Guy Berger Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 What do people think of this tune/performance? I read one or two reviews of this tune that were pretty dismissive - I guess the melody/harmony are pretty basic and the rhythm is funky. But as far as son-of-Sidewinder tunes, I think it's damn good. Anybody else agree with me? Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 It's the Shorter album I've listened most to over the years. Great tune. I recall that the album gets inexplicably dismissed as a Coltrane imitation in one of the standard books on free jazz (Ekkehard Jost's or Litweiler's? I forget). Can't figure that one out, either. The one bad thing about the album is that the piano sound is even weirder than usual for a RvG production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 I have no problems with anything on or about that album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Me either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 But as far as son-of-Sidewinder tunes, I think it's damn good. Congratulations, sidewinder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Love the fiery insistent drumming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Have always loved this record! It's probably Wayne's most overtly swinging session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) Adam's Apple is my favourite among Shorter's Blue Notes: Each track has a different groove and mood, displaying a wide range of what you can do on the tenor in a quartet setting at the time. My first recommendation for an introduction to his work. Playing a little funky was put down only by the purest of the purists - it was part of his palette. What he does with it, sticking closer to thematic improvisation than simply running licks over the changes or going into Coltrane's direction, or playing funky standard licks - that's what makes it interesting. Edited March 23, 2009 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 IIRC, this has never been / will never be one of Cook-Morton's (PENGUIN GUIDE) favorites. But it was the album which "allowed me" to understand some pretty basic features of Wayne's music... the obliquity, tonal choices, the way he navigates the Coltrane influence... the title track being my main point of entry. These days, I'm more likely to turn to THE SOOTHSAYER or ETCETERA or Moncur's SOME OTHER STUFF when I want to hear Wayne from this period, but ADAM'S APPLE is the first point on the circle for me. I wonder how things might have turned out, however, had I been a more savvy listener back then. At the time, I'd not heard THE SIDEWINDER and knew nothing of the BN "formula" (if that is indeed what it was) of the day. Perhaps my not having a sense of that larger context was important to my initial appreciation. Finally, I've always thought Joe Chambers sounds wonderful on this record, and I actually prefer his work with Wayne to Elvin's. Any other thoughts on what Chambers is doing on this session? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 The thing I "feel" about Chambers with Wayne (and with Bobby, et al) is that he's a composer at work. He is inside the composition and he's composing his contribution in a way that someone who is "just" a drummer (that is not also a writer and instrumentalist on other instruments) just wouldn't. Ears wide open, mind in charge. That said, on some of the pieces in this release he's just cooking and rocking his ass off, and always with that sensibility, as if he could turn on a dime if he got the signal. Chambers . . . what a drummer and musical mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldB3 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Anybody who would dismiss this record has probably never bothered to play side two or the second half of the CD. Even though the first half is like a Wayne Shorter Greatest Hits Album and I love those tunes its Chief Crazy Horse and The Collector that make this one of his best, what more do you need? Interesting writing, great energy. I also love how those tracks point to where he would go on Etcetera which is a classic. I don't play my 60's Blue Notes as much as I use to but I never grow tired of this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 I don't get why some folks want to bitch about all the "boogaloo" pieces. I really don't. I mean, ok, yeah, I do, but it seems too simple and too...unmusically astute to lump them all together, like they're all the same. Because they're not. Then again, some folks just gotta have something to complain about, don't they. But if a tune like "Adam's Apple" is the low point of your day, I think you probably gotta be living a pretty charmed life in the first place, at least on that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:.impossible Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 My brother gave this to me for my birthday one year. It was my introduction to Wayne Shorter, the band leader. I turned around and gave that copy to an alto player in town about a year later. He gave me some Dexter Gordon albums. Along with Side 2, I always loved listening to that Jimmy Rowles tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 This remains my favorite Shorter album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Good album, good tune, IMHO. Maybe the tune is in a "Sidewinder" mold, but ain't nothin' wrong with that, especially at this late date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 I don't get why some folks want to bitch about all the "boogaloo" pieces. I really don't. I mean, ok, yeah, I do, but it seems too simple and too...unmusically astute to lump them all together, like they're all the same. Because they're not. Then again, some folks just gotta have something to complain about, don't they. But if a tune like "Adam's Apple" is the low point of your day, I think you probably gotta be living a pretty charmed life in the first place, at least on that day. I agree, and I should have put at least air quotes around <<savvy>> in my initial response... <<jaded>> being the more appropriate descriptor anyway. My main point being I was glad to be able to hear ADAM'S APPLE with fresh ears. I think some of that lack of appreciation represents a certain anti-BN-adulation sentiment. Silly, and has little to do with the music and everything to do with the mythology of marketing. There's nothing wrong and much, much right with dance music (and don't the original liner notes to this record reference the "contemporary dance"?) and if you leave our considerations of booty-moving -- to employ the parlance of a slightly later era -- you end up with an incomplete and distorted picture anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldB3 Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) As for the title track itself Wayne's solo is just so damn sweet I can't see how anybody could not enjoy it. Its also a fun tune to play but getting the right feel/groove for it is not as easy as it sounds. Edited March 24, 2009 by WorldB3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 I think that back in the day (which is to say, right after "The Sidewinder" became a surprise hit and for the next five years or so) people were sick of all these funky jazz "Sidewinder" knockoffs that were apparently just trying to jump on a perceived bandwagon. THIS far down that road, however, we have the luxury of just judging these tracks as music, and by that measure, "Adam's Apple" comes up smelling pretty darn good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 As for the title track itself Wayne's solo is just so damn sweet I can't see how anybody could not enjoy it. There are jazzfans aplenty who wouldn't listen to a tune with a boogaloo groove with earplugs, no matter how sweet the solo is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 This remains my favorite Shorter album. Mine too. AA was a point of entry for me into the whole BN universe (along with The Real McCoy, Midnight Blue, and Blakey Night at Birdland), so I first heard it with fresh ears, and it still makes me smile today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 I think that back in the day (which is to say, right after "The Sidewinder" became a surprise hit and for the next five years or so) people were sick of all these funky jazz "Sidewinder" knockoffs that were apparently just trying to jump on a perceived bandwagon. THIS far down that road, however, we have the luxury of just judging these tracks as music, and by that measure, "Adam's Apple" comes up smelling pretty darn good. I know what you're saying, and agree, but otoh, judging any music as music, apart from any hype that might be in the air at any given time, including the present, is not so much a luxury as it is a challenge. And if it's a challenge that can cause your friends to look at you like you've lost your mind (or worse!), then it's also a challenge that can get you to hearing all musics, including the generally-acknowledged "classics" with fresh ears. So go for it, I say, down to and including the pop music of today. Challenge yourself to hear it today as you think you might hear it 25 years or so from now, either as 25 years older than you are today, or as somebody who's your age now, 25 years from now. Hell, it's just sound. Most of it can mean anything you'll let it mean. But you gotta be honest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 But you gotta be honest! Yes. I honestly hate Madonna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 I do too. But I like some of her records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 2009 I will get my Shorter BN collection in order Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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