to, and nobody is denying the existence of any rivalries. At least try to be objective! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Not sure I buy into the concept of buying a pennant?Super Bowl/etc. All you can buy is the players, and that's no guarantee of anything except a large payroll. No shit. Look at the Mets........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Hold on there double M. You misunderstood what I was saying. This was to Ghost's earlier point in which he more or less said that he didn't see the players as obnoxious and I agree with him. Torre seems like the manager any team would want to have and I wouldn't mind having him back. Doesn't mean I'm going out to try to buy him. I also happen to like Jeter and Bernie as players. However, they are Yankees and should stay as Yankees. I couldn't see them in any other uniform, frankly. However, pennants can be bought. George does a good job of that usually, although I would be less than objective if I didn't recognize that most of his important players are home grown. You can now return to your Yankee lovin's ways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Just as a further aside, I'm also a soccer fan, especially of British football and I root for Arsenal which is a fierce competitor of Manchester United. This rivalry is akin to Red Sox-Yankees. While I enjoy British football, I don't begin to fully appreciate the deep rivalry that these two teams have. And it's deep and it's heated. As a football fanatic here in the UK, let me say that I depise both Manchester United and Arsenal with a deep passion. Sorry to take the thread off topic. One of those grievances which really has to be aired! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Red, Does that mean you're a Liverpool fan. Did you see the article awhile ago in 442 that really is no rivalry between Man U and Arsenal because Arsenal is a johnny come lately but that the real rivalry is Liverpool and Man U? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 well the parade was great and for those of you who could not be there i thought i'd bring the parade to you! here's trader jack: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 mvp beckett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 pavano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 and pudge. btw next year our ace (a.j. burnett) should be healthy so watch out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFrank Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 My prediction: Marlins = one-hit wonders (see 2002 Anaheim Angels) ... but that's just MY opinion. I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 My prediction: Marlins = one-hit wonders (see 2002 Anaheim Angels) ... but that's just MY opinion. I could be wrong. lets see we won in '97 and '03. at least say we are 2-hit wonders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Brad - no, I'm afraid I detest Liverpool as well (and Leeds, and Everton, but I don't have time for that conversation..!) I'm Chelsea myself. So a little dazed and confused after Mr. Abramovich's spending exploits in the Summer, but ultimately, I guess I can't complain! It's interesting. My initial reaction to your post was that Arsenal and Man U weren't really analogous to Boston - NY, but then I realised that in fact, I didn't really understand the Boston - NY rivalry. I'm not sure I agree that the really big rivalry for United is either Liverpool or Arsenal. I would say it's either Manchester City or Leeds... Anyway Brad, I'll have to keep my head down if you're an Arsenal man, since your boys turned us over a couple of weeks ago (and always do!)!!! Mind you, you pushed it a bit fine going to 9-8 on penalties with Rotherham in the Carling Cup last night! By the way, did you see that extraordinary bit of 'goalkeeping' from Lehmann in the European game last week! Crazy stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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