vijay iyer

[alocispepraluger102]

i am now listening to vijay iyer perform bernstein's somewhere.

god, i hope that he has performed a great number of standards.

the quickness of his mind, his technique, and taste puts him into VERY rare territory.

[AllenLowe]

Vijay is a great pianist, I think, though I recently had an embarassing experience with thim (has to do with living up in Maine for so long which has fogged my brain and lowered my IQ by 14-17 points) -

I was introduced to him at the Robin Kelley reading in NYC, by Lewis Porter, and weirdly enough I just blanked out completely on who he was or that he was a well-known pianist.

he was clearly a little taken aback, though when I apologized later on and explained that I'd had a Maine-botomy he appeared to understand.

Smart guy, good player. I thought about trying to get him for my blues project.

[alocispepraluger102]

Vijay is a great pianist, I think, though I recently had an embarassing experience with thim (has to do with living up in Maine for so long which has fogged my brain and lowered my IQ by 14-17 points) -

I was introduced to him at the Robin Kelley reading in NYC, by Lewis Porter, and weirdly enough I just blanked out completely on who he was or that he was a well-known pianist.

he was clearly a little taken aback, though when I apologized later on and explained that I'd had a Maine-botomy he appeared to understand.

Smart guy, good player. I thought about trying to get him for my blues project.

we wish your blues project well.

[clifford_thornton]

I like him with Wadada; haven't heard much else. Critics' darling!

[Larry Kart]

As fate would have it, yesterday I had this email exchange about Iyer with a musician friend (who shall be nameless here):

My friend:

'I've just listened to Vijay Iyer's HISTORICITY, which recently has been

getting raves galore.  I've heard items by Iyer on the radio, and

interviews with him as well, but this is the first CD of his I've

heard.  it was, as I feared beforehand, an oppressive experience.

'It's not that Iyer and his sidemen (bassist Stephen Crump, drummer

Marcus Gilmore) are bad musicians;  they're actually very good

players.  And iyer as a pianist is far better than, say, Matthew

Shipp.  But there's an oppressive faux-intellectualism in Iyer that

really bugs me--as in "I'm the smartest guy in the room and I want

you to know it!"

'The music of pianists like Bill Evans and Herbie Nichols is

"intellectual," too, in very different ways, but theirs is a very

unself-conscious kind;  it's just who they were.  With Iyer, it's in

your face virtually all the time--not only in his music, but in his

liner notes and even in the long list of people he thanks.  He's

really out to impress you.  Not unlike Oscar Peterson and his endless

displays of chops, but even Peterson relaxed and played ballads that

showed you another (tender)  side of him.  When Iyer plays

Bernstein's "Somewhere," there's such an emotional disconnect from

the piece that you want to slap him.

'Is it just me, or does this ring true for you as well?'

Me:

'I've been turned off by Iyer since the first time I heard him, though perhaps that should be, I've never been turned on by him, because my initial "this is not for me" experiences have led to little further investigation.

'Anyhow, my initial response to Iyer was the same as yours -- "oppressive," but perhaps with a slightly different slant. The faux-intellectualism I vaguely recall, but what really put me off were the busy up-front "odd" meters -- not primarily because of their air of exotica (such metrical activity is after all part of Iyer's cultural background, though IIRC he does shove it in one's face more than a little, in an extramusical socio-political manner), but because it's been my experience that a lot of upfront "odd-meter" activity in jazz is more or less a straightjacket in musical terms. Two obvious qualifications would be Don Ellis, because Ellis was Ellis, and because aside from his own solo work, the main thing there was the writing and the ensemble; and Brubeck up to a point, because Paul Desmond was his own sweet inventive self no matter what.

'Another two, and this might be more to the point, would be the somewhat related figures of Nichols and Hasaan Ibn Ali. Admiring Nichols less than I do, Martin Williams I think pointed out that Nichols didn't really improvise in what was then the normal modern jazz manner but instead essentially stated and restated the initial premises of his pieces with decorations ("decorations" being a near-insult in Martin's scheme of things), a la such Stride composer-players as Luckey Roberts and Willie The Lion Smith. Well, yes, but the overall "orchestration" of Nichol's pieces was typically both unique and beautifully balanced -- rhythm, harmony, and melody all  meaningfully interactive, quite comprehensible and handsomely varied in mood, even charming at times -- and the pieces, perhaps above all,  were designed to make room for vigorous interaction from the likes of Max Roach and Art Blakey. Likewise with Hasaan, though the flavor of his music is a bit more driven and narrow and might not wear as well as Nichols' does if we had a lot more of it than we do, though its drivenness and arguable narrowness is inseperable from why it's of value.

'I'll listen again to Iyer, but I just don't get much sense that there's much going on past the upfront surface metrical complexities and related foreground "patterning." I mean, there they are, to the degree that a listener of my background and ear can comprehend them, and then what? The actual performances. for me, don't seem to really go anywhere -- or they go to "energy" places I've been to many times before over the years, except that this time the seasoning is a bit different. 

'BTW, my son and some of his friends were very taken with Iyer and his sometime altoist associate Rudresh Mahanthappa, at least early on, because the music of their own band of the time fell into the so-called Math Rock bag -- lots of meters that no one this side of a grad student could count. But in their music, all other things being equal (or, I suppose one should say, unequal), these odd-meter blizzards often worked out just fine because, as in so much rock of many sorts, the "surface" was, and was pretty much  meant to be, the whole. Interaction between the typically overwhelming surface and other musical factors, if any, was appropriately fairly limited and formulaic -- block choral effects, if you will, rather than a situation where the actions and personality of an individual performer would be of interest. On the other hand, my son's interest in Iyer might have been in part because he always knew what the meters were right off and could hold that knowledge over my head.

'In  any case, I'll listen again to what  Iyer I have, though what I have does date from a few years back, and say more if I have different thoughts.'

P.S. A vagrant thought I had last night. Asked about Janacek's music in one of his "conversation" books, Stravinsky said IIRC that it was "like eating a long and very stringy Czech noodle." I don't agree about Janacek, but if there are any noodle-like dishes in any Indian cuisine, that's how Iyer's music hits me.

[JETman]

"I'm the smartest guy in the room and I want you to know it!"

As someone who has lived in the melting pot called New York all of my life, I can safely say that the above feeling is also part of his culture.

Allen -- didn't you ever wonder why Iyer thought he had the right to be offended that you didn't realize who he was?

[alocispepraluger102]

the mental quickness certainly impressed me. some mental flash has depth and meaning; much does not.

i clearly need to investigate more. thanks to all for the thoughtful, knowledgeable comments.

[AllenLowe]

"didn't you ever wonder why Iyer thought he had the right to be offended that you didn't realize who he was? "

well, he was perfectly nice about it - I just thought he had a sense that he was a known player, and that I didn't know him. But, as I said, there was little ego about it, he just thought I was an idiot.

well, maybe not really. The things is, he looked familiar (and I remembered afterwards that he had appeared in a cover Downbeat story along with Matt Shipp) but it was just one of those things. I try to keep up but I'm so damn busy, and he just was not right there in my consciousness. But it really was ok; I was definitely not up to snuff, as they say.

as for Larry's comments, I would tend to agree, but I think there is something there that could be tapped into with some effort (not sure if you've listened to Shipp, by the way, Larry, but start with the two solo cuts he did on my last CD and you'll hear how much there is to him).

and by the way, I'm the smartest guy in the room. As long as I'm the only one in the room.

Edited January 11, 2010 by AllenLowe

[papsrus]

Saw Iyer and Mahanthappa a few years ago and found them very engaging.

I have nothing on hand by either gentleman now though.

[thedwork]

"I'm the smartest guy in the room and I want you to know it!"

As someone who has lived in the melting pot called New York all of my life, I can safely say that the above feeling is also part of his culture.

not to derail the thread, but if i'm gonna read some of these threads it's not possible for me to see something like this and not comment. that seems like a very flatly racist comment. what the fuck? all indian people act and feel arrogantly superior to everyone else? it's part of their culture? wow...

i haven't heard his music yet so i can't comment there...

[jlhoots]

I'm beginning to think that sometimes I'm in the wrong room.

Coincidentally I was just listening to Historicity & thought it was just fine.

The reference to Oscar Peterson earlier in the thread eludes me.

I'm no critic or writer but have enjoyed much of what I've heard of Iyer's work.

[kh1958]

Same here; I enjoy Vijay Iyer alot. When I saw him live by chance (never having heard of him before), I was very much taken by his playing (and Rudresh Mahanthappa) immediately.

But then again, I never use the word "faux" in a sentence.

"I'm the smartest guy in the room and I want you to know it!"

As someone who has lived in the melting pot called New York all of my life, I can safely say that the above feeling is also part of his culture.

not to derail the thread, but if i'm gonna read some of these threads it's not possible for me to see something like this and not comment. that seems like a very flatly racist comment. what the fuck? all indian people act and feel arrogantly superior to everyone else? it's part of their culture? wow...

i haven't heard his music yet so i can't comment there...

I thought the reference was to New Yorkers.

[JETman]

"I'm the smartest guy in the room and I want you to know it!"

As someone who has lived in the melting pot called New York all of my life, I can safely say that the above feeling is also part of his culture.

not to derail the thread, but if i'm gonna read some of these threads it's not possible for me to see something like this and not comment. that seems like a very flatly racist comment. what the fuck? all indian people act and feel arrogantly superior to everyone else? it's part of their culture? wow...

i haven't heard his music yet so i can't comment there...

Two questions spring to mind:

1- Why are you reading so much into what I said?

2- How do you know I'M not Indian?

[thedwork]

I thought the reference was to New Yorkers.

I don’t see how it could be read that way. Unless you thought “his culture” was a typo which was supposed to read “this culture.” That makes sense but whoa… that would be quite a mindboggling coincidence of context, meaning, and accidental typing. I mean, he/she wrote this immediately following: "Allen -- didn't you ever wonder why Iyer thought he had the right to be offended that you didn't realize who he was?" Again, I don't really see how you could read that comment as being about New Yorkers. Or maybe you were making a joke? Whatever I guess…

"I'm the smartest guy in the room and I want you to know it!"

As someone who has lived in the melting pot called New York all of my life, I can safely say that the above feeling is also part of his culture.

not to derail the thread, but if i'm gonna read some of these threads it's not possible for me to see something like this and not comment. that seems like a very flatly racist comment. what the fuck? all indian people act and feel arrogantly superior to everyone else? it's part of their culture? wow...

i haven't heard his music yet so i can't comment there...

Two questions spring to mind:

1- Why are you reading so much into what I said?

2- How do you know I'M not Indian?

why am i reading so much into what you wrote? well, again, i don't think i'm 'reading into it' at all. like i said before, it seems flatly racist on its face. no reading into it. just reading.

how do i know you're not indian? i don't.

[B. Clugston]

"I'm the smartest guy in the room and I want you to know it!"

As someone who has lived in the melting pot called New York all of my life, I can safely say that the above feeling is also part of his culture.

not to derail the thread, but if i'm gonna read some of these threads it's not possible for me to see something like this and not comment. that seems like a very flatly racist comment. what the fuck? all indian people act and feel arrogantly superior to everyone else? it's part of their culture? wow...

i haven't heard his music yet so i can't comment there...

I read this as "his culture" = New York culture.

[papsrus]

I read this as "his culture" = New York culture.

Me too.

Iyer was born and raised in Rochester.

[jeffcrom]

I read it as "New York culture," too. Didn't occur to me that it could mean anything else.

[thedwork]

my bad guys. i guess my flu is even worse than i thought. sincere apologies. i guess all 'new yorkers' are smug asses then? maybe that's why i got the hell outta there...

[clifford_thornton]

Same here. Though not all NYers are "lookit mee" types.

[JETman]

my bad guys. i guess my flu is even worse than i thought. sincere apologies. i guess all 'new yorkers' are smug asses then? maybe that's why i got the hell outta there...

You're one of the lucky ones. I've been trying to escape -- like Kurt Russell -- for a very long time. Work and kids are keeping me here for now.

[AllenLowe]

also, and not so incidentally, Indians are Aryan. Look it up.

[Alexander Hawkins]

I'm not really familiar with Iyer's stuff as a leader, but I do really enjoy him in tandem with Craig Taborn in Roscoe Mitchell's 'Note Factory'. He's also pretty spectacular IMHO in Wadada Leo Smith's 'Golden Quartet' - check out the awesome DVD of a performance at the Banlieues Bleues festival for some evidence of this...

To cross reference another thread somewhere, there's a nice - really quite short - segment on this week's BBC Radio 3 'Jazz Line-Up' where he's interviewed by Kevin LeGendre - a nice conversation for sure, and well worth the listen!

[thedwork]

You're one of the lucky ones. I've been trying to escape -- like Kurt Russell -- for a very long time. Work and kids are keeping me here for now.

work and kids? i can't think of any reasons that would trump the combination of those two for staying anywhere in the world. good for you.

I do really enjoy him in tandem with Craig Taborn in Roscoe Mitchell's 'Note Factory'. He's also pretty spectacular IMHO in Wadada Leo Smith's 'Golden Quartet'

like i said, i haven't checked out iyer's music at all yet. but if he's gigging and recording w/ wadada leo smith and roscoe mitchell, there's gotta be something serious going on with his music.

[Chuck Nessa]

Really don't want to read the disagreements above (I started and gave up). I have at least one cd and have heard him "live" a few times. He seemed ok, but I enjoyed his frequent partner Rudresh more.

Can anyone recommend a "great" recording by him?

[alocispepraluger102]

many organissimo posters, most notably clementine, have expressed very strong, often brutal, often very original well-thought opinions,\ about music, musicians, and other things. i most always found a solid kernel of truth and great sincerity in what he was trying to say.

i consider the comments made in this thread no less.