Grant Green on TV 1966, WGBH-TV Boston

[andybleaden]

Hey maybe they had them both just to really whet the appetite!

Would be lovely to see any /all of this.

[Stereojack]

This still is most likely from a WGBH program entitled "Jazz" which ran weekly for a year or two in the mid 1960's. Each week the program, which was hosted by Herb Pomeroy, featured a jazz artist, usually someone who was appearing at one of the local clubs that week. I saw many of the programs, and managed to make audio tapes of several of them, although I do not have the Grant Green program. I believe Grant may have been appearing at Estelle's that week.

Steve Schwartz (WGBH jazz show host) and I (former WGBH host) have have had conversations about the program, and after many inquiries, concluded that no video of the show survives, and that only a handful of audio survives. It's possible that the show was aired live.

Among the people who appeared are Roland Kirk, Freddie Hubbard, Elvin Jones, Charles Lloyd, Kenny Burrell, Art Farmer, Illinois Jacquet, Carol Sloane. I can also remember seeing (but not taping) Sonny Rollins and Thelonious Monk.

[monkboughtlunch]

Feedback from Michael Cuscuna (without a doubt the greatest reissue expert and champion of Blue Note artists).

He's going to reach out to Jazz Icons DVD folks as well. I'm sure his email will get a lot more attention with the Jazz Icons folks than mine.

That's quite a find. Blue Note isn't doing DVDs anymore but I can forward it to Jazz Icons if you like.

I've never seen or heard of this!

Michael

[monkboughtlunch]

This still is most likely from a WGBH program entitled "Jazz" which ran weekly for a year or two in the mid 1960's. Each week the program, which was hosted by Herb Pomeroy, featured a jazz artist, usually someone who was appearing at one of the local clubs that week. I saw many of the programs, and managed to make audio tapes of several of them, although I do not have the Grant Green program. I believe Grant may have been appearing at Estelle's that week.

Steve Schwartz (WGBH jazz show host) and I (former WGBH host) have have had conversations about the program, and after many inquiries, concluded that no video of the show survives, and that only a handful of audio survives. It's possible that the show was aired live.

Among the people who appeared are Roland Kirk, Freddie Hubbard, Elvin Jones, Charles Lloyd, Kenny Burrell, Art Farmer, Illinois Jacquet, Carol Sloane. I can also remember seeing (but not taping) Sonny Rollins and Thelonious Monk.

Did you inquire about the "Mixed Bag" show or just "Jazz?"

The response I got from the Jazz Icons DVD folks at Reelin in The Years productions was "we recently started working with WGBH." So clearly WGBH does have some jazz archival material of value. Tanner said "survived, contact WGBH-tv for info."

Edited August 11, 2009 by monkboughtlunch

[monkboughtlunch]

A bio on Lee Tanner.

Source: http://www.jerryjazzmusician.com/mainHTML....age=tanner.html

____________________________

Lee Tanner began using a camera as a teenager in New York City. An avid jazz fan from the age of eight and inspired by the jazz photography of Gjon Mili, Bill Claxton, Herb Snitzer, and Herman Leonard, he turned to documenting the jazz scene with a love for the music comparable only to his creative drive for visual expression. Photography, however, was only an avocation.

After graduation from college and a short tour in the U. S. Army, Tanner undertook scientific graduate studies leading to a career in metallurgical research. His career in science proceeded in parallel with the photography of jazz musicians for more than 40 years. Tanner's scientific work involved frequent travel and he took every opportunity to capture the jazz scene on film in all the cities he visited in the United States and Europe. While living in Boston in the sixties, Tanner turned to video presentation, producing a live, impromptu music series entitled "Mixed Bag "on the PBS channel WGBH.

[Dan Gould]

That's the thing about this - these are two different shows, apparently. I still wonder though about Tanner's knowledge of the station's archives. When did he know that the tape "survived" and how do we know that it still does, and is relatively easy to locate?

[Jim R]

This still is most likely from a WGBH program entitled "Jazz" which ran weekly for a year or two in the mid 1960's.

I googled "Mixed Bag" WGBH, and found a link to this resume webpage of producer/director named David Atwood, who apparently was involved in working on the show. He lists "Mixed Bag" and "Jazz" separately, fwiw. There's an e-mail address there if anybody wants to contact him.

Among the people who appeared are Roland Kirk, Freddie Hubbard, Elvin Jones, Charles Lloyd, Kenny Burrell, Art Farmer, Illinois Jacquet, Carol Sloane. I can also remember seeing (but not taping) Sonny Rollins and Thelonious Monk.

When looking at this list, and including those I mentioned above as being documented in the Tanner book as having performed at WGBH (Wes Montgomery, George Benson, Larry Coryell), it still strikes me that a Grant Green video is a relatively rare thing. Of course, most of those artists lived longer than Green, but even Wes had a few sessions captured on tape before his early passing (Grant's popularity didn't really take off until after his death, unfortunately).

Edited August 11, 2009 by Jim R

[Stereojack]

That's the thing about this - these are two different shows, apparently. I still wonder though about Tanner's knowledge of the station's archives. When did he know that the tape "survived" and how do we know that it still does, and is relatively easy to locate?

"Mixed Bag" dates from several years later than "Jazz". My understanding is that there was a fire in the early 70's that may have claimed quite a bit of archived material. "Mixed Bag" dates from after the fire, I believe. While the show may have aired some jazz, it focused primarily on pop, folk, and rock.

I, too, question whether Tanner has any knowledge of what exists in the archives. Why would he? Steve Schwartz, however, does work at the station now, so he would be in a position to find out just what exists. And as I said, he made these inquiries years ago.

[monkboughtlunch]

This still is most likely from a WGBH program entitled "Jazz" which ran weekly for a year or two in the mid 1960's.

I googled "Mixed Bag" WGBH, and found a link to this resume webpage of producer/director named David Atwood, who apparently was involved in working on the show. He lists "Mixed Bag" and "Jazz" separately, fwiw. There's an e-mail address there if anybody wants to contact him.

Among the people who appeared are Roland Kirk, Freddie Hubbard, Elvin Jones, Charles Lloyd, Kenny Burrell, Art Farmer, Illinois Jacquet, Carol Sloane. I can also remember seeing (but not taping) Sonny Rollins and Thelonious Monk.

When looking at this list, and including those I mentioned above as being documented in the Tanner book as having performed at WGBH (Wes Montgomery, George Benson, Larry Coryell), it still strikes me that a Grant Green video is a relatively rare thing. Of course, most of those artists lived longer than Green, but even Wes had a few sessions captured on tape before his early passing (Grant's popularity didn't really take off until after his death, unfortunately).

Thanks! I just sent an email to Mr. Atwood. I will keep everyone posted.

[monkboughtlunch]

Jim,

Great sleuthing. Received another email from Tanner today telling me to contact David Atwood!!

Here's a picture of Atwood at WGBH in 1966 operating a camera dolly from his resume web page. Clearly Atwood would be in a position to provide additional information since he was an employee during the period in question and according to his resume has worked for WGBH as recently as 2005.

From David Atwood's web page:

http://www.pinetreeproductions.com/album.html

1966: Attempting to operate the Fearless Panoram Dolly at WGBH. The production is "The World of Kurt Weill" with Lotte Lenya. Steve Potter on the right is my camera assistant. That's a black and white camera and if we could see the front of it we would probably see fixed focal length lenses. For those who remember it's an RCA TK-60 image orthicon.

Edited August 11, 2009 by monkboughtlunch

[monkboughtlunch]

Just got this E-mail from David Atwood. A quick response from a very nice fellow:

What a fabulous photo. Lee's eye is exceptional. It reminds me the quality of the lighting we did in those days with our cameras still black and white, one year away from color.

In 1966 the show was called "Jazz" and was not recorded through an agreement with the AF of M. They permitted the show to be done for promotional purposes, there was no payment to the musicians, and one of the conditions was that it was to be live, not recorded. It's possible a recording exists but I'm fairly sure there is not one at WGBH. We had 2" tape but no kinescope.

In 1966 I was a cameraman, I didn't start directing until 1967. WGBH might have records but I seriously doubt it. I don't believe we even kept a record of the side musicians in those days. It's possible though that we had them sign a release.

To garner a wider audience "Jazz" became "Mixed Bag", I think in 1968. There are some recordings from that series. In fact just last week I transfered a show done in 1970 featuring The Buddy Guy Blues Band with a guest appearance by Big Mama Thornton. That show should go into a historical collection and WGBH does have a preservation master of it I believe. I've cc'ed Keith Luf at WGBH, he can verify that the archives has a tape.

Regards,

David Atwood

WGBH alumni

[Dan Gould]

What was Tanner smoking to say that tape "survived" if they were contractually obligated to broadcast it live and not record anything?

(Buddy Guy and Big Mama Thornton sounds like a cool thing to see released though)

[Jim R]

Just got this E-mail from David Atwood. A quick response from a very nice fellow:

What a fabulous photo. Lee's eye is exceptional. It reminds me the quality of the lighting we did in those days with our cameras still black and white, one year away from color.

In 1966 the show was called "Jazz" and was not recorded through an agreement with the AF of M. They permitted the show to be done for promotional purposes, there was no payment to the musicians, and one of the conditions was that it was to be live, not recorded. It's possible a recording exists but I'm fairly sure there is not one at WGBH. We had 2" tape but no kinescope.

In 1966 I was a cameraman, I didn't start directing until 1967. WGBH might have records but I seriously doubt it. I don't believe we even kept a record of the side musicians in those days. It's possible though that we had them sign a release.

To garner a wider audience "Jazz" became "Mixed Bag", I think in 1968. There are some recordings from that series. In fact just last week I transfered a show done in 1970 featuring The Buddy Guy Blues Band with a guest appearance by Big Mama Thornton. That show should go into a historical collection and WGBH does have a preservation master of it I believe. I've cc'ed Keith Luf at WGBH, he can verify that the archives has a tape.

Regards,

David Atwood

WGBH alumni

Thanks for that, mbl. It's a little disappointing, but not terribly surprising. I actually would have been very surprised if tape still existed, had it been recorded.

Too bad VCR's weren't quite around in large numbers at the time. This general topic always reminds me of similar programming we had out here on KQED (SF) in the early 70's, which I would have recorded without a second thought if I'd had a VCR. I still remember a show (although I've forgotten the name) similar in concept to "Mixed Bag", where I saw studio performances by Freddy King, Chick Corea, Santana, and others. At some point, I even tried pulling out a portable audio cassette recorder and an external mic. That usually went pretty well... until somebody opened the garage door, or turned on a vacuum cleaner, or if the dog got excited about something.

[monkboughtlunch]

What was Tanner smoking to say that tape "survived" if they were contractually obligated to broadcast it live and not record anything?

(Buddy Guy and Big Mama Thornton sounds like a cool thing to see released though)

Maybe he thought the Grant Green episode was from "Mixed Bag" and not "Jazz?" Atwood notes some of the "Mixed Bag" shows have survived.

I would also note that although it appears the Grant Green show was not recorded in the first place, Atwood does not rule out the possibility. However, the chances do seem remote for this existing on 2 inch tape.

Looks like the AFM stipulated the show had to be broadcast live. I suppose the station could recorded the live performance, but it remains unclear if they could have rebroadcast it per the AFM rules. Otherwise, what would have been their motivation to preserve it on expensive quad tape?

The only other remote possibility for this existing on videotape is if Tanner got the air date wrong and this was performed circa 1968 for Mixed Bag, and therefore might exist on tape as some of those shows have apparently survived.

Edited August 12, 2009 by monkboughtlunch

[Dan Gould]

Seems to me you should send a message to Tanner listing the reasons you now have for why it wouldn't have survived (or even existed in the first place) and ask him why he says it "survived".

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

did a lot of u guys used to record jazz on tv back in the day, cause it does seem like a lot like that has survived...

[monkboughtlunch]

Seems to me you should send a message to Tanner listing the reasons you now have for why it wouldn't have survived (or even existed in the first place) and ask him why he says it "survived".

Atwood copied him on the email saying he didn't think it was recorded in the first place. I'll let you know if Tanner weighs in.

[monkboughtlunch]

Seems to me you should send a message to Tanner listing the reasons you now have for why it wouldn't have survived (or even existed in the first place) and ask him why he says it "survived".

Atwood did say:

I've cc'ed Keith Luf at WGBH, he can verify that the archives has a tape.

So hopefully Mr. Luf can provide some closure on if this exists or not.

[monkboughtlunch]

Some additional info from Tanner today:

Too long ago B&W i think 30min

2-inch long gone......

[andybleaden]

Never mind all these protest about socialised health care and all that. I am starting a micro blog/twitter thing to get hundreds of thousands of US citizens to protest outside this mans house til it appears on dvd starting right NOW!

Shame really though ...we have lost a great deal of beautiful music over the years from the TV..best hang on better to what we got.

[monkboughtlunch]

Feedback from Keith Luf, WGBH Archives Manager:

Thank you for your inquiry regarding Jazz and Mixed Bag. Unfortunately the WGBH Archives does not hold any recording of Grant Green performing on Jazz. Some episodes of Jazz and Mixed Bag do exist, just not the Green program.

Best regards,

Keith Luf

------------------

Keith Luf

Archives Manager

WGBH Media Library and Archives

One Guest Street

Boston, MA 02135

617-300-2658

[Niko]

[Hardbopjazz]

Feedback from Keith Luf, WGBH Archives Manager:

Thank you for your inquiry regarding Jazz and Mixed Bag. Unfortunately the WGBH Archives does not hold any recording of Grant Green performing on Jazz. Some episodes of Jazz and Mixed Bag do exist, just not the Green program.

Best regards,

Keith Luf

------------------

Keith Luf

Archives Manager

WGBH Media Library and Archives

One Guest Street

Boston, MA 02135

617-300-2658

It's like that date you've waited for all week and she doesn't show up. It was good to believe for a while that this existed.

[AndrewHill]

A pity about the Green. On the other hand, I'd like to know what does exist in their archives.

[monkboughtlunch]

A pity about the Green. On the other hand, I'd like to know what does exist in their archives.

Agreed. I sent a response to Mr. Luf asking if he could share a spreadsheet of all programs extant on 2 inch quad. The intriguing thing is that Mr. Luf said some "Jazz" programs DO exist. We previously knew that some of the "Mixed Bag" shows from 1968 or later exist. However, the news from Mr. Luf that some of the earlier "Jazz" shows, circa 1966-68, have survived appears to be new information. It would be cool if there are some other jazz greats who were preserved on tape.

Edited August 14, 2009 by monkboughtlunch