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A DEEP OLIVE BRANCH TO CHRISTIERN


Guest DEEP (GET ME OUT OF MY SKULL)

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...Now that's a SEGUE !!  :g  :g  :g  :g

NO KIDDING. And, it hardly hurt at all!!!

Reminds me of conversations after I've had a couple of glasses of wine. You're all in my living room and that's what happens when friends are just sittin' around, talking.

Can't help smiling...........

Edited by patricia
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patricia,

:tup  :tup  :tup

Well, Clint, it's easy to talk of being CONQUERERS but, after hundreds and hundreds of wars, over hundreds and hundreds of years, war has not brought peace. On the contrary. War sets nations, and the people of those nations against each other, for no other reason than a handful's lust for power and their greed for more and more. Those who stand to gain, at least in these modern times, don't give their lives. They make speeches, beautifully set up, choreographed and photographed. Those who declare that war will be waged, do not risk having to be replaced in their family circle with a precisely folded flag and a medal.

The logic of killing thousands of human beings, whether they are young men and women who volunteered to be soldiers for a cause even they didn't understand, or civilians, who just wanted to live their lives and raise their families, escapes me.

Just how does bombing and killing and gaining more political power in the world, at such a high price in human suffering and death, bring peace?? History has taught us little, unless you count the invention of more sophistocated and terrible ways to kill and destroy.

Progress?? Yeah, right.

I find it interesting that the same people who claim to revere life, in fact call themselves "Pro Life" will, without a second thought, launch a war which they know will take the lives of thousands of innocent people and leave many more maimed and homeless.

Now, I'll step down from my soapbox........

Next............ :w

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Well, now back to musicians with nicknames.

My next one is "Baby" [Warren] Dodds, the younger brother of clarinettist Johnny Dodds.

Baby Dodds, played drums in Willie Hightower's band at sixteen, for ice creams.

His style was very showy, using every one of his drums. He was soon playing all over New Orleans and moved to Fate Marable's Streckfus orchestra.

By 1922 he had secured a place in King Oliver's great Creole Jazz Band and one has only to listen to Oliver's records to hear Dodds' groundbreaking talent.

Baby Dodds was apparently the bad young brother and after the financial problems that broke up Oliver's band left Dodds with no regular job, his older brother kept an eye on him, to Baby's chagrin. For the next twenty years Baby Dodds was around Chicago, playing occasionally and even driving a taxi to support himself.

Baby Dodds' career took off again in 1945 in New York. He joined Bunk Johnson's band, but his style was considered controversial. According to George Wettling, "the way he played drums behind the band was a solo in itself." This approach was disturbing to Johnson, as well as other musicians, including Lester Young, who preferred a discreet "tick", but it had a liberating effect in the modern and avant-garde jazz styles.

In 1947, on a Rudi Blesh show, Dodds became facinated by Max Roach's work and decided that he would work out a drum symphony for five or six drummers. This was an echo of Roach's own M'Boom percussion ensemble.

Baby Dodds had started drinking seriously as a sixteen-year-old, while playing for ice cream in New Orleans. His hard living escalated over the years and Jo Jones said of Dodds, "Physically, he's about 95. He did more living than three men."

Sadly, after a series of strokes, Baby Dodds died, at fifty-nine years old, in February of 1959.

Next............ :w

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Guest DEEP (GET ME OUT OF MY SKULL)

MAN has to eventually leave this planet. We can all sit around covering our private parts with fig leaves and preach love thy neighbor but if we just sit around and do that the human race is doomed.

Progress is our most important product and assholes like those fucking Sandchuckers are living in the sixteenth century. It breaks me up when all these Bush bashers like Newt Gingrich, start in on how we haven't constructed "one mile of road" in Afganistan. Why the fuck should we?...so the fucking camels have a super fucking highway?

DEEP

Edited by DEEP (GET ME OUT OF MY SKULL)
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MAN has to eventually leave this planet. We can all sit around covering our private parts with fig leaves and preach love thy neighbor but if we just sit around and do that the human race is doomed.

Progress is our most important product and assholes like the those fucking Sandchuckers are living in the sixteenth century. It breaks me up when all these Bush bashers like Newt Gingrich start in on how we haven't constructed "one mile of road" in Afganistan. Why the fuck should we?...so the fucking camels have a super fucking highway?

DEEP

I don't think there is much sand in Afghanistan. I think it's pretty mountainous.

Much as I think Newt Gingrich is a total twit, I would be interested in what freedom has accomplished, so far, for the Afghan people. I understand that there is a resurgence of the Taliban, women have reclaimed their head-to-toe robes and that the Canadian soldiers who are keeping the peace are finding that there is not that much peace to keep. As for how many miles of road have been built, that's a metaphor for post-war help. As long as there are still criminals and disgruntled warlords running around, it's unlikely much construction will take place.

Does anyone know what conditions in Afghanistan are now?? I understand that a record crop of poppies [their most profitable cash crop] was harvested this spring. The results of that, the processed commercial product have been shipped out, to us, as evidenced by the huge cargo apprehended by the coast guard a couple of weeks ago. Who knows how many other shipments got through.

Perhaps Gingrich was making reference to some of those news items.

I have never felt that I had to apologize for wanting a relatively peaceful world, in which countries can trade with each other and accomplish progressive inventions and innovations, without greed and a relentless lust for power compelling leaders to send their young men and women off to fight their wars.

I have never felt that not wanting to kill or to be killed for someone else's gain was the wrong way to think about life. I know I'm an idealist, but I don't know what else to be.

Someone said, years ago, "What if they gave a war and nobody came?"

I've often asked myself that question...

Edited by patricia
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Guest DEEP (GET ME OUT OF MY SKULL)

I wonder if the grieving families of the 3000 or so innocent victims of 911 share your sentiment. Somehow I HAVE *NOT* FORGOTTEN THAT DAY.

DEEP

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Guest DEEP (GET ME OUT OF MY SKULL)

And of course the politics of Mr Bush produce new terrorists every day.

And of course the politics of Bush have seen to it that we get hit by terrorists on a monthly basis.

What we really should have done is just swept 911 under the carpet.

After all, they didn't really mean it. Shit, everybody makes mistakes. Let's just forgive and forget and get on with our lives.

DEEP

Edited by DEEP (GET ME OUT OF MY SKULL)
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Guest DEEP (GET ME OUT OF MY SKULL)

There's where Bush's politics are failing. We should completely occupy the country like we did in Japan after WW II.

If Bush is anything...HE'S TOO SOFT!!

Too bad Harry Truman isn't still around to run for President.

DEEP

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There's where Bush's politics are failing. We should completely occupy the country like we did in Japan after WW II.

If Bush is anything...HE'S TOO SOFT!!

Too bad Harry Truman isn't still around to run for President.

DEEP

I suppose that's one way to prevail.

However, the U.S. DOES have WMD and I suspect that the reason they didn't follow Harry Truman's lead and not just drop two atom bombs on them, but obliterate Iraq and turn it into a parking lot, is that they have OIL. If they just had camels, sand and PEOPLE, Iraq would be a parking lot right now. It also occurs to me that if the neutron bomb [the one which kills all living things, but doesn't destroy the terrain, or the OIL] would have been the perfect solution, if humanitarianism is of no concern.

While I certainly don't disagree that Saddam Hussein was a boil on the buttocks of the world, he isn't the only despot on whose watch murders and atrocities occurred.

In the last decade, almost ten million Africans have been slaughtered by an ongoing, brutal civil war. If the U.S. were only concerned with humanitarianism, what prevented them from stopping that atrocity??

I HAVE NOT forgotten September 11, 2001, but revenge for that obscenity cannot go on until eternity. Also, revenge for that attack should have been directed, not at Iraq, but at Saudi Arabia, where ALL the terrorists, including Osama bin Laden originated. bin Laden is still at large and the Saudi Arabians are in no danger of being attacked.

What the hell. Why not bomb the entire Middle East into a parking lot? That would certainly speed up the development of alternate energy sources. What else does that area of the world have that we want?? Also, India and Pakistan are a bit of a problem, so, as long as the military might of the U.S. are in the neighbourhood....................

Edited by patricia
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Guest DEEP (GET ME OUT OF MY SKULL)

PATTY, You go girl.

Now you're finally starting to make sense. Those people are not fellow citizens of the planet.

That turning the other cheek shit is wearing pretty thin.

I only wish they'd show those planes crashing into the WTC on a 20 times a day basis. Inquiring minds (especially the young minds) NEED TO KNOW (and be reminded. I think that the Sandchucks are starting to get the picture that Bin Laden fucked with the wrong people. If they're smart they'll turn the fuckhead in to the U.S.....but as we all now...THEY'RE NOT VERY SMART !!

DEEP

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PATTY, You go girl.

Now you're finally starting to make sense. Those people are not fellow citizens of the planet.

That turning the other cheek shit is wearing pretty thin.

I only wish they'd show those planes crashing into the WTC on a 20 times a day basis. Inquiring minds (especially the young minds) NEED TO KNOW (and be reminded. I think that the Sandchucks are starting to get the picture that Bin Laden fucked with the wrong people. If they're smart they'll turn the fuckhead in to the U.S.....but as we all now...THEY'RE NOT VERY SMART !!

DEEP

My point, as you well know, was that the ONLY reason that the U.S. attacked Iraq was that that area of the world [including the surrounding areas] have OIL.

I suspect that if Iraq had actually had WMD and were a formidable adversary, they wouldn't have been attacked.

If you recall, when the U.S. attacked, the Iraqis knew it was coming, but retaliated with old Russian weapons and continue to launch "small" attacks, using guerilla tactics. Had they had the arsenal of WMD, still not found, if ever there was a time to use them in retaliation, that would have been the time.

Doesn't that make you wonder??

Also, small attacks, by guerilla factions, can and probably will continue, indefinately. Occupation would only work if the people want the occupiers there. Even though the people are happy as clams at high tide that Saddam Hussein is gone, they want their country back. They want to run their own affairs and benefit from controlling their own resources, OIL. What are the chances of that happening?

So, why not just short-sheet these people who are standing in the way of progress and flatten them all? If humanitarian concerns are not in the equation, why pretend they are??

Being the biggest, toughest, meanest dog in the world worked for years, during the Cold War. Russia didn't attack because they knew that if they did, the U.S. would have launched the WMD, permanently trained on their country. The Russians used the same rationale, with their WMD trained on the U.S. An uneasy peace resulted.

The reason that the U.S.'s developing and stockpiling every known WMD in existance was tolerated by the American people was that they were represented as DETERRENTS. Despite the asperations of the administration now in place, most American citizens don't support the idea of bombing all countries who MAY someday be a threat, as a pre-emptive measure.

Edited by patricia
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Guest DEEP (GET ME OUT OF MY SKULL)

I don't know how cold it is where you are but it's 15 below where I am (in the USA) and my heat bill for December was $316.00.

Now the fact of the matter is our country runs on oil. They got it, we need it.

We could just forget about it and go back to being farmers with horse and buggys.

If the economy of the USA failed how the fuck long do you think the do nothing, love-in Canucks would last??

The US is being very altruistic by letting the Sanchucks profit from their own resources. They're just too fucking stupid to even appreciate it.

DEEP

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I don't know how cold it is where you are but it's 15 below where I am (in the USA) and my heat bill for December was $316.00.

Now the fact of the matter is our country runs on oil. They got it, we need it.

We could just forget about it and go back to being farmers with horse and buggys.

If the economy of the USA failed how the fuck long do you think the do nothing, love-in Canucks would last??

The US is being very altruistic by letting the Sanchucks profit from their own resources. They're just too fucking stupid to even appreciate it.

DEEP

I'll let the insult pass. But, read your history. Canada is not, and never has been "do nothing". Considering that, despite being bigger than the continental U.S., we have a population of about 30 million, about the same as two of your largest cities, we're very supportive when the need is actually justified.

In fact, the Americans had the whole world's support, after Sept 11, including Canada, which sent troops to Afghanistan. Our guys are still there, getting killed by terrorists.

Iraq was not an imminent threat. The world community was not convinced that it was. There may very well be 60 countries "supporting" the U.S.'s invasion of Iraq, but how many had, or have troops on the ground?? It's easy to say, "you go and Godspeed, we're with you", to remain at the spoils of war table, than it is to actually refuse to send troops on a mission which doesn't pass the smell test and didn't have international support, with actual troops and financing, not just encouragement.

We, and every other country had the option of simply continuing our support of the big dog south of us, with troops and money. It took a certain amount of courage to say "no" to our neighbours to the south, when we were expected to fall in line. We were expected to send our enlisted men and women to be killed, as we did when we joined the attack on Afghanistan. Now that money is needed, the Bush administration has not refused to accept our 300 million dollars, for help in the reconstruction.

We are paying a huge economic price for making that choice and there are those who feel that we should have paid for favourable status with the U.S. with our children's lives. Your President as much as said that. The blood of your young men and women are paying for the means to your progress, not to mention the many more lives sacrificed by innocent Iraqis.

Well, if every American can continue to use up the fossel fuels, then I guess it will be worth it. What do I know??

Edited by patricia
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"Now the fact of the matter is our country runs on oil. They got it, we need it."

  • True, but have Bush and the other morons in his crime gang ever considered the fact that oil can be bought--one does not need to invade a country and kill thousands of innocents (including US military). There is no justification for that.

We could just forget about it and go back to being farmers with horse and buggys.

  • IMO, that certainly beats doing the Hitler thing!

Edited by Christiern
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Guest DEEP (GET ME OUT OF MY SKULL)

  • IMO, that certainly beats doing the Hitler thing!

How the fuck long do think it would be before your upper West side apartment building would be owned by a Chinaman, or a North Korean, or a Russian, or a Canuck, or a German, or a Frenchman (strike that...they are in capable of doing ANYTHING aggressive), or anybody else with any power?

It's really too bad we waged war on Germany and Japan in 1941. They didn't really mean any harm.

I'll tell you this...BUSH will be the President one year from today despite all the weeds & seedser liberals. Dean is sickening. He has defintely forgot about 911.

DEEP

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  • IMO, that certainly beats doing the Hitler thing!


How the fuck long do think it would be before your upper West side apartment building would be owned by a Chinaman, or a North Korean, or a Russian, or a Canuck, or a German, or a Frenchman (strike that...they are in capable of doing ANYTHING aggressive), or anybody else with any power?

It's really too bad we waged war on Germany and Japan in 1941. They didn't really mean any harm.

I'll tell you this...BUSH will be the President one year from today despite all the weeds & seedser liberals. Dean is sickening. He has defintely forgot about 911.

DEEP

But, the war against Germany started in 1939, not 1941 and Canada was there. The Americans didn't get involved in WW11, until the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour. They may have "saved France's ass in WW11", but the millions of people being slaughtered and terrorized by Hitler was of little importance, apparantly. The U.S. and every other country in the world refused to accept refugees from central Europe, notably the SS St Louis when Hitler was menacing Germany. Subsequently, those people went to the gas chambers.

Edited by patricia
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"Dean is sickening. He has defintely forgot about 911."

  • Well, Bush and his gang did not forget about 9/11--they are shamelessly milking it for their own good. Fuck the people who died, let's use this to get into Iraq and get elected in 2004. That's what we are dealing with, I'm afraid--heartless, power-hungry appointees who think nothing of stooping below the bounds of decency in order to obtain their self-serving goals.

    This has nothing to do with us waging war on Germany and Japan in the 1940s--that was totally justified (Italy, too, for that matter), so analogies are silly.

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"Dean is sickening. He has defintely forgot about 911."
  • Well, Bush and his gang did not forget about 9/11--they are shamelessly milking it for their own good. Fuck the people who died, let's use this to get into Iraq and get elected in 2004. That's what we are dealing with, I'm afraid--heartless, power-hungry appointees who think nothing of stooping below the bounds of decency in order to obtain their self-serving goals.

    This has nothing to do with us waging war on Germany and Japan in the 1940s--that was totally justified (Italy, too, for that matter), so analogies are silly.





You're right. There is no analogy between the Second World War and this invasion of Iraq. I mentioned it, only because it was raised as an analogy.

In this case, the west is the aggressor, expanding their power base. This is not a defensive war, though it may very well become one. The Middle East has been a constant war of guerillas and of state-sponsored terrorism, for the last fifty years.

This is a war or agression in Iraq, on the strength of dubious justification, an invasion, if you will.......by the West.

Edited by patricia
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