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Poor albums by good artists


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Most of us, I guess, will go for pretty well anything by a good artist. But no one makes only good records and a list of uncharacteristically poor records might be useful.

So here are a few candidates from me.

Wynton Kelly - Comin' in the back door - Verve

Wynton Kelly - It's all right - Verve (not quite as bad as the other)

Hampton Hawes - Movie musicals - Vault

Ray Bryant - Jazz soul of Hollywood - Columbia

Lou Donaldson - A different scene - Cotillion

Lou Donaldson - Color as a way of life - Cotillion

Willis Jackson - Plays around with the hits - Trip

Willis Jackson - The way we were - Atlantic (not as bad as the Donaldsons)

Willis Jackson - Plays with feeling - Cotillion (not as bad as the Donaldsons)

Nat Adderley - Double exposure - Prestige

Gene Ammons - Brasswind - Prestige (unless you're a big fan of David Axelrod - but Jug really doesn't sound healthy on this)

Plenty more, I've no doubt.

MG

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The Junior Mance Touch may have been a great album if the bass player had bothered to tune prior to rolling tape. That rendered it unlistenable for me. Where was the producer?

:) I've got that lined up to listen to later. Never noticed before, but I don't think I have the kind of ear that can tell.

MG

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Very interesting thread, MG, and I'll probably come back to it again as more things occur to me.

IMHO 5 By Monk By 5 drags in comparison with the master's other Riverside albums. (The critics of Art Taylor on the board will probably point the finger at him.)

In my youth it was put about that Charlie Parker Plays Cole Porter as a very late album wasn't up to his usual standards, and I guess this is true. But in comparison with other artists, everything by Bird is touched with gold and I bought the CD recently and love it, not just for Bird, but for things like Roy Haynes' drumming, too.

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Most of us, I guess, will go for pretty well anything by a good artist. But no one makes only good records and a list of uncharacteristically poor records might be useful.

So here are a few candidates from me.

Wynton Kelly - Comin' in the back door - VerveMG

I would reconsider that one. I used to have it. Agreed, some of the backgrounds are hokey and probably were added later. But there's a calypso, Little Tracy, he plays his ass off on. It was a in a book of transcriptions, too, as I recall. There was a ballad that was good, too. Nocturne? Anyway, Verve probably pressured him in some way or promisied a date more to his liking---I'm guessing.

On a lot of these dates, even on Blue Note, companies/producers required the players to put at least one boogaloo on a session. Cats did what they had to and there still was good music (case in point: Hank Mobley: Thinking of Home----which wasn't even released til after he died)---a tribute to their talents.

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Very interesting thread, MG, and I'll probably come back to it again as more things occur to me.

IMHO 5 By Monk By 5 drags in comparison with the master's other Riverside albums. (The critics of Art Taylor on the board will probably point the finger at him.)

In my youth it was put about that Charlie Parker Plays Cole Porter as a very late album wasn't up to his usual standards, and I guess this is true. But in comparison with other artists, everything by Bird is touched with gold and I bought the CD recently and love it, not just for Bird, but for things like Roy Haynes' drumming, too.

I have always thought that "5 By Monk By 5" was one of his greatest albums. Thad Jones plays great on the album, fitting in with Monk but keeping his unique style. To me, the ensembles are more cohesive, the rhythms more swinging, than on most of Monk's Riversides.

In my opinion, apart from "Brilliant Corners", "5 By Monk By 5" is his best album ever.

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Very interesting thread, MG, and I'll probably come back to it again as more things occur to me.

IMHO 5 By Monk By 5 drags in comparison with the master's other Riverside albums. (The critics of Art Taylor on the board will probably point the finger at him.)

In my youth it was put about that Charlie Parker Plays Cole Porter as a very late album wasn't up to his usual standards, and I guess this is true. But in comparison with other artists, everything by Bird is touched with gold and I bought the CD recently and love it, not just for Bird, but for things like Roy Haynes' drumming, too.

He was not well when he made that and it was never finished. But his dark sound and musical coherence compared to the more famous Lover Man date make this a better document IMO of a great artist triumphing over personal anguish.
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Any time a true jazz artist ventured outside of his or her wheelhouse in deference to popular trends, it makes for some sticky possibilities. I've long railed against the final disc in the Mosaic Gerald Wilson set what with his treatment of true jazz standards such as Light My Fire :bad: . Art Blakey's Buttercorn Lady was, at best, incredibly ill-advised. One other oddball effort that didn't turn out so good was Sun Ra's doo wop album, Spaceways. Also, just about any post-C.T.I. effort by Stanley Turrentine or, Donald Byrd after someone told him he was a funky, happenin' dude and he bought into it completely.

And, yes, a great idea for a thread.

Up over and out.

Edited by Dave James
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When Mingus' "Three or Four Shades of Blues" was first released, the guy behind the counter at Discount Records on State Street in Madison, Wis. tried his best to talk me out of buying it. He became a bit heated as he provided his negative opinions about the album.

However, I have always liked it. I do not like the bellowing vocal on "Better Get It In Your Soul", but I think that the rest of the album is fine. I enjoy the title cut, especially when it shifts into the Basie-style section.

I think that the guitars are used with restraint and taste, for the most part.

It is not my favorite Mingus album, but it is solidly in a middle tier for me of Mingus albums.

I love how Mingus, in his written section explanations for the title cut, refers to the Wedding March as Caucasian folk blues.

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Jamalca by Ahmad Jamal.

Not that Ahmad plays bad on it but he can't overcome the cheesy strings and anonymous backup singers. Now when I am in the mood I love some good blaxploitation-tinged strings (like the Richard Evans Cadet sides) if the funk is there but this record is just pure sell out crossover velveta.

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Wynton Kelly - Comin' in the back door - VerveMG
I would reconsider that one. I used to have it. Agreed, some of the backgrounds are hokey and probably were added later. But there's a calypso, Little Tracy, he plays his ass off on. It was a in a book of transcriptions, too, as I recall. There was a ballad that was good, too. Nocturne? Anyway, Verve probably pressured him in some way or promisied a date more to his liking---I'm guessing.

Yes, I agree "Tracy" is nice. And "Signing off" is a nice number. But overall, it's one that can be overlooked in comfort :)

On a lot of these dates, even on Blue Note, companies/producers required the players to put at least one boogaloo on a session. Cats did what they had to and there still was good music (case in point: Hank Mobley: Thinking of Home----which wasn't even released til after he died)---a tribute to their talents.

Yes, I wasn't thinking of albums where only a track or two were - let's say, untypical. I think we fanatics ought to be able to put up with that and grin. And, you know, one boogaloo by Hank, is still a bogaloo by Hank (etc etc).

MG

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while I'm listening to Jackie Mac's "Jack Knife" might as well mention the oft cited "Monuments". Never heard it and don't want to. "Feets Don't Fail Me Now" by Herbie Hancock, and virtually anything from the Columbia period not released in Japan save "VSOP" and "The Quintet". "Sit On It", "Unfinished Business" and "The Cat Strikes Again" by JOS. "Stone Blue" by Pat Martino, mostly b/c for 1997 theres horribly dated synths, namely gratuitous use of the DX7.

Edited by CJ Shearn
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Turrentine's "Always Something There" is a prime example of crud!

I actually like that album. It reminds me of something that a couple who met on The Dating Game would listen to over fondue following their six-night stay in romantic Puerto Rico!

71836748_d18a1b994e.jpg

This album would have worked with either a different arranger or a different pianist.

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When Mingus' "Three or Four Shades of Blues" was first released, the guy behind the counter at Discount Records on State Street in Madison, Wis. tried his best to talk me out of buying it. He became a bit heated as he provided his negative opinions about the album.

However, I have always liked it. I do not like the bellowing vocal on "Better Get It In Your Soul", but I think that the rest of the album is fine. I enjoy the title cut, especially when it shifts into the Basie-style section.

I think that the guitars are used with restraint and taste, for the most part.

It is not my favorite Mingus album, but it is solidly in a middle tier for me of Mingus albums.

I love how Mingus, in his written section explanations for the title cut, refers to the Wedding March as Caucasian folk blues.

I certainly respect your opinion, and I expected this one to incite defenders, but I can't listen to this one. I try, and after about three minutes take it off, no matter what point I start from. Years ago I dutifully listened to it straight through a number of times. Not now.

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71836748_d18a1b994e.jpg

This album would have worked with either a different arranger or a different pianist.

At a reading last night at City Lights Bookstore, I believe I remember Robin Kelley speaking pejoratively about this album, as an example of the negative effects of Columbia trying to sell Monk.

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At a reading last night at City Lights Bookstore, I believe I remember Robin Kelley speaking pejoratively about this album, as an example of the negative effects of Columbia trying to sell Monk.

I really wanted to go to that but couldn't. Did you enjoy it? I will buy the book this weekend.

Always avoided that album, still no desire to try it.

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At a reading last night at City Lights Bookstore, I believe I remember Robin Kelley speaking pejoratively about this album, as an example of the negative effects of Columbia trying to sell Monk.

I really wanted to go to that but couldn't. Did you enjoy it? I will buy the book this weekend.

Always avoided that album, still no desire to try it.

I thoroughly enjoyed it. I'll post a synopsis in the thread on his book, when I get a chance.

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I love Al and Zoot, but find their Hoagy Carmichael album limp. Fortunately, in its present incarnation on Lonehill it's paired with Either Way, which is a gas. (I have no objection to the singing of Cecil "Kid Haffey" Collier, by the way.)

After Miles Ahead, Porgy and Bess and Sketches of Spain, it's generally recognized that Miles and Gil produced a clunker in Quiet Nights.

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Any late 60s/early 70s Blue Note album. Turrentine's "Always Something There" is a prime example of crud!

Albums that are too greasy also annoy the hell out of me.

Lee Morgan (aka Last Session) and Lee Morgan Live at the Lighthouse are fabulous, desert island discs for me.

Larry Young, Bobby Hutcherson and McCoy Tyner also did good work during this period.

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Any late 60s/early 70s Blue Note album. Turrentine's "Always Something There" is a prime example of crud!

Albums that are too greasy also annoy the hell out of me.

Lee Morgan (aka Last Session) and Lee Morgan Live at the Lighthouse are fabulous, desert island discs for me.

Larry Young, Bobby Hutcherson and McCoy Tyner also did good work during this period.

Ok, I'll give you those four!

But most of it was dreck. How 'bout Turrentine's "The Look of Love"?

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I love Al and Zoot, but find their Hoagy Carmichael album limp. Fortunately, in its present incarnation on Lonehill it's paired with Either Way, which is a gas. (I have no objection to the singing of Cecil "Kid Haffey" Collier, by the way.)

After Miles Ahead, Porgy and Bess and Sketches of Spain, it's generally recognized that Miles and Gil produced a clunker in Quiet Nights.

Quiet Nights should not have been released at the time in the form it was. It was not finished, maybe it was never intended to be finished, but that was not the album that Miles and Gil wanted us to hear. In my opinion if it's a clunker, it is a clunker produced by Teo Macerio, not Miles and Gil.

And despite that I like it. It has brilliant moments!

Edited by jazzbo
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