574 replies to this topic

[king ubu]

Interesting, Jim! And very helpful!
I did indeed think of Shorter's own 80s albums for Columbia, which I got in that recent box a few months ago, too - I found listening to them a very similar experience... music that fails yet to grab me on an emotional level, but where I feel there's plenty of fascinating stuff going on and I should just keep listening and let them grow on me.

[JSngry]

In both cases, I think that Giuffre and Shorter have more than earned the benefit of the doubt!

Which is just to say that I'll try to understand their POVs in the hopes of broadening mine. Don't have to "like" something in order to eventually "love" it, and vice-versa, if you know what I mean. And when you can tell that the people and the intent are serious, then like I said, if you've earned the benefit of the doubt, I'll give it to you.

[king ubu]

Agreed on all points!

[Chuck Nessa]

In both cases I reached a point when I didn't automatically give them my money.

[jeffcrom]

I love Giuffre so much, including the Soul Notes, that I have my blinders on a little bit, I guess - it always surprises me when folks don't like those albums. I've got a friend who loves Giuffre almost as much as I do, but can't stand the Soul Notes due to the 80's synth sounds.

Those three albums are not my "desert island" Giuffre records, I still think they're wonderful - interesting compositions, great colors, lots of textural variety. The rhythm section doesn't bother me at all. There are musicians whom I'm willing to "forgive" for a lot of questionable musical decisions, but that's not an issue with the Giuffre albums - I like them a lot.

I'm not sure what the point of this post was. Nothing to add except my opinion/tastes, but there it is.

[JSngry]

it always surprises me when folks don't like those albums.

It usually surprises me when people do!

Seriously, not that many fans are willing to move along with their favorite artists (the ones that keep moving, that is). You can make a list of people (and start it with Art Pepper, sonny Rollins, & Wayne Shorter) of players who have a lot of "fans up to a point".

I'm with you, though. Giuffre is one of those guys I went with, no matter what. It was never boring, never insincere, and never thoughtless. I'll take that!

[jeffcrom]

Right now I'm listening to Liquid Dancers from 1989, the last of Giuffre's Soul Notes, and I realize that I didn't even come close to articulating the primary virtue of JG's Soul Note recordings - that is, their Giuffre-ness. Giuffre was one of those musicians who created his own world in a way that most musicians don't, and that comes through strongly on this album, dated synth sounds and all.

[JSngry]

dated synth sounds

All sounds are dated, or will be. Embrace the sound, and let the worriers "date" it!

[king ubu]

I guess George Russell fits with the "up to a point" crowd, too... haven't really started exploring his Soul Notes, seems like a big investment of time will be needed there, too... what I've heard was fascinating enough to get the box, for sure, but I think with him, most folks go to the end of the riversides and maybe (if they can find it) add the MPS... but the two late Blue Notes are fine as well, and so is the London Concert on Label Bleu!

Btw: what's the deal with some of the Russells having been on Strata East and Flying Dutchman?
Soul Note/Black Saint got started in the mid seventies only - did they acquire these recordings later on?
Any others where that was the case?

[Chuck Nessa]

Russell owned a number of these and leased them to other labels before consolidating them on Soul Note.

[king ubu]

Okay, thanks!

So it's not that Soul Note bought some Strata East or Flying Dutchman masters... could have thought so!

[CraigP]

I've got the Russell set on order, as I only have Vertical Form currently. Live at Beethoven Hall on MPS is one of my all-time favorites, but to me his later stuff is too influenced by rock rhythms and is hit or miss. I'm looking forward to hearing more

[JSngry]

The problem I have with later Russell isn't with anything but the bands. I just don't hear the individual orchestral personality that I like to hear out of big bands. But that's quite possibly my problem, and listening objectively to the writing, it's still in a class of its own, imo.

[sidewinder]

The Russell is an extremely good box. Having missed out on the LPs when they came out (Soul Note was never one of my favourites) it's a pleasure to hear them in fine remastered sound. The small print size for the essays is a pain in the neck though !

[king ubu]

Not at home, hence can't check the discographies... took the Giuffre box to work and just noticed the date of "Dragonfly". The generic CD back-cover gives Jan. 14 & 15, 1989, but the disc is located first within the box (dates given for "Quasar" are May 3 & 5, 1985 and for "Liquid Dancers" - LP back-cover - it gives April 24, 1989).

Allmusic gives Jan. 14 & 15, 1983 and so does Discogs... I assume the Giuffre box hence is in correct sequence but the date on the back-cover of "Dragonfly" is printed wrongly?

[jeffcrom]

Not at home, hence can't check the discographies... took the Giuffre box to work and just noticed the date of "Dragonfly". The generic CD back-cover gives Jan. 14 & 15, 1989, but the disc is located first within the box (dates given for "Quasar" are May 3 & 5, 1985 and for "Liquid Dancers" - LP back-cover - it gives April 24, 1989).

Allmusic gives Jan. 14 & 15, 1983 and so does Discogs... I assume the Giuffre box hence is in correct sequence but the date on the back-cover of "Dragonfly" is printed wrongly?

The Allmusic dates for Dragonfly are correct.

[colinmce]

I'm looking forward to hearing those Giuffres when I get some cash. I'm a huge fan of John Surman's solo ECMs so I don't think the synths will be bothersome at all.

[JETman]

There's a late Weather Reporty feel to these first three Giuffres in the Soul Note box. This isn't helped by the feeling that the electric bass player (Bob Nieske) sounds so much like Jaco (contemporaneously, of course). Had never heard these records before, but I kinda like the fact that Giuffre was daring enough to step out of his comfort zone. Bravo to him!

[tranemonk]

Just ordered the Don Pullen box this AM... Great price over at grooves.inc. $32 US incl. free shipping for 7CDs...

I'll probably get the WSQ box at some point...

[JETman]

Just ordered the Don Pullen box this AM... Great price over at grooves.inc. $32 US incl. free shipping for 7CDs...

I'll probably get the WSQ box at some point...

The WSQ box is a worthy purchase AFAIC. It's been a difficult listen though (only one disc at a time for me). The arrangements are interesting, but it's been difficult for me to acclimate to all the parts being played by horns.

[king ubu]

Thanks Jeff for confirming!

I'm not sure Giuffre really had any comfort zone at all, JETman... he does seem to me to be among the few (Konitz is another one, and Wayne Shorter much of the time, too) that seems to get along without that for most of the time.

The WSQ box is fine... I found two great Elektra LPs a few months before, and heard some more of their stuff already and love the sound.

[starthrower]

I could have made good use of the Murray box 12-15 years ago, but I've lost interest at this point. I can't get enough of the 80s Bill Frisell sound, so I've got to get the Motian box.

I'd gladly pay 5 dollars more per set if they would have included a small booklet with readable type. The microscopic print on the original album cover facsimiles is useless.

[Chuck Nessa]

They should offer pdf files of the notes.

[JSngry]

Either that of logo-ized magnifying glasses.

Merchandise!

[7/4]

They should offer pdf files of the notes.

Yeah!

[romualdo]

I'd gladly pay 5 dollars more per set if they would have included a small booklet with readable type. The microscopic print on the original album cover facsimiles is useless.

I scan & print or use jewellers glasses

[AfricaBrass]

They should offer pdf files of the notes.

That's a great idea!

[king ubu]

Whatever happened to the CAM jazz website anyway?
Why is Art Farmer not properly listed? They re-vamped the whole site but you can't find the stuff any longer... it looks nice but it's crap. If you search for Farmer, you find a sh*tload of stuff, including most of the ones Farmer seems to be actually playing on, but NOT the Jazztet material. Corporate thinking, I guess...

Also, a friend of mine also got a faulty Murray box and asked for a replacement... he was asked to send proof he really bought it, sent on his amazon mail and hasn't heard back for a week now.

[JETman]

Yes, I agree with your assessment. One can't even catch all the boxed sets with one click anymore. To find them now, you have to know which artists they fall under. Truly odd.

When I sent my email to Cam about the faulty Murray set, I was never even asked if I had purchased it. Maybe they finally realized that a lot of people were taking advantage of the offer without having done so. How they did this, I'm not sure. Maybe it had to do with printing more replacements than faulty sets?

[Chuck Nessa]

I was asked to describe the flaws.