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the trouble with bassists (not)


AllenLowe

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so here's what's been happening -

I've decided to form a band and actually start playing again - also, doing some video taping for a documentary -

mid summer: I have a friend, a great drummer, coming this direction from Canada for vacation - we decided to do a recording session. I book the studio. I call a bassist I heard recently - I book a rehearsal with him, and give him the date of the recording, He agrees to do it.

we do one rehearsal. As the recording date comes closed I call, I email - no response - I call, I email. No response. So I cancel the whole thing, though by this time my friend the drummer is already on his way, drums in the trunk of his car. He handles it fine, we hang, but no session,

the next month - I start to rehearse my new band - have a guitarist set to come - I email and call the bassist (a different one). He agrees on the time and place. The day comes, we sit and wait - one hour after the scheduled time, we give up, the guitarist goes home. Just after he leaves, the bass player calls. I don't feel like talking to the guy so I let it go - a few days later I hear from a friend of his that he feels bad because he screwed up and wasn't even in town on the day of the rehearsal.

two weeks later: I've been sitting in with this very good local, but young, band. We schedule a rehearsal for a Sunday, me and the bass and the drummer from this group. The day comes (as does the guitarist again) - no show for both of them. I email - the drummer, a complete asshole, sends me a cheerful email "sorry, yeah, I shoulda called, I had another session, gee, sorry, that was dumb of me. Talk to you later" The drummer is more genuinely apologetic, but he "spaced out. I was visiting a friend." My email to the drummer was basically, "no, we will not talk later 'cause you're an irresponsible jerk." I was nicer to the bass player, but since he's a friend of the drummer, he's offended by my email to the drummer and we're pretty much through (which is fine with me) -

so that's it for now, though I have a line on another drummer and bassist, am putting a book together, and I do have a great guitarist in the band, But I'm mystified by all the crap that's happening, though I chalk it up to the fact that all of these guys are barely 21-22 and extremely baby-ish, and that they see me simply as an unimportant old guy.

Edited by AllenLowe
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I haven't even mentioned ANOTHER bass player that I worked with briefly but whom I've given up on, as if I booked a date with him, I had to just basically call him every day to make sure he made it -

he was 19 - starting to think this is a generational thing - God help us in about 20 years when these guys try to start running the country-

Edited by AllenLowe
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What I see in younger players in general - not sure if it applies to the guys Alan is speaking of. Many - MOST - do not and have never played full time. They've never depended on it to eat and pay the rent and really can't identify with that reaity. The scarcity of full time "survival" gigs is affecting the business from every angle.

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that may be a part of it -

I've also wondered whether it's a local thing, a local guy who just has no real seriousness about the whole idea of music - which is, of course, similar to what Harold just said.

the problem in this area, when it comes to jazz, is that there are so few real bands, and everything is a pickup gig, Green Dolphin Street, etc. So I'm determined to actual create something with a book, and a point of view.

it gets to me, sometimes, though, with all this non-responsiveness. As I tell myself, I never had this problem with musicians who were much busier than these guys, and much more accomplished - Rudd, Hemphill, Shipp, Ribot, even David Murray - all always had the courtesy to respond, to say yes, no, maybe (or in Murray's case, "how much cash do you have?")

Edited by AllenLowe
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so here's what's been happening -

I've decided to form a band and actually start playing again - also, doing some video taping for a documentary -

mid summer: I have a friend, a great drummer, coming this direction from Canada for vacation - we decided to do a recording session. I book the studio. I call a bassist I heard recently - I book a rehearsal with him, and give him the date of the recording, He agrees to do it.

we do one rehearsal. As the recording date comes closed I call, I email - no response - I call, I email. No response. So I cancel the whole thing, though by this time my friend the drummer is already on his way, drums in the trunk of his car. He handles it fine, we hang, but no session,

the next month - I start to rehearse my new band - have a guitarist set to come - I email and call the bassist (a different one). He agrees on the time and place. The day comes, we sit and wait - one hour after the scheduled time, we give up, the guitarist goes home. Just after he leaves, the bass player calls. I don't feel like talking to the guy so I let it go - a few days later I hear from a friend of his that he feels bad because he screwed up and wasn't even in town on the day of the rehearsal.

two weeks later: I've been sitting in with this very good local, but young, band. We schedule a rehearsal for a Sunday, me and the bass and the drummer from this group. The day comes (as does the guitarist again) - no show for both of them. I email - the drummer, a complete asshole, sends me a cheerful email "sorry, yeah, I shoulda called, I had another session, gee, sorry, that was dumb of me. Talk to you later" The drummer is more genuinely apologetic, but he "spaced out. I was visiting a friend." My email to the drummer was basically, "no, we will not talk later 'cause you're an irresponsible jerk." I was nicer to the bass player, but since he's a friend of the drummer, he's offended by my email to the drummer and we're pretty much through (which is fine with me) -

so that's it for now, though I have a line on another drummer and bassist, am putting a book together, and I do have a great guitarist in the band, But I'm mystified by all the crap that's happening, though I chalk it up to the fact that all of these guys are barely 21-22 and extremely baby-ish, and that they see me simply as an unimportant old guy.

plus ça change! in my, and all my friends experience, bass players have always been a problem. Even 40 years ago it was hard to get one who was good and would turn up, especially to rehearsals. The main problem was their comparative scarcity - I mean who would rather play bass than a trumpet or saxophone or piano? In return for their sense of being taken for granted, put down rather than praised, no one really wanting to listen their solos and having to cart around a big fragile thing that doesn't fit in most cars and cab drivers hate, they get their revenge by being pretty much unavailable and almost never going out the door unless bread is involved.

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so here's what's been happening -

I've decided to form a band and actually start playing again - also, doing some video taping for a documentary -

mid summer: I have a friend, a great drummer, coming this direction from Canada for vacation - we decided to do a recording session. I book the studio. I call a bassist I heard recently - I book a rehearsal with him, and give him the date of the recording, He agrees to do it.

we do one rehearsal. As the recording date comes closed I call, I email - no response - I call, I email. No response. So I cancel the whole thing, though by this time my friend the drummer is already on his way, drums in the trunk of his car. He handles it fine, we hang, but no session,

the next month - I start to rehearse my new band - have a guitarist set to come - I email and call the bassist (a different one). He agrees on the time and place. The day comes, we sit and wait - one hour after the scheduled time, we give up, the guitarist goes home. Just after he leaves, the bass player calls. I don't feel like talking to the guy so I let it go - a few days later I hear from a friend of his that he feels bad because he screwed up and wasn't even in town on the day of the rehearsal.

two weeks later: I've been sitting in with this very good local, but young, band. We schedule a rehearsal for a Sunday, me and the bass and the drummer from this group. The day comes (as does the guitarist again) - no show for both of them. I email - the drummer, a complete asshole, sends me a cheerful email "sorry, yeah, I shoulda called, I had another session, gee, sorry, that was dumb of me. Talk to you later" The drummer is more genuinely apologetic, but he "spaced out. I was visiting a friend." My email to the drummer was basically, "no, we will not talk later 'cause you're an irresponsible jerk." I was nicer to the bass player, but since he's a friend of the drummer, he's offended by my email to the drummer and we're pretty much through (which is fine with me) -

so that's it for now, though I have a line on another drummer and bassist, am putting a book together, and I do have a great guitarist in the band, But I'm mystified by all the crap that's happening, though I chalk it up to the fact that all of these guys are barely 21-22 and extremely baby-ish, and that they see me simply as an unimportant old guy.

plus ça change! in my, and all my friends experience, bass players have always been a problem. Even 40 years ago it was hard to get one who was good and would turn up, especially to rehearsals. The main problem was their comparative scarcity - I mean who would rather play bass than a trumpet or saxophone or piano? In return for their sense of being taken for granted, put down rather than praised, no one really wanting to listen their solos and having to cart around a big fragile thing that doesn't fit in most cars and cab drivers hate, they get their revenge by being pretty much unavailable and almost never going out the door unless bread is involved.

What you're saying is true in many cases, but let's be fair: Milt Hinton had to be one of the busiest bass players ever, and he was partly b/c he considered bass a service and worked his ass off making a group swing, the music happen, and the leader look good. And he wasn't the only one. If players are more of a drag today it's b/c the world has changed and a lot of things are more of a drag. But there are still bass players out there, of all ages, who know what time it is. Edited by fasstrack
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Every bassist worth a hoot I've ever worked with has not had a problem with exerting control. Whether the personality fits the function or vice-versa I cannot say.

The wild card is how mature they are i where when when how, etc. they exert it.

but I'll tell you this - a bassist who is hesitant or in any other way reluctant to ever "take charge" is the first ingredient towards an unhappy musicalexperience.

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Most of the younger players are not worth spending the time on. They may be excellent players, but they don't have their acts together as human beings. There are exceptions of course.

I've encountered the types of behavior that you're describing more frequently with drummers than bassists though.

Yeah, it was always my understanding that drummers were the most notoriously unreliable or immature musicians.

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plus ça change! in my, and all my friends experience, bass players have always been a problem. Even 40 years ago it was hard to get one who was good and would turn up, especially to rehearsals. The main problem was their comparative scarcity - I mean who would rather play bass than a trumpet or saxophone or piano? In return for their sense of being taken for granted, put down rather than praised, no one really wanting to listen their solos and having to cart around a big fragile thing that doesn't fit in most cars and cab drivers hate, they get their revenge by being pretty much unavailable and almost never going out the door unless bread is involved.

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maybe as revenge I oughta pull a Joe Venuti - call all these various dumbass bassists, tell them there's a gig which pays $500 a man, and tell them to meet on the same corner - I could probably get back at at least 6 who have burned me this year -

Jim, bring your left foot -

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update -

well, I have a rehearsal today with a new bass player, very young as well - he says he'll show up. We'll see.

and even better - you may remember from the initial post that there was a drummer who didn't show up and who then sent me this idiot email to the effect of "sorry, yeah, I should called, but I was doing something else." Well, in my inimitable and irritating way I've been sending him emails (this guy REALLY pissed me off) - the last of which had in the subject line: BETTER CHECK YOUR CALENDER YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS A REHEARSAL -

he sent me an email to "stop fucken (sic) emailing me - want to fight, old man?"

now part of me doesn't want to engage with a crazy person, if that's what he is (physically he's a skinny 19 year old) - but I resent the threat and being called "old" which I feel is part of the problem, a real generational disrespect - on the other hand I did bait him. Still, he's a fuckhead either way. So far I have not responded, and probably will not.

what would you do?

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these are rehearsals, not gigs so I have not been paying anybody -

but I am one of the few musicians I know who always pays when someone's doing a recording -

and one of the reasons I have not worked in this town much is that younger musicians have pretty much destroyed the pay scale - as they routinely work for nothing.

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update -

well, I have a rehearsal today with a new bass player, very young as well - he says he'll show up. We'll see.

and even better - you may remember from the initial post that there was a drummer who didn't show up and who then sent me this idiot email to the effect of "sorry, yeah, I should called, but I was doing something else." Well, in my inimitable and irritating way I've been sending him emails (this guy REALLY pissed me off) - the last of which had in the subject line: BETTER CHECK YOUR CALENDER YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS A REHEARSAL -

he sent me an email to "stop fucken (sic) emailing me - want to fight, old man?"

now part of me doesn't want to engage with a crazy person, if that's what he is (physically he's a skinny 19 year old) - but I resent the threat and being called "old" which I feel is part of the problem, a real generational disrespect - on the other hand I did bait him. Still, he's a fuckhead either way. So far I have not responded, and probably will not.

what would you do?

Call Luca Brasi.

Just kidding, Forget this jerk. Would you ever use this guy on a gig again? I think not. Don't waste your time or energy.

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