Joe Henderson Milestone Years

[Gary]

I've just won (& received ) Joe Henderson - Milestone years box set from Ebay, except from his work with Blue Note I havent heard any Joe Henderson before .

I seem to have a mountain of discs to get through at the moment ( I still havent given the majority of the Paul Chambers & John Patten Mosaics a close listen & the 2 new ones are here) so are there any gems on the Henderson box ?

I seem to remember there are few of his fans on the board I'd love to hear their views.

[John L]

Gary: If you like Joe Henderson, you are in for a treat. This box is loaded full of exceptional music. Some of the later "out" recordings with Alice Coltrane and others might sound a bit dated. But a good majority of the music is solid and timeless, with Joe in top form.

[Rooster_Ties]

Mindless ramblings about this set...

• "The Kicker" and "Tetragon" (the two earliest albums) sound quite a bit like extensions of his days at Blue Note -- and both are probably about as good as most of Joe's BN material. "The Kicker" has a nice three-horn front-line, with Grachan Moncur(!) and Mike Lawrence. "Tetragon" features one quite interesting wholly-improvised track that shows a side of Joe that he didn't show as often in his career - a sort of prototypical 'free-bop' sort of thing, if I remember right.
  
  
• "Power to the People" (Milestone, 1969) ...is without a doubt one of THE finest Joe Henderson albums of ANY era, on any label. With Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter, Jack DeJohnette, along with Mike Lawrence on a couple tracks (on trumpet). IMHO, it includes possibly THE definitive version of "Black Narcissus", and really a incredible remake of "Isotope", and I like the version of "Lazy Afternoon" here even better than one Joe did on Pete La Roca's "Basra". Also another totally improvised track, which digs about as deep as Joe was capable of (which is to say pretty darn deep, though I realize there are plenty (before and after) who dug deeper - cuz that was more their thing, than Joe's).
  
  
• Then there's the 'live' material with Woody Shaw (including a number of bonus cuts not found on the original album), and another live album with Japanese musicians that really cooks. (All of the live material is 'top-drawer', at least in my dresser. And you can never go wrong with Woody along for the ride.)
  
  
• "Multiple" goes someplace new, and how could it not with James Blood Ulmer on board. Fairly strong tunes, but it's the textures and overall vibe of "Multiple" that really gets me. Sure, it sounds a bit dated today, with a few nods to commercialism (including vocals from Joe ( ), though don't let that scare you too bad - he just adds a new flavor, and doesn't screw things up like vocals could have pretty easily). Pretty deep album, that "Multiple" is -- or at least I sure thought so when I first got it back in college. Context: "moderately commercial"; Joe's soloing: "take no prisoners!!!" - 'nuff said, 'cept that it's BAAAADDDD!!!!
  
  
• "The Elements" is fairly unique in the cannon, with Alice Coltrane on piano and harp, Michael White on violin, Charlie Haden, plus a percussionist and a tabla-player (both). Back in the days when I first got this box-set, this was one of the albums I couldn't quite get my ears around. I recall it being deep, but the tunes didn't catch hold with me specifically - not enough structure for my tastes (at the time). I should dust this one off. (I suspect there's maybe an incredible album here, one that I just haven't taken the time to get to know well enough.)
  
  
• "Black Narcissus" has updated versions "Power to the People" and the title cut, with some interesting synth-tracks overdubbed, with quite spacey results. The tunes are strong enough that I really like this treatment of the material, or perhaps I should say that I find it really interesting, though I realize many find this material somewhat lacking. Joe's still Joe, and he came to play. I like the weird context, and it works for me.
  

I've left out a few albums, particularly those that didn't leave enough of a distinct impression to stand out on their own, from the rest on the box. (The only material on this box set that I knew in their original 'album' configurations was "The Kicker", "Power To The People" and "Multiple".) As result, quite a bit of the later material has enough similarity to it, so as to obscure the boundaries between albums. (You know, how like Mosaic packs 11 albums across 7 CD's, and it becomes hard to tell what's what.)

Overall, I'd have to give the Joe Milestone box about 4 stars (out of five). Not everything is a home-run, but he constantly gets on base, time and time again. I'm sure others here would only give it 3 or 3½ stars at most, and there is certainly room for a difference of opinion about some of the later material. But everything up through 1971's "Joe Henderson in Japan" is solidly solid, by any estimation. And I often find great joy in the new directions that Joe tried after that. Not all of them work in every way, but Joe never let's the ball drop either, particularly in his own playing specifically.

And in some ways, there's really not much else out there like some of the later albums on this set (at least not that I've found). That strange mix of music that tries to be slightly commercial (but certainly doesn't succeed on those grounds), and music that still tries it's damnedest to really 'reach' (even if it doesn't always quite reach where you'd like it to, or maybe quite as far as you'd like it to).

Joe didn't really create an entirely new language for himself during those later Milestone years, or anything close to the wild developmental changes that Miles went through during the entire first half of that same decade. Never the less, I think that fans of Miles in the 70's should find more to like in Joe's later Milestone years, than might people who only want Joe to be the "Joe" of his Blue Note years.

Edited December 4, 2003 by Rooster_Ties

[JSngry]

JOE HENDERSON IN JAPAN might very well be Joe's best album. I know it's my favorite of his.

[marcoliv]

gary, i have this one and it 's more than great. enjoy it!

Marcus Oliveira

Edited December 4, 2003 by marcoliv

[Parkertown]

Thanks for reminding me of this one. I'll dig it out and spin it today!

It's a great set, with purty darn good sound too, as I recall.

Edited December 4, 2003 by Parkertown

[Rooster_Ties]

Another thing that I think Joe got dinged for, about this material -- but something which I actually like...

...is his revisiting old material (often pretty frequently), presenting it in new contexts, within a short period of time.

If you look through the track-listing (AMG Review, with track-listing), you'll find a number of tracks are remakes of earlier BN material, which even in a few cases - he remade again within the span of just a few years. (Meaning he recorded three (or even in a few cases four?) studio versions of the same tune, within the span of 15 years - if you count his days with Blue Note, plus his Milestone years.)

And looking at the track-listing doesn't tell the whole story, because there are one or two tunes (“Recorda Me” is at least one of them, and I think there’s another one too), that show up in different guises (and substantially different arrangements), such that they don't even have the same titles as the originals. (Whether there was some 'copyright' reason for this, or artistic reason - I can't say which.)

Joe is one of the few artists I can think of who have presented multiple studio-versions of the same tunes, over such a short span of years, in such dramatically different contexts. (And in that respect, this mirrors Miles in the 70's a little bit too, at least if you consider the frequent repetition of themes across multiple 'live' albums from Miles in the 70's.)

[Guy Berger]

Mindless ramblings about this set...

[*]"The Kicker" and "Tetragon" (the two earliest albums) sound quite a bit like extensions of his days at Blue Note -- and both are probably about as good as most of Joe's BN material. "The Kicker" has a nice three-horn front-line, with Grachan Moncur(!) and Mike Lawrence.

The Kicker sounds like a pretty average album to me. Most of the tunes are better performed elsewhere and Joe doesn't get much of a chance to stretch out.

Guy

[BFrank]

I don't have this box (but would like to someday), and I think "The Kicker" and "Tetragon" are great albums - "Tetragon" in particular.

I would recommend "Relaxin' In Camarillo", too. Tony Williams is especially good here.

[mikeweil]

I would recommend "Relaxin' In Camarillo", too. Tony Williams is especially good here.

That one is not part of the box - it was recorded for Contemporary and is available as a single OJC CD.

I love the box, i.e. most of the albums included. I especially appreciate his fusion experiments with funk or soul elements, and the Latin album "Canyon Lady" - the percussionists on this are first class, and Joe always responds with great alertness to rhythmic contexts of any kind .

The first albums are kind of a continuation of the Blue Note sound.

[mikeweil]

[*]"Multiple" goes someplace new, and how could it not with James Blood Ulmer on board. Fairly strong tunes, but it's the textures and overall vibe of "Multiple" that really gets me. Sure, it sounds a bit dated today, with a few nods to commercialism (including vocals from Joe ( ), though don't let that scare you too bad - he just adds a new flavor, and doesn't screw things up like vocals could have pretty easily). Pretty deep album, that "Multiple" is -- or at least I sure thought so when I first got it back in college. Context: "moderately commercial"; Joe's soloing: "take no prisoners!!!" - 'nuff said, 'cept that it's BAAAADDDD!!!!

Blood Ulmer plays only on one track, as does John Thomas, a fine guitarist who went to live in Germany soon after the session. And they stay in the background, so do not expect guitar excursions.

The rhythm section of Dave Holland, Jack deJohnette and especially Larry Willis, who balances Joe's solos with some of his best funky Rhodes work up to par with Herbie Hancock, is the real kicker here.

[Morganized]

I don't have this box (but would like to someday), and I think "The Kicker" and "Tetragon" are great albums - "Tetragon" in particular.

I would recommend "Relaxin' In Camarillo", too. Tony Williams is especially good here.

Ditto

I understand that Relaxin at Camarillo" is not in the box which is a real shame. I like this one as well. Particularlly like the 1st tune " Y Todavia la Quiero". If you would like to hear how a weaker bass player can screw up a tune IMHO, check out Joe's version of this on the "Barcelona" cd and compare. Joe is so good on that number and he still can't pull it out. Again IMO. The bass player ruins the tune for me. The version on "Relaxin at Camarillo" is a whole nother story. Man is that good stuff.

[sidewinder]

The biggest suprise for me with this fine set were the Flora Purim vocals, which I enjoyed immensely. Joe's backing to Flora is just sublime, very sympathetic. The tracks from 'Power To The People' though are probably the standout, although the Lighthouse material recorded with Woody Shaw is also nice. Fine set !

[Guy Berger]

JOE HENDERSON IN JAPAN might very well be Joe's best album. I know it's my favorite of his.

The version of "Round Midnight" is stunning, some of Joe's most concentrated playing ever.

Guy

Edited August 26, 2004 by Guy Berger

[DrJ]

This is a great box. The live recordings (Japan material and the date with Woody Shaw) are top echalon Henderson. I find the rest more of a mixed bag quality wise - although in a way that makes for even more interesting listening than his Blue Notes - due to the variety and the very unevenness.

For someone coming to Henderson anew I'd definitely stay start with the Blue Notes, but I suspect I'll be returning to the Milestone box a lot more than the BNs over time before I feel I have really absorbed and appreciated what was he put down in that era. His playing on the best dates here was a lot more unfettered, freer, more purely improvisational and that makes for challenging but rewarding listening over time.

[Eric]

Only thing I might add from a potential buyer's perspective, is that most of this is now out on CD - so you can pick and choose. BTW, when I say most, I am taking into consideration that the complete Woody Shaw live stuff will be out in the next month.

http://www.fantasyjazz.com/catalog/henders..._cat.html#47104

Edited August 26, 2004 by Eric

[BFrank]

Didn't realize that "Relaxin'" wasn't in the box. As I said.....I don't have it myself.

Anyway, it seems that for the "right" price it's certainly worth picking up.

[Shrdlu]

I agree that this is a fine collection. Not all of the performances are Joe's best, but there's a lot of excellent stuff contained therein. "Power To The People" is certainly a great album, worthy of Blue Note.

The original engineering isn't the best, and leaves me wishing that Rudy had done some of the sessions, and the remastering in this (now fairly elderly) box set is not exactly of Japanese quality, but I'd still recommend the set without hesitation.

Joe did about three albums for Flora, and two are on my wants list at the moment. She was in fine form in those days. (Another of her Milestone albums from that era, "Stories To Tell", is also well worth getting - Joe isn't on that one.)

[Tony Pusey]

Seems that I am in a minority about this one. I have had the box twice and passed it on, just too uneven in my opinion, and I do not like the latin material, esp with Luis Gasca. Good news about an imminent release for the Live at the Lighthouse material. I will probably get that and the Live in Japan, and then pick and choose from the rest.

[connoisseur series500]

Mindless ramblings about this set...

• "The Kicker" and "Tetragon" (the two earliest albums) sound quite a bit like extensions of his days at Blue Note -- and both are probably about as good as most of Joe's BN material. "The Kicker" has a nice three-horn front-line, with Grachan Moncur(!) and Mike Lawrence. "Tetragon" features one quite interesting wholly-improvised track that shows a side of Joe that he didn't show as often in his career - a sort of prototypical 'free-bop' sort of thing, if I remember right.
  
  
• "Power to the People" (Milestone, 1969) ...is without a doubt one of THE finest Joe Henderson albums of ANY era, on any label. With Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter, Jack DeJohnette, along with Mike Lawrence on a couple tracks (on trumpet). IMHO, it includes possibly THE definitive version of "Black Narcissus", and really a incredible remake of "Isotope", and I like the version of "Lazy Afternoon" here even better than one Joe did on Pete La Roca's "Basra". Also another totally improvised track, which digs about as deep as Joe was capable of (which is to say pretty darn deep, though I realize there are plenty (before and after) who dug deeper - cuz that was more their thing, than Joe's).
  
  
• Then there's the 'live' material with Woody Shaw (including a number of bonus cuts not found on the original album), and another live album with Japanese musicians that really cooks. (All of the live material is 'top-drawer', at least in my dresser. And you can never go wrong with Woody along for the ride.)
  
  
• "Multiple" goes someplace new, and how could it not with James Blood Ulmer on board. Fairly strong tunes, but it's the textures and overall vibe of "Multiple" that really gets me. Sure, it sounds a bit dated today, with a few nods to commercialism (including vocals from Joe ( ), though don't let that scare you too bad - he just adds a new flavor, and doesn't screw things up like vocals could have pretty easily). Pretty deep album, that "Multiple" is -- or at least I sure thought so when I first got it back in college. Context: "moderately commercial"; Joe's soloing: "take no prisoners!!!" - 'nuff said, 'cept that it's BAAAADDDD!!!!
  
  
• "The Elements" is fairly unique in the cannon, with Alice Coltrane on piano and harp, Michael White on violin, Charlie Haden, plus a percussionist and a tabla-player (both). Back in the days when I first got this box-set, this was one of the albums I couldn't quite get my ears around. I recall it being deep, but the tunes didn't catch hold with me specifically - not enough structure for my tastes (at the time). I should dust this one off. (I suspect there's maybe an incredible album here, one that I just haven't taken the time to get to know well enough.)
  
  
• "Black Narcissus" has updated versions "Power to the People" and the title cut, with some interesting synth-tracks overdubbed, with quite spacey results. The tunes are strong enough that I really like this treatment of the material, or perhaps I should say that I find it really interesting, though I realize many find this material somewhat lacking. Joe's still Joe, and he came to play. I like the weird context, and it works for me.
  

I've left out a few albums, particularly those that didn't leave enough of a distinct impression to stand out on their own, from the rest on the box. (The only material on this box set that I knew in their original 'album' configurations was "The Kicker", "Power To The People" and "Multiple".) As result, quite a bit of the later material has enough similarity to it, so as to obscure the boundaries between albums. (You know, how like Mosaic packs 11 albums across 7 CD's, and it becomes hard to tell what's what.)

Overall, I'd have to give the Joe Milestone box about 4 stars (out of five). Not everything is a home-run, but he constantly gets on base, time and time again. I'm sure others here would only give it 3 or 3½ stars at most, and there is certainly room for a difference of opinion about some of the later material. But everything up through 1971's "Joe Henderson in Japan" is solidly solid, by any estimation. And I often find great joy in the new directions that Joe tried after that. Not all of them work in every way, but Joe never let's the ball drop either, particularly in his own playing specifically.

And in some ways, there's really not much else out there like some of the later albums on this set (at least not that I've found). That strange mix of music that tries to be slightly commercial (but certainly doesn't succeed on those grounds), and music that still tries it's damnedest to really 'reach' (even if it doesn't always quite reach where you'd like it to, or maybe quite as far as you'd like it to).

Joe didn't really create an entirely new language for himself during those later Milestone years, or anything close to the wild developmental changes that Miles went through during the entire first half of that same decade. Never the less, I think that fans of Miles in the 70's should find more to like in Joe's later Milestone years, than might people who only want Joe to be the "Joe" of his Blue Note years.

Far from mindless, Tom. This is a super review!!

I wish AMG provided reviews as helpful as yours. Awesome!

You've got some kind of career awaiting you in jazz revews.

Wow!!

[Rooster_Ties]

Anybody know why the tracks with Joe on Patrice Rushen's "Prelusion" (1974) weren't included in this set??

My copy of "Prelusion" is a Japanese Import, and it says Prestige on it. If that's right, then it wasn't a Milestone release originally (so there's my answer). BUT, it's sometimes hard to tell with all the Fantasy stuff, exactly what things were originally. (Pardon my ignorance, but I didn't think Prestige was an active label in the mid 70's. That's why I question the Prestige imprint on my Japanese issue.)

Is there anything else with Joe on it, in Fantasy's vast holdings?? - besides the Milestone box material, and this one Patrice Rushen date??

Edited April 14, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[JSngry]

PRECLUSION was indeed a Prestige issue. I heard it playing in a record store the day it was released and bought it immediately. Prestige remained quite active well into the 70s, both before and after being purchased by Fantasy. Lots of Gene Ammons, Charles Earland, and others. Dexter Gordon too.

As for other Fantasy-owned material w/Joe on it, there's a fair bit, most of it on Galaxy - albums JJ Johnson, Roy Haynes, Richard Davis, those two "different sax plaers fronting the same rhytm section things", maybe some more, I can't recall. He's also on two of Donald Byrd's Landmark sides.

[Rooster_Ties]

Thanks Jim,

I maybe should have qualified by question to ask if there was anything that Fantasy owned with Joe, that wasn't on the Milestone box, from the same time-period (as the Milestone box).

I'd forgotten about the Charles Earland stuff with Joe. Don't have as much of the rest of Joe's 70's output as a sideman.

[JSngry]

I'd forgotten about the Charles Earland stuff with Joe. Don't have as much of the rest of Joe's 70's output as a sideman.

Get it.

NOW!

[JSngry]

I maybe should have qualified by question to ask if there was anything that Fantasy owned with Joe, that wasn't on the Milestone box, from the same time-period (as the Milestone box).

Is the Flora Purim material included?