Use3D Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 What these guys said. Anyway welcome to the board, hope you stick around. I'll be back here in the morning and I wanna see smiles and kittens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Yes sir... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) Awww... Edited August 4, 2009 by 7/4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Barton Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Sigh... Kittens and smiles would be a good thing. And I'm sure that there's way more happening in NYC than you or anyone else could possibly digest. Same here. Same in a lot of places. Don't let the Jazz Nazis intimidate you (doesn't look like that's happening anyway). Welcome, and write on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazzchick3 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Dan, This is the kind of thing that I think really gives the O board, and by extension the BAND Organissimo, a bad name. Didn't Jim ask all of us a while back to cool out, especially in regards to how we treat newcomers, because these things reflect badly on the BAND? Think about it for a minute... we have a newcomer here who has the potential to HELP the band through her position, yet her first interaction with board members is to be dumped on and cursed at. How does that help the band in any way??? Hell, I'm embarrassed by your responses, and my name isn't associated with the board in any way... think of how Jim, Joe and Randy must feel to see stuff like this. Just sayin'... Oh, and welcome TJC3! Cheers, Shane Thanks so much Shane! I appreciate your support, and I hope I can count on you for ideas and help in the future! Carole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazzchick3 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 What indestructible! said... I just don't see any reason for the reaction she got. It was way out of control, and very (IMO) unfair (as well as rude and disrespectful). it also makes me - as one of the few women posting on this board - feel pretty discouraged about the way women are received here. It's as if there's a big "Boys Only" sign, in some people's minds, at least. I'm all for a more laid-back, friendly vibe, and I think it's doable. But you gotta work at it. And (kind of a separate issue) there certainly are some talented musicians working in the "smooth jazz" arena. I think it's important to acknowledge and respect them - and their musicianship - even when we (you, me, anyone) doesn't especially care for the type of music they're playing. To my eyes, that's what thejackchick3's column was addressing, in part. Trying to find one's path as a writer for a general-interest publication isn't easy. Indestructible...you read me. There was a broader point that I was trying to make, and I have heard a thousand times from female friends/jazz musicians that they feel "shut out" sometimes in what they feel is a "boys only" atmosphere. I hope to get into that in later articles. I was expecting debate on the board, I wasn't expecting hostility. If I couldn't take criticism, I would not have been a working actress and vocalist for as long as I have. In the acting world especially, rejection is your middle name! Anyway, thanks for seeing the broader picture. I hope I can count on you and everyone else for input and advice. I have a host of interviews already planned...(you should see my inbox from managers and promoters), but there are nuggets of gold that I know I might miss. Thanks. Carole (TJC3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazzchick3 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 What indestructible! said... I just don't see any reason for the reaction she got. It was way out of control, and very (IMO) unfair (as well as rude and disrespectful). it also makes me - as one of the few women posting on this board - feel pretty discouraged about the way women are received here. It's as if there's a big "Boys Only" sign, in some people's minds, at least. I'm all for a more laid-back, friendly vibe, and I think it's doable. But you gotta work at it. And (kind of a separate issue) there certainly are some talented musicians working in the "smooth jazz" arena. I think it's important to acknowledge and respect them - and their musicianship - even when we (you, me, anyone) doesn't especially care for the type of music they're playing. To my eyes, that's what thejackchick3's column was addressing, in part. Trying to find one's path as a writer for a general-interest publication isn't easy. Your support and comments are absolutely welcome. I sincerely hope that women on the board don't get the reaction I got. You so read me. You and Indestructible got my broader point, and I hope that I can sincerely ask for your opinion on a variety of subjects. I did feel a little like I had stepped in to what you called a "Boys only" atmosphere, but then it dawned on me that so many female friends/musicians experience that on a much greater scale than I have, because my time has been spent predominantly over the past 10 years being dividing between incredibly tough directors and casting directors in the world of commercials, television and film. I had to pay the bills. Believe me, the interviews that I have set up and ones yet to be attained are in pursuit of bringing more visibility to so many great artists. I know I have only scratched the surface, and I hope I can count on you and other board members to help me. My introduction to the board? I think that's what they call "baptism by fire." So many have been so gracious that I still believe I made the right choice in joining. I'm looking forward to any ideas you might have....Thanks so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazzchick3 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 What these guys said. Anyway welcome to the board, hope you stick around. I'll be back here in the morning and I wanna see smiles and kittens. Well, I can offer smiles (now anyway) . No kittens, though....my cat Sebastian is acting like Dan this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) welcome! i only have a vague imagination of what being the jazz person at a newspaper is like, but i wish you all the best with it and i don't see what's wrong with trying to cover a broad variety of music/the music people like to read about... i doubt that many here feel that your statement below represents their feelings about smooth jazz... doubt that anybody here sees, say miles davis' bitches brew on the wrong side of the fence... (and electric guitars have been treasured in the jazz world for much longer)... [ensuring that some of the flames hit me] for me pat metheny is right at the border, i do hear the differences to kenny g and obviously he does improvise but the... quirkiness i like about my jazz is missing... Many in the jazz community have a visceral dislike for “smooth jazz.” They believe that the early 1970’s mixing of the genres of rhythm and blues and jazz with the introduction of electronic and commercial sounds such as the electric guitar and the soprano sax led to the watering down of “real” jazz. Edited August 4, 2009 by Niko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Many in the jazz community have a visceral dislike for “smooth jazz.” They believe that the early 1970’s mixing of the genres of rhythm and blues and jazz with the introduction of electronic and commercial sounds such as the electric guitar and the soprano sax led to the watering down of “real” jazz. Yeah, I haven't read this thread, so I don't know whose quote that is, but it is so terrbily wrong in so many ways that I hope if it's somebody here in this thread that they don't take it personal when I say that infact it's pretty much bullshit. I'll gladly and freindly go into detail later today when I'm not at work, but it's nothing personal to call bullshit where it exists, and that quote right there is bullshit. For one thing, "electronic and commercial sounds such as the electric guitar and the soprano sax" is a big "WTF are you talking about?" point... but htere are others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 welcome to the board carole!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Nevertheless, if we want to debate ideas, fine, just know that for me "bullshit" is an emoptionally-neutral word, so please don't get fried over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I might need help, you sir need manors. Are you a realtor by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazzchick3 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 welcome! i only have a vague imagination of what being the jazz person at a newspaper i like, but i wish you all the best with it and i don't see what's wrong with trying to cover a broad variety of music/the music people like to read about... i doubt that many here feel that your statement below represents their feelings about smooth jazz... doubt that anybody here sees, say miles davis' bitches brew on the wrong side of the fence... (and electric guitars have been treasured in the jazz world for much longer)... [ensuring that some of the flames hit me] for me pat metheny is right at the border, i do hear the differences to kenny g and obviously he does improvise but the... quirkiness i like about my jazz is missing... Many in the jazz community have a visceral dislike for “smooth jazz.” They believe that the early 1970’s mixing of the genres of rhythm and blues and jazz with the introduction of electronic and commercial sounds such as the electric guitar and the soprano sax led to the watering down of “real” jazz. Really appreciate the feedback...Thanks! TJC3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazzchick3 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 welcome to the board carole!!! Thanks! I might need help, you sir need manors. Are you a realtor by any chance? Of course I am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazzchick3 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Many in the jazz community have a visceral dislike for “smooth jazz.” They believe that the early 1970’s mixing of the genres of rhythm and blues and jazz with the introduction of electronic and commercial sounds such as the electric guitar and the soprano sax led to the watering down of “real” jazz. Yeah, I haven't read this thread, so I don't know whose quote that is, but it is so terrbily wrong in so many ways that I hope if it's somebody here in this thread that they don't take it personal when I say that infact it's pretty much bullshit. I'll gladly and freindly go into detail later today when I'm not at work, but it's nothing personal to call bullshit where it exists, and that quote right there is bullshit. For one thing, "electronic and commercial sounds such as the electric guitar and the soprano sax" is a big "WTF are you talking about?" point... but htere are others. Not taken personally...just a composite of what a number of people I have been interviewing have said. But, that's why I reached out on the board....to get a broader perspective and not the myopic view...bullshit, perhaps....but that's what the discussion is about. That's really WTF I am trying to open up. Please go into detail later. I would love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umum_cypher Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 i doubt that many here feel that your statement below represents their feelings about smooth jazz... doubt that anybody here sees, say miles davis' bitches brew on the wrong side of the fence... Au contraire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 i doubt that many here feel that your statement below represents their feelings about smooth jazz... doubt that anybody here sees, say miles davis' bitches brew on the wrong side of the fence... Au contraire i was talking about "many here"... had actually considered mentioning that some people (marsalis people) indeed draw the line there (which doesn't make charlie christian's guitar electronic but still...); but i guess nowadays it's safe to say that these people are in a minority (? never been to new york...) not only here ; and i guess it's only the most stubborn jazz fans who see bitches brew or the work of pat metheny in the same boat with dave koz's christmas album (which i just sampled to see what i was talking about) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 O.K. - now that we're all "making nice", I don't care for the "music" of Boney James & Dave Koz. If you want to help women in jazz, write about Ingrid Jensen, Matana Roberts, Anat Cohen, etc., etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazzchick3 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 O.K. - now that we're all "making nice", I don't care for the "music" of Boney James & Dave Koz. If you want to help women in jazz, write about Ingrid Jensen, Matana Roberts, Anat Cohen, etc., etc.. On my list as well as Esperanza Spalding, Deborah Weisz. Keep this list coming...especially the diamonds in the rough that may right now being overlooked. It's really about all of them and all of you, and what you will bring to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 O.K. - now that we're all "making nice", I don't care for the "music" of Boney James & Dave Koz. If you want to help women in jazz, write about Ingrid Jensen, Matana Roberts, Anat Cohen, etc., etc.. I'd love to know what she's up to. Kind of slipped off my radar the past year or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) in my opinion there is indeed a problem when one considers writing about jazz as a platform for helping musicians promote their cds and concerts - this makes a newspaper's arts section into more of a promo sheet than anything else. I happen to think that not only the music but musicians' reasons for producing it are often more complex and more interesting than this - at least for some of them. To view it in this narrow a fashion is to close off too many important people. It's like ignoring James Joyce because he's not on the best seller list; by this measure, we would never hear of Kafka, Bruno Schulz, etc because they fall under the radar. I think the critic's job is to look under the radar - a difficult thing, to be sure, but much more rewarding. Edited August 4, 2009 by AllenLowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazzchick3 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 O.K. - now that we're all "making nice", I don't care for the "music" of Boney James & Dave Koz. If you want to help women in jazz, write about Ingrid Jensen, Matana Roberts, Anat Cohen, etc., etc.. I'd love to know what she's up to. Kind of slipped off my radar the past year or so. A little something from July 29, 2009...Matana Roberts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazzchick3 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 in my opinion there is indeed a problem when one considers writing about jazz as a platform for helping musicians promote their cds and concerts - this makes a newspaper's arts section into more of a promo sheet than anything else. I happen to think that not only the music but musicians' reasons for producing it are often more complex and more interesting than this - at least for some of them. To view it in this narrow a fashion is to close off too many important people. It's like ignoring James Joyce because he's not on the best seller list; by this measure, we would never hear of Kafka, Bruno Schulz, etc because they fall under the radar. I think the critic's job is to look under the radar - a difficult thing, to be sure, but much more rewarding. Hi Allen: I am not coming to this from the perspective of a critic. That's my deal...its more about information, opinion, debate, interviews, etc. That's what I was trying to explain in the beginning. I am trying to get to a lot of those artists "under the radar." That's why I wanted to do the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazzchick3 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 O.K. - now that we're all "making nice", I don't care for the "music" of Boney James & Dave Koz. If you want to help women in jazz, write about Ingrid Jensen, Matana Roberts, Anat Cohen, etc., etc.. I'd love to know what she's up to. Kind of slipped off my radar the past year or so. A little something from July 29, 2009...Matana Roberts Actually, this link is quicker:Matana Roberts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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