MLB 2009 Season

[Tim McG]

And there is no evidence Bonds did either.

Speculation is all anyone has proven and if the media, HOF, and MLB let ManRam and the BoSox off the hook then this MLB drug testing program is just a biased piece of garbage.

Is there really "no" evidence Bonds did?

None.

The government's got nothing on Bonds and they know it.

You are an absolute fucking fool and every single person who reads this thread or the steroid thread has reached the exact same conclusion.

And anyone who deludes themselves into believing Manny wasn't juicing when he was with the BoSox is, and I quoute you, "an absolute fucking fool".

50 games, Dan. 50.

Read it and weep. Manny is dirty and got caught. Bonds wasn't and never spent ONE day on suspension. Not a single day.

The BoSox need to give back those WS rings.

Edited May 11, 2009 by GoodSpeak

[Dan Gould]

And there is no evidence Bonds did either.

Speculation is all anyone has proven and if the media, HOF, and MLB let ManRam and the BoSox off the hook then this MLB drug testing program is just a biased piece of garbage.

Is there really "no" evidence Bonds did?

None.

The government's got nothing on Bonds and they know it.

You are an absolute fucking fool and every single person who reads this thread or the steroid thread has reached the exact same conclusion.

And anyone who deludes themselves into believing Manny wasn't juicing when he was with the BoSox is, and I quoute you, [is] "an absolute fucking fool".

50 games, Dan. 50.

Read it and weep. Manny is dirty and got caught. Bonds wasn't and never spent ONE day on suspension.

The BoSox need to give back those WS rings.

You remain a contemptible joke.

50 DODGER games doesn't mean a damn thing to me.

He NEVER tested positive while with the Red Sox; its a team game and team accomplishments, unless effected by steroid use by most or all of the members, are not remotely effected by steroid accusations that have no basis in any evidence whatsoever.

Now do we really have to talk about the evidence for Bonds?

BALCO - every client received steroids and used them.

Greg Anderson - every client received steroids and used them.

Doping calendar - Bonds initials on it; cities and dates matched the Giants schedule; identical calendars prepared for and used by other steroid cheats.

Test results - multiple tests ordered by BALCO show that Bonds used steroids. Enhanced techniques applied to an MLB sponsored test gave a positive result for Bonds' sample.

Performance after 1998 - Bonds transformed from a modest slugger to a historic one at a time that every other player in history has declined. You may think he's just a great player, everybody else who isn't a Giants fan knows the implications of Bonds' feat and knows the reality of his steroid use.

If Anderson refuses to testify at trial about the urine samples, doping calendars, etc., it is relevant only to the legal question of whether Bonds committed perjury when he denied knowingly using steroids. It is completely irrelevant to the question of whether Bonds used steroids. The evidence exists, it is unmistakable, and no one with a brain would look at the MOUNTAIN of evidence of Bonds' use and assert that there is "nothing" on Bonds.

[Dan Gould]

Well I'll be the first to admit that I was certain Papelbon would have his first blown save in that spot. But three straight strikeouts, all swinging, suggests that maybe, just maybe, he really has found his command with this new delivery. Certainly earlier in the year he wasn't getting those swings and misses (and he wasn't hitting 97-98 either).

You know, Saito was supposed to be the alternative closer but with his spotty performance, I am wondering if Daniel Bard gets that job in about a month or so ...

[Tim McG]

And there is no evidence Bonds did either.

Speculation is all anyone has proven and if the media, HOF, and MLB let ManRam and the BoSox off the hook then this MLB drug testing program is just a biased piece of garbage.

Is there really "no" evidence Bonds did?

None.

The government's got nothing on Bonds and they know it.

You are an absolute fucking fool and every single person who reads this thread or the steroid thread has reached the exact same conclusion.

And anyone who deludes themselves into believing Manny wasn't juicing when he was with the BoSox is, and I quoute you, [is] "an absolute fucking fool".

50 games, Dan. 50.

Read it and weep. Manny is dirty and got caught. Bonds wasn't and never spent ONE day on suspension.

The BoSox need to give back those WS rings.

You remain a contemptible joke.

50 DODGER games doesn't mean a damn thing to me.

He NEVER tested positive while with the Red Sox; its a team game and team accomplishments, unless effected by steroid use by most or all of the members, are not remotely effected by steroid accusations that have no basis in any evidence whatsoever.

Now do we really have to talk about the evidence for Bonds?

BALCO - every client received steroids and used them.

Greg Anderson - every client received steroids and used them.

Doping calendar - Bonds initials on it; cities and dates matched the Giants schedule; identical calendars prepared for and used by other steroid cheats.

Test results - multiple tests ordered by BALCO show that Bonds used steroids. Enhanced techniques applied to an MLB sponsored test gave a positive result for Bonds' sample.

Performance after 1998 - Bonds transformed from a modest slugger to a historic one at a time that every other player in history has declined. You may think he's just a great player, everybody else who isn't a Giants fan knows the implications of Bonds' feat and knows the reality of his steroid use.

If Anderson refuses to testify at trial about the urine samples, doping calendars, etc., it is relevant only to the legal question of whether Bonds committed perjury when he denied knowingly using steroids. It is completely irrelevant to the question of whether Bonds used steroids. The evidence exists, it is unmistakable, and no one with a brain would look at the MOUNTAIN of evidence of Bonds' use and assert that there is "nothing" on Bonds.

Yeah?

Prove it.

The MLB seems to see it differently, Big Boy.

Don't waste my time.

Edited May 11, 2009 by GoodSpeak

[Dan Gould]

And there is no evidence Bonds did either.

Speculation is all anyone has proven and if the media, HOF, and MLB let ManRam and the BoSox off the hook then this MLB drug testing program is just a biased piece of garbage.

Is there really "no" evidence Bonds did?

None.

The government's got nothing on Bonds and they know it.

You are an absolute fucking fool and every single person who reads this thread or the steroid thread has reached the exact same conclusion.

And anyone who deludes themselves into believing Manny wasn't juicing when he was with the BoSox is, and I quoute you, [is] "an absolute fucking fool".

50 games, Dan. 50.

Read it and weep. Manny is dirty and got caught. Bonds wasn't and never spent ONE day on suspension.

The BoSox need to give back those WS rings.

You remain a contemptible joke.

50 DODGER games doesn't mean a damn thing to me.

He NEVER tested positive while with the Red Sox; its a team game and team accomplishments, unless effected by steroid use by most or all of the members, are not remotely effected by steroid accusations that have no basis in any evidence whatsoever.

Now do we really have to talk about the evidence for Bonds?

BALCO - every client received steroids and used them.

Greg Anderson - every client received steroids and used them.

Doping calendar - Bonds initials on it; cities and dates matched the Giants schedule; identical calendars prepared for and used by other steroid cheats.

Test results - multiple tests ordered by BALCO show that Bonds used steroids. Enhanced techniques applied to an MLB sponsored test gave a positive result for Bonds' sample.

Performance after 1998 - Bonds transformed from a modest slugger to a historic one at a time that every other player in history has declined. You may think he's just a great player, everybody else who isn't a Giants fan knows the implications of Bonds' feat and knows the reality of his steroid use.

If Anderson refuses to testify at trial about the urine samples, doping calendars, etc., it is relevant only to the legal question of whether Bonds committed perjury when he denied knowingly using steroids. It is completely irrelevant to the question of whether Bonds used steroids. The evidence exists, it is unmistakable, and no one with a brain would look at the MOUNTAIN of evidence of Bonds' use and assert that there is "nothing" on Bonds.

Yeah?

Prove it.

The evidence I've cited has PROVEN THAT BONDS TOOK STEROIDS to literally tens of millions of baseball fans who do not live in the Bay area. I'll go in with millions of people with no vested interest in defending a hometown ball player.

[Tim McG]

So...what's going on with the Oakland A's this year?

Like they can't even buy a win.

Wow.

Edited May 11, 2009 by GoodSpeak

[papsrus]

Well I'll be the first to admit that I was certain Papelbon would have his first blown save in that spot. But three straight strikeouts, all swinging, suggests that maybe, just maybe, he really has found his command with this new delivery. Certainly earlier in the year he wasn't getting those swings and misses (and he wasn't hitting 97-98 either).

You know, Saito was supposed to be the alternative closer but with his spotty performance, I am wondering if Daniel Bard gets that job in about a month or so ...

Watched the 8th and top of the 9th. Papelbon looked shaky walking Aki, then the bad throw to first, then giving up the hit to Bartlett, but it was like he flipped a switch after that and nothing was hittable. I think Maddon might have been looking down the road a bit by sticking with Upton in that situation, trying to give the guy some confidence. He looked over-matched. I don't know who was available, but I sure wasn't excited to see him coming up.

[WorldB3]

So...what's going on with the Oakland A's this year?

Like they can't even buy a win.

Wow.

They are absolute dog shit. The tin foil hat person in my thinks there are doing it on purpose so attendance can get worst and they can go to Bud and say there is no way we can compete in this market and stadium. The owner cares more about selling the team and making a profit then having a winner.

Its an odd thing to deal with because as much as I want to support my team I don't want to give a one f-ing red cent to the ownership.

[Tim McG]

So...what's going on with the Oakland A's this year?

Like they can't even buy a win.

Wow.

They are absolute dog shit. The tin foil hat person in my thinks there are doing it on purpose so attendance can get worst and they can go to Bud and say there is no way we can compete in this market and stadium. The owner cares more about selling the team and making a profit then having a winner.

Its an odd thing to deal with because as much as I want to support my team I don't want to give a one f-ing red cent to the ownership.

Is the pitching the issue or the hitting?

I only catch the odd game or two now and again, but it's not like they're getting blown out every game.

It just seems strange for a team that is usually in the hunt in the AL West.

[Chalupa]

You know the Atlanta Braves got a bunch better this off season. And if they were still playing in the NL West they would have a good shot for the playoffs. BUT...... they're not. So the best they can hope for - right now - is 3rd place. And if you have any doubts about this I refer you to today's game vs. the Phillies. Vazquez gave the Braves bullpen a 7 run lead going into the 7th. And they blew it. Atlanta will not make the playoffs with this bullpen. It needs a big time make over. And until that happens they can forget about the postseason**.

** See New York Mets 2008.

That was one of the worst losses in a long time...well, back to last year at least! Seriously the bullpen is not as bad as you saw. Peter Moylan was great in 2007, 1.82 ERA, but he had Tommy John surgery 11 months ago! Really should be rehabbing in AAA. And Booby had said he wasn't going to pitch on back to back nights, and was warming up in each game, but just pitched today. In his feeble little brain if you don't come in a game, you didn't do a thing to stress your arm. And the one Loogy(Gonzo can't count, he's the closer) O'Flaherty ...he got 4 outs yesterday, then came in today. Not smart. 8 guys in the bullpen. Campillo is really a starter,(3.91 ERA in 25 starts last year) did nothing to lose the job this year, just have too many starters right now. He walked 2 in less than an inning today, 38 last year in 158 innings. Blaine Boyer and Moylan have 3 ### in place of E.R.A. stats, that can't be good!

Should have re-signed Will Ohman, but the brain trust must really feel great about saving that 1 + million

I don't know where we will end up...all the talk about the Marlins this year, how people think they have the best starters in the NL East...they may once again end up in first. Well, the playoffs, they usually get in via the wildcard, right???? No one else really has that good of a rotation(Braves would if Tommy Hanson was in the ML, instead of AAA)

So I was watching the Phillies' bullpen gift wrap a win for the Braves yesterday and the local broadcast put up a stat RE: the Braves bullpen. Can't remember the numbers but basically they said that the Braves had the worst ERA* of any bullpen in the majors for the first 11 games of the season. Since then they have had the lowest ERA*.

Edit *= or maybe it was opponents BA. Anyway, the point is that they have really improved.

Edited May 11, 2009 by J.H. Deeley

[PHILLYQ]

So...what's going on with the Oakland A's this year?

Like they can't even buy a win.

Wow.

They are absolute dog shit. The tin foil hat person in my thinks there are doing it on purpose so attendance can get worst and they can go to Bud and say there is no way we can compete in this market and stadium. The owner cares more about selling the team and making a profit then having a winner.

Its an odd thing to deal with because as much as I want to support my team I don't want to give a one f-ing red cent to the ownership.

Are they trying to get a new stadium? Has everyone else caught up to Billy Beane?

[Dan Gould]

Sad report in the Globe about the catcher who got hit in the head by Jose Offerman when he went postal in that Independent league game. Guy's life was destroyed.

PORTLAND, Maine - He used to catch 95-mile-per-hour fastballs fired by Pedro Martínez, Bret Saberhagen, and Jon Lester in spring training. Now former Red Sox prospect John Nathans catches a large red rubber ball lobbed underhand by a physical therapist . . . sometimes.

Other times it bounces off his face and he has to stop because he's dizzy or nauseated. Or worse, he has to go home, pull the covers over his head to shut out the world, and try again tomorrow. He can't tolerate much outside stimuli.

On Aug. 14, 2007, Nathans was struck in the head attempting to stop a bat-wielding Jose Offerman, the former Red Sox second baseman, who charged the mound after being hit by a pitch in a game between the Bridgeport Blues and the Long Island Ducks in the independent Atlantic League.

Morehere.

[Chalupa]

Offerman belongs in jail.

[WorldB3]

Are they trying to get a new stadium? Has everyone else caught up to Billy Beane?

They are sort of trying, the Fremont stadium feel through (which is good, bad location, no public transpo and it would have been for corporate fans only), I doubt Oakland and the owners will be able to work something out as the owners want the county to fund everything and California is broke. So that leaves San Jose but the economy isn't so great right now for corporate money as it was when they first pursued San Jose.

People float the idea of them moving to Portland Oregon or Las Vegas or maybe North Carolina but I don't see it. Someone needs to tell Bud that even though Pirates have a wonderful new stadium they still draw less than the A's. Best plan would be for the Raiders to leave (they are always blacked out for home games as is) and redo the existing coliseum and give it a face life like the Angels and Royals have done.

[BERIGAN]

You know the Atlanta Braves got a bunch better this off season. And if they were still playing in the NL West they would have a good shot for the playoffs. BUT...... they're not. So the best they can hope for - right now - is 3rd place. And if you have any doubts about this I refer you to today's game vs. the Phillies. Vazquez gave the Braves bullpen a 7 run lead going into the 7th. And they blew it. Atlanta will not make the playoffs with this bullpen. It needs a big time make over. And until that happens they can forget about the postseason**.

** See New York Mets 2008.

That was one of the worst losses in a long time...well, back to last year at least! Seriously the bullpen is not as bad as you saw. Peter Moylan was great in 2007, 1.82 ERA, but he had Tommy John surgery 11 months ago! Really should be rehabbing in AAA. And Booby had said he wasn't going to pitch on back to back nights, and was warming up in each game, but just pitched today. In his feeble little brain if you don't come in a game, you didn't do a thing to stress your arm. And the one Loogy(Gonzo can't count, he's the closer) O'Flaherty ...he got 4 outs yesterday, then came in today. Not smart. 8 guys in the bullpen. Campillo is really a starter,(3.91 ERA in 25 starts last year) did nothing to lose the job this year, just have too many starters right now. He walked 2 in less than an inning today, 38 last year in 158 innings. Blaine Boyer and Moylan have 3 ### in place of E.R.A. stats, that can't be good!

Should have re-signed Will Ohman, but the brain trust must really feel great about saving that 1 + million

I don't know where we will end up...all the talk about the Marlins this year, how people think they have the best starters in the NL East...they may once again end up in first. Well, the playoffs, they usually get in via the wildcard, right???? No one else really has that good of a rotation(Braves would if Tommy Hanson was in the ML, instead of AAA)

So I was watching the Phillies' bullpen gift wrap a win for the Braves yesterday and the local broadcast put up a stat RE: the Braves bullpen. Can't remember the numbers but basically they said that the Braves had the worst ERA* of any bullpen in the majors for the first 11 games of the season. Since then they have had the lowest ERA*.

Edit *= or maybe it was opponents BA. Anyway, the point is that they have really improved.

A very strange team, this years Atlanta Braves. As you know, a terrible bullpen early on. Garrett Anderson was basically called out by the Braves writer for MLB.com, Mark Bowman ....finally went on the DL, then came back and at least has had a few rbi's, which is better than April, where he had 0. His return though seems to have made a difference. Kotchman has had a typical NL to AL start, but in the NL, but is starting to finally hit....

Kawakami has been more or less a bust, til his last start. Javy Vasquez has been inconsistent, to say the least. But, Lowe, Jurrjens, Kawkami and Vasquez, when they all pitch well, makes for a good starting 4. And to beat the Mets last night without Chipper, very impressive!

I think the Mets new stadium is much better than the Yankees, which really shouldn't be the case, should it????

Edited May 12, 2009 by BERIGAN

[Tim McG]

Are they trying to get a new stadium? Has everyone else caught up to Billy Beane?

They are sort of trying, the Fremont stadium feel through (which is good, bad location, no public transpo and it would have been for corporate fans only), I doubt Oakland and the owners will be able to work something out as the owners want the county to fund everything and California is broke. So that leaves San Jose but the economy isn't so great right now for corporate money as it was when they first pursued San Jose.

People float the idea of them moving to Portland Oregon or Las Vegas or maybe North Carolina but I don't see it. Someone needs to tell Bud that even though Pirates have a wonderful new stadium they still draw less than the A's. Best plan would be for the Raiders to leave (they are always blacked out for home games as is) and redo the existing coliseum and give it a face life like the Angels and Royals have done.

That may be long term, WB3...the Raiders are still a big draw for the City of Oakland.

I'd say San Jose has possiblities, but don't the Giants own the MLB rights to that part of the Bay?

[WorldB3]

That may be long term, WB3...the Raiders are still a big draw for the City of Oakland.

I'd say San Jose has possiblities, but don't the Giants own the MLB rights to that part of the Bay?

[PHILLYQ]

"I think the Mets new stadium is much better than the Yankees, which really shouldn't be the case, should it????"

Berigan ,both have their serious problems and both should be magnificent, especially when you consider how much NYC got fleeced to build them and how much they cost. Yankee Staium cost around $1.3 BILLION and has the most expensive tickets in baseball. I'm a Yank fan and it's weird to see so many empty seats every night right behind home plate. The Yanks cut the price in half for the best seats, but $1300+ is still absurd. In the old Yankee stadium the fans were practically on top of the action and this created a distinct home field advantage. 50000+ screaming people almost in your face is pretty intimidating, especially in a playoff game.

The new Shea(I know it's really Citi Field/Taxpayer bailout field, and if the Mets start to play horribly it will become known as Shitty Field!) cost about $800 Million & has thousands of seats that have an obstructed view, so people in those seats can only guess or watch the giant TV to find out what happened in right field. What's worse is that the Mets don't identify those seats, so you could buy a ticket and THEN find out you can't see all that much.

For all that money, couldn't the two stadia be decently designed?

[papsrus]

Scary stuff going on in Baltimore: O's 6, Rays 5, bottom of the second inning.

[Tim McG]

That may be long term, WB3...the Raiders are still a big draw for the City of Oakland.

I'd say San Jose has possiblities, but don't the Giants own the MLB rights to that part of the Bay?

Yes but The Orioles owned the rights to D.C, the Nationals were able to pay the Orioles for the privilege of moving into those rights. Bud and Wolfe are pretty tight and since the owners have made so much money from him I can see SJ getting approved. The thing that sucks is that Wolfe doesn't care about Baseball he cares about real estate development. The majority owners are the Fishers that own the GAP so they have money.

Back in late 80's the A's would draw 3 million, back in 2000-2003 they were middle of the pack. Back when the Giants played at the Stick it was easier to go to A's games because you could just walk to a Bart station and get there where public transpo to the Stick was dicey at best because it would go through the worst neighborhoods (back then) in the City.

I usually took the Express [that doulble long bus] from the Market Street near the BART/Underground Muni exit because it went down the 101 and was fairly quick, but it I get your point.

It would be cool if the A's could do a SJ stadium...it would be a snap for me to get to the game then back on the 101 South to get home. But even now, I just park at the Fremont BART and go to the stadium that way. No big thing, really.

Personally, I think the only fly in the ointment is the Giants have a Single-A affiliate playing there. It could pose a problem.

Edited May 13, 2009 by GoodSpeak

[Dan Gould]

Before I send us back into consideration of the important things in life, like the state of the Red Sox, how about a hand for Jayson Werth's stolen base spree last night, culminating in a steal of home on a lackadaisical throw back from the catcher? Not as exciting as Ellsbury, but certainly ballsy.

Now, to get back to the Sox - seems to me they have an interesting decision coming up. Dice-K will probably have one more rehab start before he'd be reactivated. Masterson hasn't pitched as well as I thought he would as a starter and he was the one who took Dice-K's spot in the first place. Seems to me that the obvious play is to move Masterson back to the bullpen and send Hunter Jones back to Pawtucket. That leaves a bullpen of (in order of how sick they've pitched):

Masterson

Saito

Delcarmen

Okajima,

Ramirez

Papelbon (though he's had issues with baserunners, the results are hard to ignore)

That's a tremendous bullpen, with Saito as the only real weak link, if current results continue. Even though there is only one lefty, the fact is that everyone except Masterson has shut-down numbers against lefties, so what does it matter? IMO, they should declare that Masterson is in the bullpen to stay, barring significant injuries in the rotation. And that is because both Michael Bowden and Clay Bucholz are tearing up AAA right now. When Dice-K went down, Masterson was the choice because he had been stretched out in March, plus Bowden and Bucholz had just OK starts at Pawtucket. But now both of them look locked in - Buchholz has gone over 20 innings without allowing a run, and Bowden has pitched even better than that.

In short, if they have to make another move (like getting rid of Penny even if it comes before Smoltz is ready) there is no reason not to give the opportunity to one of the kids.

And the great thing to me is that while Penny has an ERA around 7, I don't doubt there would be real interest in him if they made him available. There are plenty of would-be contenders who need pitching help. Penny looks healthy and is throwing 95, his results are just mixed. I think he even has three or four "quality" starts, he's just not really helping the team enough so that he should feel secure. I think he could be flipped for a bat pretty easily.

Oh and did I mention that Junichi Tazawa now has an ERA under 3 as a starter at AA? He could be in the bullpen by July, too, which would be a helluva climb from the Japan Industrial league last year.

[Chalupa]

Before I send us back into consideration of the important things in life, like the state of the Red Sox, how about a hand for Jayson Werth's stolen base spree last night, culminating in a steal of home on a lackadaisical throw back from the catcher? Not as exciting as Ellsbury, but certainly ballsy.

That was crazy!! I'm sure Torre tore Russell a new one after the game.

[papsrus]

Percival's a POS. The only reason to refer to him a "closer" can only be that as soon as he comes in, the other team gets closer ... and closer, and closer.

Enough!

[Dan Gould]

At least you held on. I get the incredibly aggravating thrill of going to bed with a 4-0 lead to find out they lost 8-4, with the asshole they knocked around for four runs ending up with a complete game win. Jesus fucking Christ, what the fuck happened?

Obviously number one is that Wakefield's impressive streak is done, finished, over. Back to league average Wake, hope-for-the-best Wake. And that means that Lester or Beckett HAS TO pick up their fucking game and get it going.

[zen archer]

At least you held on. I get the incredibly aggravating thrill of going to bed with a 4-0 lead to find out they lost 8-4, with the asshole they knocked around for four runs ending up with a complete game win. Jesus fucking Christ, what the fuck happened?

Obviously number one is that Wakefield's impressive streak is done, finished, over. Back to league average Wake, hope-for-the-best Wake. And that means that Lester or Beckett HAS TO pick up their fucking game and get it going.

I watched the last 4 innings .....some really pathetic at bats they looked like they wanted to go back to the hotel. Especially Nick Green he looked horrible swinging at crap in the dirt .

Bard looked good ...Damn he looked very comfortable out there.

They need Pedroia and Youk back NOW !