Bad news from Mosaic

[David Ayers]

Did the price for that box come down again? It was pretty impossible to find a while back... but I definitely want the Mosaic as well, in this case! And I guess Ellington being a big name, it might also be a set where they actually could print a 10000 edition and sell it within a few years, no? The Capitol and Reprise sets went pretty fast (or rather: the Capitol was sold out quickly in the centennial year, I think).

I think the thing with this set is there are some floating around, but obviously amazon or anything like that is useless.

I agree that a full set would be welcome, and less of a gamble for Mosaic than projects by lesser-known musicians.

Edited September 11, 2009 by David Ayers

[J.A.W.]

I want that Ellington 30s set!

greg mo

I guess most folks already have the 2008 Euro-Sony Original Masters Ellington 1932-1939? Those are 'gray-market' in the USA for exactly the same copyright/royalty issues as affects 'Andorran' imports or 'Euro-Mosaics', so some may have scruples. If you can find one though they are dirt-cheap and well worth a few $$$ investment as a bulwark against the non-emergence of the proposed Mosaic 10CD epic.

Why would Euro-Sony releases be grey-market in the United States? They (Sony) own the rights, so they can do with the material as they see fit, both in Europe and anywhere else. Or am I missing something?

Edited September 11, 2009 by J.A.W.

[JohnS]

I, for one, have always taken the following attitude with the Mosaic sets that If I definitely/probably/leaning towards wanting it, and I happen to have a little extra cash, I just get it. The result of this was that when the bad news hit... I had nearly every set I wanted (- a few Selects which are still in print). The downsides is that there are some sets I was VERY disappointed in ... (most notably the Dinah Washington)....

I do the same! I preorder every set I'm interested in (at least at 60%), and so I did with the Ellingtons, the Basies, Goodman, Shaw, and quite all the recent sets. I wait the "last chanche" opportunity only for boxes I'm not interested in (the Dinah Washington, for example ) only for completeness... This time things went bad.

But I think the way to help Mosaic is to PREORDER sets. I can't wait the promised Ellington '30s, and I still hope in a Victor Goodman big band (you know the awful remasters of "Birth Of Swing" set).

Much the same for me. If I want something I try to get it as soon as possible, pre-ordering usually. This goes back to my collecting days when if you didn't grab something when you saw it you were likely never to see it again. This may just be a UK thing because US/Japanese/Euro imports of lps and cds were often here today gone tomorrow.

[David Ayers]

Why would Euro-Sony releases be grey-market in the United States? They (Sony) own the rights, so they can do with the material as they see fit, both in Europe and anywhere else. Or am I missing something?

In my interpretation, it would depend whether Sony imported them. The payments due to musicians in the U.S. would be higher than in Europe due to copyright expiration. I'm not sure about the music publishing rights which are of course the greater part of this. This is the same phenomenon that makes 'Andorran' releases legal in Europe but not in U.S. However if Sony were importing the items themselves and squaring the payments then matters sould be different. I am guessing, I suppose, that this is why these titles were issued only in Europe. With European copyright law changing and that set disappeared I guess it is pretty academic.

Edited September 11, 2009 by David Ayers

[RDK]

Why would Euro-Sony releases be grey-market in the United States? They (Sony) own the rights, so they can do with the material as they see fit, both in Europe and anywhere else. Or am I missing something?

In my interpretation, it would depend whether Sony imported them. The payments due to musicians in the U.S. would be higher than in Europe due to copyright expiration. I'm not sure about the music publishing rights which are of course the greater part of this. This is the same phenomenon that makes 'Andorran' releases legal in Europe but not in U.S. However if Sony were importing the items themselves and squaring the payments then matters sould be different. I am guessing, I suppose, that this is why these titles were issued only in Europe. With European copyright law changing and that set disappeared I guess it is pretty academic.

At the risk of going even further off topic, I wonder if that may be one reason Sony (in this instance) has released this set only in Europe. Maybe it's not so much to save money (i.e., not pay full U.S. royalties to the artists) but in order to get the set out in the first place at a price point they wouldn't otherwise be able to do if they had to pay full royalties? Sort of a chicken or egg situation, I know, but it is a dilemma for official music releases that might not sell in numbers big enough to be profitable for a major label.

[Ron S]

Johnny Richards-Mosaic Select

$47 on ebay sept 9

$88 on ebay sept 10

$104.22 on ebay sept 11 (also a "Buy It Now" price).

[mikelz777]

For those who are still searching, as of earlier today, the following OOP Selects are still available ("low stock") via Keenzo.com for $43.71 + $5.53 shipping as was mentioned in an earlier post:

Bud Shank / Bob Cooper

Bob Brookmeyer

Dexter Gordon

John Patton

Edited September 11, 2009 by mikelz777

[Ron S]

For those who are still searching, as of earlier today, the following OOP Selects are still available ("low stock") via Keenzo.com for $43.71 + $5.53 shipping as was mentioned in an earlier post:

Bud Shank / Bob Cooper

Bob Brookmeyer

Dexter Gordon

John Patton

I tried ordering the Johnny Richards from them yesterday when it was still listed as "low stock." Unfortunately, a telephone call to them today revealed that it actually was not in stock (and my order was automatically cancelled). I'd suggest that anyone else placing an order make a similar call.

[mikelz777]

For those who are still searching, as of earlier today, the following OOP Selects are still available ("low stock") via Keenzo.com for $43.71 + $5.53 shipping as was mentioned in an earlier post:

Bud Shank / Bob Cooper

Bob Brookmeyer

Dexter Gordon

John Patton

I tried ordering the Johnny Richards from them yesterday when it was still listed as "low stock." Unfortunately, a telephone call to them today revealed that it actually was not in stock (and my order was automatically cancelled). I'd suggest that anyone else placing an order make a similar call.

For what it's worth, the Johnny Richards was listed as "out of stock" when I checked the the other titles that are noted in my previous post. (still listed as "low stock") I just checked my bank and an authorization has been made on my account for the amount of the Bob Brookmeyer Select I ordered yesterday.

Edited September 11, 2009 by mikelz777

[Ron S]

For those who are still searching, as of earlier today, the following OOP Selects are still available ("low stock") via Keenzo.com for $43.71 + $5.53 shipping as was mentioned in an earlier post:

Bud Shank / Bob Cooper

Bob Brookmeyer

Dexter Gordon

John Patton

I tried ordering the Johnny Richards from them yesterday when it was still listed as "low stock." Unfortunately, a telephone call to them today revealed that it actually was not in stock (and my order was automatically cancelled). I'd suggest that anyone else placing an order make a similar call.

For what it's worth, the Johnny Richards was listed as "out of stock" when I checked the the other titles that are noted in my previous post. (still listed as "low stock") I just checked my bank and an authorization has been made on my account for the amount of the Bob Brookmeyer Select I ordered yesterday.

Not to pick nits, but my purchase of the Richards yesterday was also immediately authorized by my credit card company, and the out-of-stock status was apparently not discovered until my call today when the customer service rep placed me on hold, and returned to tell me that the distributor (whom I assume is the same for all the Selects) actually doesn't have any stock.

I hope the situation is different with the Brookmeyer, et al., but I'd still suggest making a call (Keenzo's phone number is available on the site) to verify that they're really available.

[Aggie87]

I agree with Ron, despite it being Ron that I agree with.

[Ron S]

I agree with Ron, despite it being Ron that I agree with.

Gee, thanks for your support.

[mikelz777]

Argh! I contacted Keenzo and the Brookmeyer is a no-go so I'm assuming the other titles are as well. The hunt goes on.

[CSB046]

Argh! I contacted Keenzo and the Brookmeyer is a no-go so I'm assuming the other titles are as well. The hunt goes on.

I just called Keenzo myself. I had ordered the Bud Shank and John Patton sets yesterday. Apparently the Shank is also a no-go, but the woman said she could send me the Patton. At least that's something!

Since I jumped into ordering from this site much quicker than I usually do with an online site, hopefully my partial refund won't prove to be an issue...

[Dave James]

Don't overlook Collector's Choice. Although my order hasn't been confirmed, I'm theoretically in line to receive the Lou Donaldson box. Total cost including S&H, $103.00. I'll report back once I know this is a "go". BTW, they have lots of Selects in addition to big boxes in their online catalog.

Up over and out.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Dave James

[CSB046]

Don't overlook Collector's Choice. Although my order hasn't been confirmed, I'm theoretically in line to receive the Lou Donaldson box. Total cost including S&H, $102.00. I'll report back once I know this is a "go". BTW, they have lots of Selects in addition to big boxes in their online catalog.

Up over and out.

Thanks for the tip.

I jumped right over there to place an order for the elusive Bud Shank. Unfortunately, it comes up on my order as "ships in 2-3 days." Since I suspect that might mean "we'll get you one from the manufacturer," I'm not too hopeful...

[Dave James]

I checked on a couple of other items that I know are readily available and it also says "Usually ships in 2-3 days", so I'm guessing (hoping) that this is standard operating procedure for Collector's Choice. We'll see soon enough.

Up over and out.

[Ron S]

Argh! I contacted Keenzo and the Brookmeyer is a no-go so I'm assuming the other titles are as well. The hunt goes on.

I just called Keenzo myself. I had ordered the Bud Shank and John Patton sets yesterday. Apparently the Shank is also a no-go, but the woman said she could send me the Patton. At least that's something!

Since I jumped into ordering from this site much quicker than I usually do with an online site, hopefully my partial refund won't prove to be an issue...

I don't think they actually charge your card until they ship. Only preauthorization occurs at time of order.

[CSB046]

Good point. That makes me feel a bit better.

[Clunky]

, I had the Patton on my wish list but didn't react quickly enough - I console myself that I have a fair bit of it on CD and LP.

after posting this yesterday I dropped Mosaic an email bemoaning their loss and asking in vain if there was a Patton set kicking about.

I wondered if in the chaos, underestimates of stock held might have occurred. Well amazingly I got a reply this evening , Cindy had a copy of the Patton select for me :excited: .... enough said, I am amazed to have been so lucky. No harm in asking.

[greggery peccary]

Don't overlook Collector's Choice. Although my order hasn't been confirmed, I'm theoretically in line to receive the Lou Donaldson box. Total cost including S&H, $103.00. I'll report back once I know this is a "go". BTW, they have lots of Selects in addition to big boxes in their online catalog.

Up over and out.

I hate to be that guy.....I just called Collectors Choice and they said the Lou set is currently out of stock.....

[Ron S]

I keep striking out on the Richards. Maybe I should email Cindy?

[Tjazz]

Mosaic Select: Pacific Jazz Piano Trios (MS-019)

"The six tracks that represent virtually the entire legacy of Richard Twardzik as leader are of special interest, but the set succeeds on the strength of the contributions of Freeman and Fischer." - Duck Baker, Coda

There's a SEALED box set for $36 (taxes included) at Record Surplus, Los Angeles.

[Dave James]

Don't overlook Collector's Choice. Although my order hasn't been confirmed, I'm theoretically in line to receive the Lou Donaldson box. Total cost including S&H, $103.00. I'll report back once I know this is a "go". BTW, they have lots of Selects in addition to big boxes in their online catalog.

Up over and out.

I hate to be that guy.....I just called Collectors Choice and they said the Lou set is currently out of stock.....

Nice of them to update their website.

Up over and out.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Dave James

[sidewinder]

Don't overlook Collector's Choice. Although my order hasn't been confirmed, I'm theoretically in line to receive the Lou Donaldson box. Total cost including S&H, $103.00. I'll report back once I know this is a "go". BTW, they have lots of Selects in addition to big boxes in their online catalog.

Up over and out.

I hate to be that guy.....I just called Collectors Choice and they said the Lou set is currently out of stock.....

I 'reserved' that Donaldson set at Collector's Choice and got the same message too. In fact I got a second message to say that my order had been 'cancelled' as per my request. Huh?

'I'm Spartacus..'

Edited September 11, 2009 by sidewinder