78 "print through"

[Chuck Nessa]

Here is a message I posted in another forum:

Hot Fives by some trumpet player.

I have the Sony/Schapp and the Chronological Classics versions (dumped the JSP because I preferred the Classics on average and bought the cheap reissue of the Sony for comparison). I know a fair amount about the various recording/manufacturing practices through the years but wonder why both versions of King of the Zulus have "post-echo"? Would this have been a plating problem with the original master? That's all I can figure. Maybe I'll post this under another topic.

This post has been edited by Chuck Nessa: Today, 06:44 PM

and Clifford posted this:

Please do; the pre/post-echo thing is always a curiosity to me, especially as we were taught in audio preservation courses that it resulted from the condition of the tapes. When you hear it on an LP it leads one to wonder if they were damaged before they got the chance to deteriorate.

I can add that I am the master of pre/post-echo on tape. I can answer all kinds of questions about that.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Chuck Nessa

[clifford_thornton]

OK, I'll shoot:

Before tape-baking was common practice, what were engineers doing to correct this effect?

Did the echo result from improper storage of the tape, or were there other factors to consider, such as the brand of tape? (I had always thought it took a long time - years - to develop a print-through, which is why it was surprising to hear the result on some LPs)

Thanks!

[Chuck Nessa]

Tape baking does not have anything to do with it.

Improper storage can add to the problem but does not always cause it. "Proper tape storage" usually means "tails out" so the echo is buried in later sounds. In the '60s the tape from most manufacturers was "hot" enough to print through on the first pass of the tape heads. My early sessions exhibited print on the first playback during the session. I have spent untold hours removing it from my reissues. I have been about 95% effective. On lps (and maybe 78s) there is another pre-echo caused by some sort of molecule shifting in the metal plating process - this was explained to me by RVG. Somewhere on my Mac I have a screen shot of the edits made for the reissue of the solo tracks from Congliptious. Astounding.

[Teasing the Korean]

This is a real issue. In recent years I have digitized some of my parents' jingles sessions from reel tapes. If the levels are hot and there's a lot of music going on, you don't notice, but in the quiet passages, you hear it. I have not thought about comparing brands of tape to see if some are better or worse.

[clifford_thornton]

Thanks, Chuck.

So before using digital methods, how would such a problem be corrected?

[kt66brooklyn]

Here is a message I posted in another forum:

Hot Fives by some trumpet player.

I have the Sony/Schapp and the Chronological Classics versions (dumped the JSP because I preferred the Classics on average and bought the cheap reissue of the Sony for comparison). I know a fair amount about the various recording/manufacturing practices through the years but wonder why both versions of King of the Zulus have "post-echo"? Would this have been a plating problem with the original master? That's all I can figure. Maybe I'll post this under another topic.

This post has been edited by Chuck Nessa: Today, 06:44 PM

and Clifford posted this:

Please do; the pre/post-echo thing is always a curiosity to me, especially as we were taught in audio preservation courses that it resulted from the condition of the tapes. When you hear it on an LP it leads one to wonder if they were damaged before they got the chance to deteriorate.

I can add that I am the master of pre/post-echo on tape. I can answer all kinds of questions about that.

The post echo is present on my Okeh 78 pressing from the 20's.

Edited December 18, 2009 by smashingthirds