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BFT 71 Discussion thread


jeffcrom

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Blindfold Test #71 is now up and running. Post your comments here.

The first 11 tracks are a chronological stroll through the history of jazz - one track per decade, starting with the 1900s. Tracks 12-14 are bonus tracks that don't fit into the theme, but that I found interesting.

Hope you enjoy it. I'm looking forward to your comments.

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Gave a very quick skim through of some of the later tracks last night. Immediately recognized #12 because I have it in my collection. (Should give a thanks to Chuck on this one. I picked it up because of a mention he made.)

Don't want to give it away this early, but it's (I believe) the only time that two great tenor saxes recorded together.

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Gave a very quick skim through of some of the later tracks last night. Immediately recognized #12 because I have it in my collection. (Should give a thanks to Chuck on this one. I picked it up because of a mention he made.)

Don't want to give it away this early, but it's (I believe) the only time that two great tenor saxes recorded together.

I was unsure of how many people would be familiar with track 12 – I actually hope it’s a lot, because it’s such an interesting recording. One of the tenor players’ solo is perhaps my favorite 16 measures by him.

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OK - #12 is the 1953 Metronome All Stars with vocalist Billy Eckstine and, among others, Lester Young and Warne Marsh.

Full personnel: Roy Eldridge (tp); Kai Winding (tb); John LaPorta (cl); Lester Young, Warne Marsh (ts); Teddy Wilson (p); Billy Bauer (g); Eddie Safranski (b); Max Roach (dr); Terry Gibbs (vis); Billy Eckstine (vcl)

Great choice, Jeff - both for the music and the uniqueness of Pres and Warne recording together,

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OK - #12 is the 1953 Metronome All Stars with vocalist Billy Eckstine and, among others, Lester Young and Warne Marsh.

Full personnel: Roy Eldridge (tp); Kai Winding (tb); John LaPorta (cl); Lester Young, Warne Marsh (ts); Teddy Wilson (p); Billy Bauer (g); Eddie Safranski (b); Max Roach (dr); Terry Gibbs (vis); Billy Eckstine (vcl)

Great choice, Jeff - both for the music and the uniqueness of Pres and Warne recording together,

Right, of course. I have a weakness for the whole Metronome All Stars series; there was some great music produced, in spite of the dubious concept and strange mixtures of musicians. Among other reasons, I chose this one because Marsh's solo sums up his brilliance in 16 amazing measures.

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I'm guessing that #3 is by a Perry Bradford band. He wrote the tune and the vocal sounds like he. If it is Perry Bradford, I have to get this version. The band is magnificent. I know that Louis Armstrong recorded with Bradford. Is he the trumpeter? The version I have - August, 1925 on Columbia (reissued on Frog) - is good, but earthbound. This version positively soars.

Must get this one. Is it from the Timeless CD? Guess it's been reissued a number of times.

If this isn't Perry Bradford, please ignore all of the above.

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I'm guessing that #3 is by a Perry Bradford band. He wrote the tune and the vocal sounds like he. If it is Perry Bradford, I have to get this version. The band is magnificent. I know that Louis Armstrong recorded with Bradford. Is he the trumpeter? The version I have - August, 1925 on Columbia (reissued on Frog) - is good, but earthbound. This version positively soars.

Must get this one. Is it from the Timeless CD? Guess it's been reissued a number of times.

If this isn't Perry Bradford, please ignore all of the above.

Another point for Paul. It is indeed a Perry Bradford group with a great lineup, including young Louis Armstrong. I included this because this fabulous Satchmo solo deserves to be better known than it is.

If nobody else provides more info on this one, I'll give you all the details at the end of the month.

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OK, just the first half for me right now. More later. I see that Paul already nailed 3, and I'd have been disappointed if he hadn't.

1. The gutsy banjo tone is beautiful. A lovely rag, a little out of tune, but who cares when it’s cooking like this? The gentle rubatos at the ends of sections are instructive. Gotta guess Vess Ossman or Fred Van Eps, because they’re the only recorded banjo players from the period I can think of... No idea what the rag is.

2 Enter the drum corps! A fine illustration of why the percussion on early jazz records is so muted. The band isn’t swinging yet, but it might be in another decade or so. The drums seem rather military. Ever hear the high-pressure Victor acoustic recording of “Maple Leaf Rag” by the Marine Band? Got no guess, but I enjoyed it.

3. Wow, a nice transfer of a side I’ve always loved! My only copy is a heavily echoed LP. In the context of this BFT, you become aware all over again of why that trumpet player really matters. Good move, Jeff!

4 It’s track 1 here, among many other releases. I love the multi-sectional quality of the piece, something that would be downplayed in jazz from the ‘40s onward. I wonder, was it composed as an elaborate framework for blues choruses, or were the blues choruses inserted because no one could quickly think of anything to blow on the first part's changes? Never mind, it's still great.

5 You sly dog! I’d thought that if I ever put together a BFT, I’d use a track from this session. It’s track 12 here. But I was going to use “Cherokee” instead of “My Melancholy Baby.”

I love the music from this moment, when all these styles were co-existing peacefully. Nobody told these guys they weren’t supposed to play together, so they did, and it really worked.

Personal story: This was one of the first jazz 78s I ever owned (got it in the 1980s, mind you). I’d been listening to and collecting jazz for only a few months. If the Very Famous Bebop Trumpet Player hadn’t been credited on the label, I would have passed this by entirely, and I would have missed so much! This record played with my mind then, and I wish that more records in the intervening decades had played with my mind in the same genre-stretching way.

6 OK, you broke my streak here. I assume this is a paraphrase on the Miles Ahead opener? It didn’t come before Miles Ahead? I await the reveal of this one...

7 An Ornettish head that makes me flash back to Track 2 for a second – exactly the reaction you wanted? It ain’t Ornette, but some friends and followers of his. With a little more time I might be able to nail down the ID, but not today.

I'm having lots of fun with this, Jeff.

Edited by Spontooneous
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OK, just the first half for me right now. More later. I see that Paul already nailed 3, and I'd have been disappointed if he hadn't.

1. The gutsy banjo tone is beautiful. A lovely rag, a little out of tune, but who cares when it’s cooking like this? The gentle rubatos at the ends of sections are instructive. Gotta guess Vess Ossman or Fred Van Eps, because they’re the only recorded banjo players from the period I can think of... No idea what the rag is.

I'm glad you liked this. It is Vess Ossman and some friends. I didn't much think anyone would identify the rag, but there's an aspect of it I thought might spark some recognition.... More later.

2 Enter the drum corps! A fine illustration of why the percussion on early jazz records is so muted. The band isn’t swinging yet, but it might be in another decade or so. The drums seem rather military. Ever hear the high-pressure Victor acoustic recording of “Maple Leaf Rag” by the Marine Band? Got no guess, but I enjoyed it.

Don't know that Marine Band recording, but I'm kind of a fan of early ragtime recordings by military bands - there were a lot of them.

3. Wow, a nice transfer of a side I’ve always loved! My only copy is a heavily echoed LP. In the context of this BFT, you become aware all over again of why that trumpet player really matters. Good move, Jeff!

I was hoping Louis would jump out on this track.

4 It’s track 1 here, among many other releases. I love the multi-sectional quality of the piece, something that would be downplayed in jazz from the ‘40s onward. I wonder, was it composed as an elaborate framework for blues choruses, or were the blues choruses inserted because no one could quickly think of anything to blow on the first part's changes? Never mind, it's still great.

Bingo. I thought this one might be identified pretty quickly. I consider it one of Ellington's early (late early period? early middle period?) masterpieces. I'll elaborate more later.

5 You sly dog! I’d thought that if I ever put together a BFT, I’d use a track from this session. It’s track 12 here. But I was going to use “Cherokee” instead of “My Melancholy Baby.”

I love the music from this moment, when all these styles were co-existing peacefully. Nobody told these guys they weren’t supposed to play together, so they did, and it really worked.

Personal story: This was one of the first jazz 78s I ever owned (got it in the 1980s, mind you). I’d been listening to and collecting jazz for only a few months. If the Very Famous Bebop Trumpet Player hadn’t been credited on the label, I would have passed this by entirely, and I would have missed so much! This record played with my mind then, and I wish that more records in the intervening decades had played with my mind in the same genre-stretching way.

I love this session and this moment in history, too. Feel free to spill all the beans about the personnel.

6 OK, you broke my streak here. I assume this is a paraphrase on the Miles Ahead opener? It didn’t come before Miles Ahead? I await the reveal of this one...

It was recorded earlier than Miles Ahead. Miles and Gil may or may not have been aware of it.

7 An Ornettish head that makes me flash back to Track 2 for a second – exactly the reaction you wanted? It ain’t Ornette, but some friends and followers of his. With a little more time I might be able to nail down the ID, but not today.

I actually wasn't thinking about the connections between this piece and track 2, but I know what you mean. You're right about who it isn't.

I'm having lots of fun with this, Jeff.

I'm glad. I had a lot of fun putting it together.

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Track 1: This sounds like the kind of thing John Fahey aped so well back in the 60’s. On some of his records, he made the songs sound like they were recordings of old blues 78’s. I’m pretty sure this isn’t one of them, but I love it nonetheless!

Track 2: Baby Dodds. (Oh, like I would know this! Hahahahaha!) Gotta love it! Maybe I need to re-think my whole attitude towards pre-1930 music.

Tracks 3 thru 6 were all very enjoyable, although I couldn’t name a one for ya.

Track 7 was painful. Couldn’t make it through the first two minutes, let alone all eleven!!!

Track 8 was cool. I’m gonna guess Stanley Clarke on the bass, but that’s all I’m even remotely comfortable guessing!

I’m sorry to say the rest of it did nothing for me. But those first few tracks sure were nice!

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Just starting to get into the disc. One listen all the way through so far. No idea who track one is (I think it's two banjo's or a banjo and guitar) but I think it's interesting that this pre 1910 recording contains one strain that we later hear as "I Thought I Heard Buddy Bolden Say" from Jelly Roll.

The trumpet on track three DID standout - and I thought Louis and rejected the thought because I thought I knew all Louis' records. I thought maybe Jabbo. So it's Louis! Gotta get some Perry Bradford.

Edited by Harold_Z
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Track 1: This sounds like the kind of thing John Fahey aped so well back in the 60’s. On some of his records, he made the songs sound like they were recordings of old blues 78’s. I’m pretty sure this isn’t one of them, but I love it nonetheless!

Glad you liked it. It's a real-deal pre-1910 recording.

Track 2: Baby Dodds. (Oh, like I would know this! Hahahahaha!) Gotta love it! Maybe I need to re-think my whole attitude towards pre-1930 music.

I know you weren't being serious, but no - almost 10 years before Dodds' first recording.

Tracks 3 thru 6 were all very enjoyable, although I couldn’t name a one for ya.

Track 7 was painful. Couldn’t make it through the first two minutes, let alone all eleven!!!

Yeah, I knew that one would be a tough slog for those not into 1960s free jazz.

Track 8 was cool. I’m gonna guess Stanley Clarke on the bass, but that’s all I’m even remotely comfortable guessing!

A point for Big Al! It is indeed Stanley Clarke on bass. There are some other great players on this pretty obscure recording.

I’m sorry to say the rest of it did nothing for me. But those first few tracks sure were nice!

Well, I knew my 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s decade selections were on the "heavy" side, but be sure to check out tracks 12-14, the "bonus" tracks, if you haven't already done so - you might like them a little more. Paul has already identified track 12.

Thanks for listening.

Edited by jeffcrom
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Just starting to get into the disc. One listen all the way through so far. No idea who track one is (I think it's two banjo's or a banjo and guitar) but I think it's interesting that this pre 1910 recording contains one strain that we later hear as "I Thought I Heard Buddy Bolden Say" from Jelly Roll.

And a point for Harold! This rag, recorded around the time Buddy Bolden was arrested and committed, uses the "Funky Butt," "Buddy Bolden's Blues" melody for one of its strains. This was apparently a folk melody that was known up and down the lower Mississippi in the first decade of the 20th century. Bolden adopted it and added his own lyrics.

I've got to brag on my non-musical wife. When I was listening to the final lineup of this blindfold test, she said, "Oh, Buddy Bolden's Blues." She's lived with me too long.

The instrumentation is kind of hard to distinguish with the crude recording techniques, but it's banjo, mandolin, and harp guitar.

The trumpet on track three DID standout - and I thought Louis and rejected the thought because I thought I knew all Louis' records. I thought maybe Jabbo. So it's Louis! Gotta get some Perry Bradford.

Yeah, that's a great recording.

Looking forward to your comments on the rest.

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Track 8 was cool. I’m gonna guess Stanley Clarke on the bass, but that’s all I’m even remotely comfortable guessing!

A point for Big Al! It is indeed Stanley Clarke on bass. There are some other great players on this pretty obscure recording.

NO WAY!!! I GOT ONE RIGHT???!?!?! WOOOO HOOOOO!!!!!!! YAY ME!!! YEEAHAHHHHHH!!!!!

:g

I’m sorry to say the rest of it did nothing for me. But those first few tracks sure were nice!

Well, I knew my 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s decade selections were on the "heavy" side, but be sure to check out tracks 12-14, the "bonus" tracks, if you haven't already done so - you might like them a little more. Paul has already identified track 12.

Thanks for listening.

Will definitely give those last three a spin. Getting one right has put me in a GREAT mood!!! :D

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This is a fascinating collection of music, and I am enjoying it a lot. As usual, I cannot provide any positive identification of any of the tracks. I can't wait for the Reveal, because I am definitely going to buy some of these albums.

Track 10 begins with what sounds like the opening theme of Sun Ra's "El Is A Sound of Joy". I strain to hear Sun Ra in this track. It is possible but not certain. I am not able to locate a Sun Ra recording with this instrumentation, however. There are a great many Sun Ra recordings, to be sure.

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This is a fascinating collection of music, and I am enjoying it a lot. As usual, I cannot provide any positive identification of any of the tracks. I can't wait for the Reveal, because I am definitely going to buy some of these albums.

Track 10 begins with what sounds like the opening theme of Sun Ra's "El Is A Sound of Joy". I strain to hear Sun Ra in this track. It is possible but not certain. I am not able to locate a Sun Ra recording with this instrumentation, however. There are a great many Sun Ra recordings, to be sure.

Glad you're enjoying the music.

Although I kind of feel like I'm breaking an Organissimo BFT rule by not including any Django Reinhardt or Sun Ra :), this is a Django- and Ra-free blindfold test.

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This is a fascinating collection of music, and I am enjoying it a lot. As usual, I cannot provide any positive identification of any of the tracks. I can't wait for the Reveal, because I am definitely going to buy some of these albums.

Track 10 begins with what sounds like the opening theme of Sun Ra's "El Is A Sound of Joy". I strain to hear Sun Ra in this track. It is possible but not certain. I am not able to locate a Sun Ra recording with this instrumentation, however. There are a great many Sun Ra recordings, to be sure.

Glad you're enjoying the music.

Although I kind of feel like I'm breaking an Organissimo BFT rule by not including any Django Reinhardt or Sun Ra :), this is a Django- and Ra-free blindfold test.

Interesting how on one selection, the theme from the opening cut from "Miles Ahead" is heard, and on this cut, the theme of "El Is a Sound of Joy" is at least alluded to. You are getting us into some fascinating territory.

Edited by Hot Ptah
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OK - Here goes:

I only knew a couple of the tracks - #'s 3 & 12. On everything else I just listened and tried to enjoy some new music. In a few cases I've made guesses. Haven't looked at anyone else's posts, so I look forward to finding some things out once I post this.

#1 - Obviously an early banjo player. No idea who, but the playing reminded me of some of Henry Thomas' banjo sides which were recorded in the 1920's, years after this recording, I imagine. But there are some shared traditions there.

#2 - Interesting to hear an early band with pop and marching band influences.

#3 - Perry Bradford backed by some great musicians.

#4 - No idea - my big band listening is VERY sketchy, but a very fine, very tight band. I liked the arrangement & the way that the solos flowed out of and into the arrangement. I'll buy this one when I found out who it is.

#5 - Didn't grab me all that much. Liked some of the trumpet solo & some of the guitarist's playing - sounded as if they were trying to come to grips with bop playing.

#6 - The opening reminded me of John Carisi's music on the Into the Hot album. I've never heard any other Carisi, so it's probably not he, just a similarity in my head. Liked the opening better than what followed. Still - interesting stuff.

#7 - No idea. The tune and the opening sax solo came out of Ornette. Not a bad thing, even if it was a bit derivative - there was some passion there. What followed didn't interest me as much.

#8 - This one drove me crazy. The trumpeter sounds so familiar. I kept thinking Leo Smith, but probably not. The trumpeter was who I kept coming back to.

#9 - Listened to it once. Have no desire to hear it again. I'm sure that some of that comes from being born at an earlier time and from being grounded in earlier traditions.

#10 - Liked what the trombonist was playing. THe saxophonist sounded somewhat familiar, but for me the trombonist was the main musician.

11 - Too much stuff going on. I would have liked to have listened to the soloist without having to deal with everything else. Sounded messy to me.

12 - Billy Eckstine & the rest of the Metronome All Stars

13 - "My Ship", I believe - I'm not great with names of tunes. When the tenor player came in, it woke me up - a good thing - almost scared me - also a good thing. Is it Von Freeman?

14 - Seemed as if the drummer was the leader, & it sounded like a 50's bop record. Didn't know who it was & I don't have a discography that lists tunes, but I checked some drummers' dates & came up with Charlie Persip's Bethlehem record. Never bought it when it was around because I figured it was another hard bop date that I didn't need. If this one is that, I made a mistake.

I've stayed away from blindfold tests for awhile, partly because I hate making myself crazy trying to identify things - I can't seem to just enjoy the music for what it is - it always becomes a contest - and partly because blindfold tests make me realize how bad my listening habits are. I hope there's nothing on this one that I have in my collection and couldn't identify.

I knew that Jeff would come up with some interesting listening, and he did. And there are 2 or 3 things here that I want to add to my collection. Thanks, Jeff.

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OK - Here goes:

I only knew a couple of the tracks - #'s 3 & 12. On everything else I just listened and tried to enjoy some new music. In a few cases I've made guesses. Haven't looked at anyone else's posts, so I look forward to finding some things out once I post this.

#1 - Obviously an early banjo player. No idea who, but the playing reminded me of some of Henry Thomas' banjo sides which were recorded in the 1920's, years after this recording, I imagine. But there are some shared traditions there.

Between Spontooneous and Harold Z, some of the details of this track have been revealed. I love Henry Thomas' music, by the way.

#2 - Interesting to hear an early band with pop and marching band influences.

#3 - Perry Bradford backed by some great musicians.

Nice work figuring this out.

#4 - No idea - my big band listening is VERY sketchy, but a very fine, very tight band. I liked the arrangement & the way that the solos flowed out of and into the arrangement. I'll buy this one when I found out who it is.

This has been identified by Spontooneous. It's one of my favorite Ellington pieces from this era.

#5 - Didn't grab me all that much. Liked some of the trumpet solo & some of the guitarist's playing - sounded as if they were trying to come to grips with bop playing.

Spontooneous knows what this is, but hasn't spilled all the beans. You might be surprised when you learn the identity of the trumpet player.

#6 - The opening reminded me of John Carisi's music on the Into the Hot album. I've never heard any other Carisi, so it's probably not he, just a similarity in my head. Liked the opening better than what followed. Still - interesting stuff.

You've got good ears. It's John Carisi. Let's see if anyone else can provide more details.

#7 - No idea. The tune and the opening sax solo came out of Ornette. Not a bad thing, even if it was a bit derivative - there was some passion there. What followed didn't interest me as much.

I'll be interested to see if anyone knows who this is. I don't think it's a very well-known recording. I also hope that someone likes it as much as I do, but so far it doesn't seem that way.

#8 - This one drove me crazy. The trumpeter sounds so familiar. I kept thinking Leo Smith, but probably not. The trumpeter was who I kept coming back to.

The trumpeter is fairly obscure (not Leo Smith), but some of the other players are quite well-known. Big Al has identified Stanley Clarke on bass.

#9 - Listened to it once. Have no desire to hear it again. I'm sure that some of that comes from being born at an earlier time and from being grounded in earlier traditions.

This track never fails to move me. It seems to be moving everyone else out of the room. C'est la vie....

#10 - Liked what the trombonist was playing. THe saxophonist sounded somewhat familiar, but for me the trombonist was the main musician.

Again, good ears. The trombonist wrote the piece. He's not the bandleader, though.

11 - Too much stuff going on. I would have liked to have listened to the soloist without having to deal with everything else. Sounded messy to me.

There's a lot going on, but I like it.

12 - Billy Eckstine & the rest of the Metronome All Stars

13 - "My Ship", I believe - I'm not great with names of tunes. When the tenor player came in, it woke me up - a good thing - almost scared me - also a good thing. Is it Von Freeman?

Chalk up another one for Paul. It's "My Ship," included mostly because of the incredible 16 bars by Von Freeman. Anyone know what this is from?

14 - Seemed as if the drummer was the leader, & it sounded like a 50's bop record. Didn't know who it was & I don't have a discography that lists tunes, but I checked some drummers' dates & came up with Charlie Persip's Bethlehem record. Never bought it when it was around because I figured it was another hard bop date that I didn't need. If this one is that, I made a mistake.

Again, nicely done - it's from Charlie Persip and the Jazz Statesmen on Bethlehem. It's an excellent hard-bop album to be so little known. I won't reveal any more right now - someone might know more details.

I've stayed away from blindfold tests for awhile, partly because I hate making myself crazy trying to identify things - I can't seem to just enjoy the music for what it is - it always becomes a contest - and partly because blindfold tests make me realize how bad my listening habits are. I hope there's nothing on this one that I have in my collection and couldn't identify.

I knew that Jeff would come up with some interesting listening, and he did. And there are 2 or 3 things here that I want to add to my collection. Thanks, Jeff.

Thank you, Paul. I enjoyed reading your comments.

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#7 Robin Kenyatta - "You Know How We Do" from Until (Rudd - trombone; Mike Lawrence - trumpet; Horacee Arnold - drums; Lewis Worrell & Don Moore - bass; Archie Lee - perc.)

I've always liked the tune & recognized it immediately from the theme!

Carisi is a good guess from #6, I was trying to place it. Don't know personnel yet - have to give more listens.

I'm up through 7 right now and am enjoying it very much!

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Track 8 reminded me a little of some of Hannibal's playing, less bright however. I can't recall him and Clarke recording together, though, save for with Pharoah.

The Von track was deep; languid, but deep. My guess is it's something off of Birth Sign, which I don't own but would like to.

I like #10 but I can't for the life of me figure out who the trombonist is. First pass had me thinking maybe Marty Cook, but I don't think it's him.

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