Wallace Roney

[Tom 1960]

I know he gets dissed by some/many for being a Miles wannabe. I'm not sure if that's accurate or not since I've not been exposed to much of his music. I just finished listening to a Bud Powell tribute album which he performs on and while I get the comparison, I still enjoyed his playing. What do you guys think? Does the comparison stick or is it a tad bit unfair? If you feel it's not totally fair, then could you suggest an album worth checking out? Thanks for the input.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Tom 1960

[medjuck]

I saw him live once and was really impressed but at the gig I bought his then latest cd ("Prototype") and didn't care for it at all. However both live and on that cd he didn't sound too much like Miles.

[oneofanotherkind]

I don't listen to Roney much , but that's not really due so much to his playing as it is to the fact that of all the major threads that emerged from the supernova of experimentation of the late 60s / early 70s , Miles' pathway is my least favorite.

That being said , I think the jazz world needs a good Miles' derivative way more than it needs a lot of other things , and I think Roney does a fine job moving along that path. There aren't too many true innovators these days ( in part because jazz is at an advanced age and it isn't too easy these days to sound fresh and new ) , so perhaps we should acknowledge those who found a personal voice within one of the acknowledged major pathways.

Edited April 26, 2009 by oneofanotherkind

[kh1958]

I saw him leading a group at the Iridium a couple of years ago and thought that, for the most part, he is a Miles imitator, but that he did at least have a tinge of originality. The best parts of the evening, though, were Geri Allen on piano, and James Spaulding. I probably would go to see him again, with the opportunity.

[jlhoots]

I think "imitator" is unfair - but influenced for sure.

[jazzbo]

Influenced? Schooled, in a real sense.

I like some of his music. . . but I'm not LOVIN' it. And it isn't because of the "Miles" thing really I don't think. I just don't get bowled over.

[CJ Shearn]

I really like Wallace's playing on "Miles From India", but I think my favorite Wallace Roney has always the Tony Williams recordings, "Foreign Intrigue", Wallace doesn't really sound like Miles at all there. His phrasing in general is very much influenced by mid 60's Miles with all those chromatic runs, but the contour of them is very different.

Edited May 19, 2019 by CJ Shearn

[robviti]

i've seen roney perform several times and own a handful of his recordings. i don't think the miles comparisons are overstated. imo, he sounds like miles and plays music that's remarkably similar to what miles played (most recently, the early-electric/waterbabies phase). hell, he even dresses like miles - oversized sunglasses, designer leather jackets, etc. there's nothing wrong with these decisions, mind you, but after a while you get the impression that you've heard it all before.

[BillF]

The only Wallace Roney in my collection is on the Re-Birth of the Cool session, where I think he does fine. Gerry Mulligan is quoted in the notes as saying: "He really understands something about Miles' melodic sense. He did some astounding melodic things on this album."

[ejp626]

Not that familiar with Roney, but I do have Munchin' and Crunchin'. These are two CDs in the hard-bop vein that came out in the early '90s. For better and worse, they sound exactly like they could have been cut 30+ years before.

[WorldB3]

i've seen roney perform several times and own a handful of his recordings. i don't think the miles comparisons are overstated. imo, he sounds like miles and plays music that's remarkably similar to what miles played (most recently, the early-electric/waterbabies phase). hell, he even dresses like miles - oversized sunglasses, designer leather jackets, etc. there's nothing wrong with these decisions, mind you, but after a while you get the impression that you've heard it all before.

the only two times I have seen him were both Miles Tributes. One right after Miles passed with the remaining members of the Miles Quintet and he sounded great. The last time was last year with the Miles From India product and while he sounded good the leather jacket and sunglasses holding the trumpet just so bit came off a bit Vegas Elvis/Miles impersonator so I think he brings that on himself. I kind of think the whole Miles From India project was just to make money so, bottom line he got paid and he entertained.

If your looking for a young trumpet player doing a fresh take on the Miles 60's quintet vibe check out Jeremy Pelt and his excellent record from last year titled November.

Edited April 27, 2009 by WorldB3

[sheldonm]

...saw him once 6-7 years ago...good show, not great.

m

[Coda]

I don't go out on New Years Eve, mostly because I'm old and can't stay awake that late.   As a consolation I go to a show between Christmas and New Years.   At Scullers (Boston) he's playing one night that week.

I haven't stayed current with his work, it must be 10 years since I last listened to him - and based on this thread that seems to be the norm around here.   Has anyone listened to him recently?  Would you recommend hearing him?   I can't locate info on who he is touring with so that adds to my hesitation.

[Rooster_Ties]

I've seen Wallace a number of times, but not in the last 10 years.  He may have even been among one of the first 5-10 jazz shows I ever saw (back around 1989/90, first in St. Louis a couple times -- then maybe twice in Kansas City around 1994-96).  Back then, he was always great - though I seem to remember liking his brother Antoine Roney (on tenor) even better a few of those times.

The very BEST night I ever heard him, though, was in 1996, in a small club in Kansas City - and his brother was sick, so it was just a quartet.  And to my ears back then, it all sounded like a night of "Bitches Brew"-type material, but all acoustic.  Left a VERY strong impression on me at the time (though part of that was that I was all hopped up on love chemicals (oxytocin and likely endorphins too), having just met my future wife, and we'd only been dating about 4 weeks at that point).  It's a really long story, but she was with me at that Roney show (without Antoine), and it was one of the best shows I've ever seen, bar none.

That said, I've also seen Roney 2-3 times between 2000-2010, and he's always been good, but never really "great".  WHAT he plays is always spot-on, but it seems like he's never listening and responding in the moment to what's going on in/from/with the rest of the band.  In fact, one time I saw him, I don't think ANYONE in the band was listening to each other.  It all fit together metronomically, but there was absolutely no give-and-take to any of it.  Except, oddly enough, the piano player (Gary Versace, iirc?), who played and was comping incredibly well and interestingly.  He was clearly listening to EVERYTHING, the entire night.  I talked to him after the show and paid my compliments, and it turns out Gary (if it was him), was just subbing that night for the first time with Wallace, and he was reading everything (though he'd had the charts for a week or So).  Said he was just trying to keep his head above water, all night.

Roney and everyone else in the band all played like monsters, but they were all like independent monsters, all in their own worlds.  So I listened to Versace the entire night, cuz THAT'S where the magic was on that bandstand in that band in that moment.

Anyway, Roney's always good, and occasionally great -- but I wouldn't necessarily expect any great revelatory interplay in/between/among the group.  I think the 2nd time I saw him 10-ish years ago (this time without Versace), it was the same thing.  Killer playing, but everyone just plowed through everything, and there wasn't any space to breath.

Which is all funny, because he's nearly always a little more interesting on record than I'm expecting.  Maybe what he does is better suited playing in a studio?  I really don't know.

No idea who he's playing with these days.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Rooster_Ties

[jlhoots]

I'd chance it & go to see him.

[Rooster_Ties]

Oh, and he and his band were loud as fuck the last couple times I saw them. Definitely take earplugs. Holy shit, were they loud. Almost painfully so.

[Coda]

I think I found his band members.  This is from a show in March:

Wallace Roney Tromba
Emilio Modeste Sax
Oscar Williams Piano
Curtis Lundy Bass
Eric Allen Drums

 

Tromba?  Italian for trumpet

[Kevin Bresnahan]

2 hours ago, Coda said:

I don't go out on New Years Eve, mostly because I'm old and can't stay awake that late.   As a consolation I go to a show between Christmas and New Years.   At Scullers (Boston) he's playing one night that week.

I haven't stayed current with his work, it must be 10 years since I last listened to him - and based on this thread that seems to be the norm around here.   Has anyone listened to him recently?  Would you recommend hearing him?   I can't locate info on who he is touring with so that adds to my hesitation.

Scullers rarely lists the band members. I've been asking them for this for quite a while. I've skipped a few shows only to find out that the backing band had some of my favorite players in it, so I should have gone. It can be frustrating.

I saw Blanchard a few years back and he played a nice set. Nothing stands out in my memory of it being a "can't miss" show but I doubt you'd be disappointed.

I see you found his current band. That sax player is only 18, so it's unlikely that you've seen him before.

[Coda]

I found a clip of Emilio on youtube.   He sounds really good...with a bit of Coltrane swag in his sound.    I might just go to this show (thanks all).   I was going to get the dinner package to be up close but because of Rooster's warning I'll be at the back of the club in one of the bar seats.   Service has been terrible at the club since they moved from the awesome upstairs room to this new sterile conference room. 

[Rooster_Ties]

1 hour ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

That sax player is only 18, so it's unlikely that you've seen him before.

And this clip of Wallace seems to also include the same (young) tenor-player...

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by Rooster_Ties

[bertrand]

His current band is good, but he is not really doing anything new these days. The best band he ever had was the one with his brother and thr rhythm section of Aruan Ortiz, Rahsaan Carter and Kush Abadey. It sounded like the Miles front line meets Weather Report. The gigs at Bohemian Caverns were incredible.

I worked with him initially on that project with the unknown big band charts that Miles wrote for Wayne that I found at the Library of Congress. I did get to see the band at the Jazz Standard 5 years ago and it was amazing. The DC concert was cancelled alas, I am still pissed off at the venue.

There was a lot of drama associated with that project and apparently he wants nothing to do with me anymore. Whatever. I am sorry I did not approach Jeremy Pelt about this, but I thought Roney knew Wayne better.

 

[sidewinder]

I’ve seen Wallace Roney a few times - the most recent occasion (still over 10 years ago) was with Herbie Hancock. My favourite concert from him though was with Mulgrew Miller touring ‘Hand In Hand’. Also saw him with Tony Williams’ Quintet on one memorable (and free) occasion.

Edited November 29, 2018 by sidewinder

[Kevin Bresnahan]

10 hours ago, Coda said:

I don't go out on New Years Eve, mostly because I'm old and can't stay awake that late.   As a consolation I go to a show between Christmas and New Years.   At Scullers (Boston) he's playing one night that week.

I haven't stayed current with his work, it must be 10 years since I last listened to him - and based on this thread that seems to be the norm around here.   Has anyone listened to him recently?  Would you recommend hearing him?   I can't locate info on who he is touring with so that adds to my hesitation.

Can I ask why you wouldn't rather go to the Black Art Jazz Collective the night before Roney's show? The Black Art Jazz Collective is a killer band:

Jeremy Pelt - Trumpet

Wayne Escoffrey - Tenor

James Burton - Trombone

Danny Grissett - Piano

Vincente Archer - Bass

Johnathan Blake - Drums

I'm actually thinking about that one but I wait to see what the weather brings.

[bertrand]

Black Art is excellent!!!

[Coda]

Hi Kevin,

I had never heard of this band.  Now that I see who's in it I agree it's the better of the two shows.

Wayne Escoffrey rented an apartment from my wife back around the year 2000.  He lived on Commonwealth Ave across the street from Star Market near BU's west campus.   He was really nice to her and I'm sure she remembers him.  He was pursuing a modeling career (+ jazz) at that time.  The women in her office swooned over him. 

I'm going to put in a request to have Scullers list the band members.   I should have known of this group and am grateful that you've brought this to my attention.