Dave James

Worst Rock Drummers

145 posts in this topic

Your assertion that The Doors are dated is a tough charge to refute. The fact that they have not made a new recording in almost 40 years is, indeed, a roadblock to relevance. However, outside of the Dead and maybe, Santana, I'm not sure your argument isn't that The Doors are dated but that any music from that era is dated. I've been around the block enough times to realize that my opinion is only one of many, so I do respect your position. After all, disagreement is part of what makes music fun. All I'm saying with regard to The Doors is don't base decisions on their studio work. That's a poor representation of their viability. Much like the Dead, their power, credibility and relevance derive from the legacy of their live recordings. That's the way I choose to view them. But, If you absolutlely demand currency, look at Morrison as the original tea bagger; he's mad as hell and he isn't going to take it any more. Or, if you like, think of him as an early environmentalist based on lyrics like this; "What have they done to the earth? What have they done to our fair sister?"

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"Dated" never works as a criticism to me, considering that when something was recorded isn't a part of my criteria for judging music. The era that the Doors come from is overwhelmingly great, in practically every genre.

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Your assertion that The Doors are dated is a tough charge to refute. The fact that they have not made a new recording in almost 40 years is, indeed, a roadblock to relevance. However, outside of the Dead and maybe, Santana, I'm not sure your argument isn't that The Doors are dated but that any music from that era is dated. I've been around the block enough times to realize that my opinion is only one of many, so I do respect your position. After all, disagreement is part of what makes music fun. All I'm saying with regard to The Doors is don't base decisions on their studio work. That's a poor representation of their viability. Much like the Dead, their power, credibility and relevance derive from the legacy of their live recordings. That's the way I choose to view them. But, If you absolutlely demand currency, look at Morrison as the original tea bagger; he's mad as hell and he isn't going to take it any more. Or, if you like, think of him as an early environmentalist based on lyrics like this; "What have they done to the earth? What have they done to our fair sister?"

How you you possibly know what my criteria for "dated" is? I too have been around the block many more than a few times as far as music is concerned. Miles Davis, for instance, never sounds dated to me. Hell, neither does Duke Ellington. The Doors, to me, were very much a product of their time, maybe moreso than many other bands of that era. Picture it: disenfranchised baby-boomers who had had enough of their parents, their government and their war. Manzarek's organ sound didn't help matters much either.

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"Or Brand X, or all the studio sessions he participated in. He was a great drummer."

Phil Collins was a great drummer, just listen to any Brand X album (or even early Genesis). Not many rock drummers could compete with him technically.

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Miles Davis, for instance, never sounds dated to me.

Really? Does that include Tutu?

Edited by Jay

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How you you possibly know what my criteria for "dated" is?

You're right, I couldn't possibly know what your criteria is. What is it?

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"Dated" never works as a criticism to me, considering that when something was recorded isn't a part of my criteria for judging music. The era that the Doors come from is overwhelmingly great, in practically every genre.

I agree completely.

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Do you mean that the Doors are great by association with a great era for music?

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No. I think the Doors are great because they wrote a number of terrific songs and left a legacy of fantastic live and studio recordings. It just so happens that their recordings were made at an amazing boom-time for music in general, so something feeling "dated" to that era only means associating The Doors with greatness, as far as I'm concerned.

However, I agree with you completely that "everyone's entitled to their own tastes in music" and your distaste for The Doors is perfectly justified, by your own criteria.

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Getting back to the origin of this thread, and closing the Doors on digression, it's occurred to me that someone could be a perfectly good drummer, either 'technically' and/or in other styles, and still not be a very good 'rock drummer', if not nec'ly 'the worst'.

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Miles Davis, for instance, never sounds dated to me.

Really? Does that include Tutu?

Having just listened to Tutu recently- I wouldn't call it dated. In my estimation half the material just isn't up to par. The other half is just fine, especially if you have any inclination towards late period Miles.

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Vinnie Coliauta's a pretty bad drummer (technically proficient, but overkill), but he was recently eviscerated in a different thread.

I've always been disappointed with Robert Williams's work with Beefheart - he sounds so careful, as if he's reading off sheet music. Such a sad comparison with Drumbo, who just swings, drives the music. A great comparison is on Doc At The Radar Station - there's such a difference on the track Drumbo drums on ("Sheriff of Hong Kong").

I've always disliked the drumming on Blonde on Blonde - it's so placid. Again, a good comparison is the one track with The Hawks ("Sooner or Later One of Us Must Know") - I forget if that was Levon Helm or Bobby somebody, probably the latter.

I want to recant my diss on Robert Williams. He's totally great on Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller).

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It amazes me how such a crappy band as the Doors put out so much fine music...

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It amazes me how such a crappy band as the Doors put out so much fine music...

That's the paradox of a lot of rock bands.

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Ginger Baker

much love for ginger he sparred (on his own accord) with Blakey Elvin etc to show his talents ( he is talented n Blakey for arguments sake fell back on his usual technique)

we're cool despite his doichebag behaviors but I wanted to correct a mistake I made about Phil Collins in this thread where I dismissed him; I couldn't be more wrong I'm embarrassed n wanted to clear up much love for his contribution to what's made genesis so great.

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At an all time low ginger baker went back to his roots n went straight back to jazz (anyone own no material)?

Edited by Holy Ghost

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Oh yeah, this old "let's bash on rock musician thread", I had almost forgotten about it. A shame it was revived.

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Worst Rock Dreamers?

Nightmare's more iike it!

Can't blame it on old age, either.

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Oh yeah, this old "let's bash on rock musician thread", I had almost forgotten about it. A shame it was revived.

Escaped me at the time. It was interesting (and fun) reading it now. ;)

BTW, the online edition of a German weekly has a story on Pink Floyd drummer NICK MASON today. Headline: "My drumming is brilliant. Always has been."

Any opinions? :g

Worst Rock Dreamers?

Nightmare's more iike it!

For each of the more insipid flash-in-the-pan British 60s bands there were dozens of sugary American "boy next door" schmaltzies who could (then) and still can (now) cause similar nightmares to those who like their (pop/rock) music with a bit of substance. Avalon, Clanton, Vinton, Vee, Rydell, plus all the lesser lights, you name them ..

About time the British bands blew them off the stages back then and changed the course of pop/rock music for good ... :lol:

Edited by Big Beat Steve

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