Django Reinhardt Centennial

[kh1958]

I have a lot of Django in my collection. Does anyone have thoughts or opinions about the JSP/Ted Kendall Django on the Radio set? I know I don't need it, but .... (Most of you know how that goes.)

I have the very same question.

[neveronfriday]

I went the Frémeaux route and have not looked back since.

The sound is excellent, [...]

FWIW: This is the outfit that remastered the Frémaux reissues: http://www.parelies.com/

[tatifan]

Minimal in the sense of lacking personnel info? I would imagine that the EMI has better sound, though, since EMI made the original recordings.

I haven't heard anything from this Django set but, in my experience, EMI hardly ever has better sound on anything.

Correct. They tend to apply noise reduction very generously to older stuff; the EMI Artur Schnabel box is a prime example.

Yep, that Schnabel Beethoven is a prime example of what can go wrong in the transfer biz....in the early lp era EMI made transfers to tape for their first lp issue on the COLH series, then DESTROYED the masters (as they were now preserved with a never to be outmoded format, eh?), so that all that is left to work from are those old tapes (which is why the EMI set sounds awful), and why say, the Naxos transfers are more full bodied, but noisier (taken from commercial pressings), and ultimately better to live with, IMHO. There ARE some good EMI 78 transfers, but I must say, precious few are from the French branch, and overall they DO tend to recycle transfers.

I really DO need to try the Fremeaux sets, because, to my ears, since this lp era Djangology set, NONE of the EMI Django transfers sound like they have gone back to the masters. I even have my doubts about the Mosaic....I think they did the best they could, but I really think that EMI supplied TAPES to Mosaic, not metal parts/masters, etc. They have that same tendency to spike unpleasantly on bright sounds in the recordings, and have no real bass, problems that a good source, even commercial pressings, properly transferred, should not display. I LOVE the sound on the Decca recordings in the first JSP set, but I don't hear much difference between even that set and the Mosaic in the Hot Club EMI material...of course, JSP has been known to "borrow" transfers....I think the other JSP sets are worth getting, and sound fine, but those with the Mosaic definitely do not need Vol. 2 of the JSP series.

It's not like all of this ruins listening to Django on whatever the source is, but I've always wondered if these records could sound better. I had hoped the Djangotennary would bring out the best effort from EMI, but it seems not!

[neveronfriday]

I'm not - from a distance - convinced by that Frémeaux series either. That mastering outfit I linked to does not at all sound like one that takes great care in restoring music like that and I highly doubt they were given access to any masters.

That's the problem, as some have stated above, with Reinhardt's material altogether. I can't really recall any version I've heard (or have) that sounds meticulously remastered. I have some of those cheaper sets mentioned above and they all strike me as rather bland.

I'd love to go for the Frémeaux, but it's too much money for me if we're talking 5% sound improvement.

I'll wait for many more votes on sound to roll in before I plunk down a single cent.

Edited January 18, 2010 by neveronfriday

[J.A.W.]

I heard a Frémeaux CD a few years ago. Someone had recommended it for its sonics, but I wasn't impressed. It was only one CD and it doesn't say anything about their other CDs, of course, but I have my doubts.

[king ubu]

The CD-sized Djangologie box.

Digipacks inside.

Thanks, Brownie.

Seems the EMI "Djangologie" has minimal info... Frémeaux is the route to take, I guess!

Minimal in the sense of lacking personnel info? I would imagine that the EMI has better sound, though, since EMI made the original recordings.

my own, rough translation from "Jazz Magazine" Jan 2010, p.26:

"Collecting the recordings from the Pathé catalogue (EMI), 'Djangologie' was one fo the first large complete editions on LP ever dedicated to a jazz musician, and was a reference until the appearance of the compact disc (...). Three decades after the advent of CDs, EMI finally offers a CD version for a price around 51€ with (mini lp or digipack?) sleeves, facsimiles of the 18 original sleeves, with no liner notes or an additional booklet."

Further the short review says it's actually not complete, spanning 1928-1950, with 2 bonus CDs (27 "unreleased" tracks, their quotation marks) from the Rome sessions in 1949 and 1950.

"If you compare it with the track listing of the complete edition on Frémeaux, you'll see that in fact there are but three unreleased titles: Nature Boy, Night and Day and a third version of Micro. The rest is more complete on Frémeaux."

And then they add a note snorting at EMI for being one of the biggest obstacles for Frémeaux!

[brownie]

"If you compare it with the track listing of the complete edition on Frémeaux, you'll see that in fact there are but three unreleased titles: Nature Boy, Night and Day and a third version of Micro. The rest is more complete on Frémeaux."

I would not purchase the Djangologie box for these three tracks. Presume they will be added to the third re-reissue box from Frémeaux!

From neveronfriday:

I'm not - from a distance - convinced by that Frémeaux series either. That mastering outfit I linked to does not at all sound like one that takes great care in restoring music like that and I highly doubt they were given access to any masters.

François Terrazzoni who mastered with great care all the Django Frémeaux sets also mastered many Masters of Jazz releases (Ellington, Basie, Hampton, Charlie Christian, among others). He did a great job on all those!

[AllenLowe]

oy - does this mean a rash of new Gypsy Jazz tributes? Those guys all sound like they just stepped out of a meth lab.

[Ted O'Reilly]

"If you compare it with the track listing of the complete edition on Frémeaux, you'll see that in fact there are but three unreleased titles: Nature Boy, Night and Day and a third version of Micro. The rest is more complete on Frémeaux."

I would not purchase the Djangologie box for these three tracks. Presume they will be added to the third re-reissue box from Frémeaux!

From neveronfriday:

I'm not - from a distance - convinced by that Frémeaux series either. That mastering outfit I linked to does not at all sound like one that takes great care in restoring music like that and I highly doubt they were given access to any masters.

François Terrazzoni who mastered with great care all the Django Frémeaux sets also mastered many Masters of Jazz releases (Ellington, Basie, Hampton, Charlie Christian, among others). He did a great job on all those!

I have a couple of Terrazzoni'd Dreyfus CDs of Eliington material, "Ko-Ko" (FDM 36717) and "Take The A Train" (FDM 36732) which are as good as any transfers I've ever heard. Am playing them right now, just to remind myself of their amazing quality.

Lots of audio credits: (sorry for lack of diacritical marks)

Transfers and Noise removal: Francois & Anne-Marie Terrazzoni - Studio Parelies

Spacialization and Sound treatment - RERFRA Process: Rene Ameline, Assistant: Philippe Arnal

Premastering: Rene Ameline and Francis Dreyfus - Assistant: Pedja

Mastering: Rene Ameline and Philippe Arnal

Of all these people, is there only one we should thank, as it seems they all had a part in what we hear?

[J.A.W.]

"If you compare it with the track listing of the complete edition on Frémeaux, you'll see that in fact there are but three unreleased titles: Nature Boy, Night and Day and a third version of Micro. The rest is more complete on Frémeaux."

I would not purchase the Djangologie box for these three tracks. Presume they will be added to the third re-reissue box from Frémeaux!

From neveronfriday:

I'm not - from a distance - convinced by that Frémeaux series either. That mastering outfit I linked to does not at all sound like one that takes great care in restoring music like that and I highly doubt they were given access to any masters.

François Terrazzoni who mastered with great care all the Django Frémeaux sets also mastered many Masters of Jazz releases (Ellington, Basie, Hampton, Charlie Christian, among others). He did a great job on all those!

I have a couple of Terrazzoni'd Dreyfus CDs of Eliington material, "Ko-Ko" (FDM 36717) and "Take The A Train" (FDM 36732) which are as good as any transfers I've ever heard. Am playing them right now, just to remind myself of their amazing quality.

Lots of audio credits: (sorry for lack of diacritical marks)

Transfers and Noise removal: Francois & Anne-Marie Terrazzoni - Studio Parelies

Spacialization and Sound treatment - RERFRA Process: Rene Ameline, Assistant: Philippe Arnal

Premastering: Rene Ameline and Francis Dreyfus - Assistant: Pedja

Mastering: Rene Ameline and Philippe Arnal

Of all these people, is there only one we should thank, as it seems they all had a part in what we hear?

To my ears the "Noise removal" is exactly the problem with those Dreyfus Ellington CDs. They sound dead as a dodo to me; the loss of higher frequencies info is very obvious. In my opinion Terrazzoni did a much better job in the mid-1990s with some of the Masters of Jazz CDs that Brownie mentioned.

Edited January 19, 2010 by J.A.W.

[Ted O'Reilly]

"If you compare it with the track listing of the complete edition on Frémeaux, you'll see that in fact there are but three unreleased titles: Nature Boy, Night and Day and a third version of Micro. The rest is more complete on Frémeaux."

I would not purchase the Djangologie box for these three tracks. Presume they will be added to the third re-reissue box from Frémeaux!

From neveronfriday:

I'm not - from a distance - convinced by that Frémeaux series either. That mastering outfit I linked to does not at all sound like one that takes great care in restoring music like that and I highly doubt they were given access to any masters.

François Terrazzoni who mastered with great care all the Django Frémeaux sets also mastered many Masters of Jazz releases (Ellington, Basie, Hampton, Charlie Christian, among others). He did a great job on all those!

I have a couple of Terrazzoni'd Dreyfus CDs of Eliington material, "Ko-Ko" (FDM 36717) and "Take The A Train" (FDM 36732) which are as good as any transfers I've ever heard. Am playing them right now, just to remind myself of their amazing quality.

Lots of audio credits: (sorry for lack of diacritical marks)

Transfers and Noise removal: Francois & Anne-Marie Terrazzoni - Studio Parelies

Spacialization and Sound treatment - RERFRA Process: Rene Ameline, Assistant: Philippe Arnal

Premastering: Rene Ameline and Francis Dreyfus - Assistant: Pedja

Mastering: Rene Ameline and Philippe Arnal

Of all these people, is there only one we should thank, as it seems they all had a part in what we hear?

To my ears the "Noise removal" is exactly the problem with those Dreyfus Ellington CDs. They sound dead as a dodo to me; the loss of higher frequencies info is very obvious. In my opinion Terrazzoni did a much better job in the mid-1990s with some of the Masters of Jazz CDs that Brownie mentioned.

Hmmm....they sound all right to me. Just because you can hear the bottom doesn't mean the top isn't there.

I don't know the Masters of Jazz CDs. I'll look into them - thanks to you and Brownie for the tip.

[J.A.W.]

Just because you can hear the bottom doesn't mean the top isn't there.

That's not what I said, I wasn't talking about the bottom end. What I meant is that to my ears the higher frequencies have suffered badly from the use of "noise removal".

[J.A.W.]

I don't know the Masters of Jazz CDs. I'll look into them - thanks to you and Brownie for the tip.

You're welcome, and good luck - the MoJ CDs are long OOP and most are hard to find and sometimes very expensive.

Edited January 19, 2010 by J.A.W.

[ASNL77]

I pre-ordered the Integrale Reinhardt vol.2 1938-47 (Fremeaux) on Amazon.fr a couple of weeks ago for 12.08 euros. This was clearly a mistake as this set contains 14 CDs. A few minutes after I had placed my order the price had already been changed to 58.95 euros. Fingers crossed. I hope they won't realise they've cocked it up.

Edited January 20, 2010 by ASNL77

[Brownian Motion]

I have a lot of Django in my collection. Does anyone have thoughts or opinions about the JSP/Ted Kendall Django on the Radio set? I know I don't need it, but .... (Most of you know how that goes.)

I'd like to hear opinions on this set too.

oy - does this mean a rash of new Gypsy Jazz tributes? Those guys all sound like they just stepped out of a meth lab.

This is hilarious!