shaft Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 Hi! I can mention a few titles I've had the pleasure to compare side to side: 1. Morgan's "Sidewinder" 2. Dexter's "GO" 3. Blakey's "Moanin" They are all terrible in RVG (and I mean terrible!) /Shaft I just listened to the McMaster & (J)RVG versions of 'Totem Pole'....and apart from some subtle differences in the low end (favoring the McMaster) "terrible" is not a word that springs to mind. God awful, maybe.......but not terrible! What I've noticed on some of the RVG remasters are that the placement of the instruments change. In Jackie McLean's Demon Dance, the RVG version has Jackie's sound pushed back, giving an overall muddled sound, where in the McMaster, his sound is easily distinguishable from the others. Hi again! I pulled out the two discs and compared again and sure you are right that the RVG is maybe not terrible per se but the low end is sadly missing. The double bass sounds almost like a cello but the treble was more OK than i remebered. However I do not like the narrower stereo spread that RVG put into some of these discs. /Shaft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 "Out to lunch" is another one which sounds much better on the McMaster. The RVG sounds very harsh and bloated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 I have tons of RVGs but then someday sort of stopped "upgrading"... If anyone wants my old "Demon's Dance"... I will keep "Money Jungle" in both versions though, somehow the old one sounds warmer and fuller to me, but the new one has more music... also I didn't update all of the Chet Baker discs, though because the programming is different, that's a nuisance... but this is off topic anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcrom Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 My Blue Note CDs are a mixture of McMasters, RVG, Conn series, Rare Groove series, and various imports. I bought whatever was available to me at the time I wanted the CD. And I'm satisfied, for the most part - most of them sound pretty good, whatever edition they are. I have two that I consider pretty poor sounding - the McMaster Miles Davis Volume Two (mastered from second-generation tapes) and a Spanish Freddie Roach Down to Earth that has lots of issues - probably also not from the original tapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clunky Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 (edited) I picked the Rumproller up for £3 in the Fopp sale I mentioned above, I've not heard this average session before but the sound of the RVG is very poor, Rudy asleep at the controls that day, avoid. The session is pretty so-so anyway so I'll not be looking for another version. Edited March 24, 2010 by Clunky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 What, do you say that "Down to Earth" came out in the bluish Time series??? About the same mixture, but I only have three or four TOCJs (and recently sold the Reece "Star Bright"). I tend to keep Conns and in most cases McMs as well when I have them already. I'd still buy an RVG of "The Empty Foxhole", as all I have is the Conn LP and CDs do, after all, come in more handy for daily listening... I got all the RVGs of Monk and Bud - but kept the 4CD sets for the Five Spot and Roost sessions, respectively. Also got the RVGs of Miles, the one Jay Jay (the other I have in the Clifford Brown 4CD set, another one I won't replace). As for the usual smart-ass talk of those with big fat hi-fi sets that cost as much as a new tank, uhm, pardon, SUV... us normal earthlings with bad hi-fi sets (or with lo-fi sets) sometimes just do wonder what "sounds better", without the slightest regard to what set-up you use or how long you warm up your tubes and what kind of cold-pressed olive oil you use to greeze up your gear... So bear with us and allow us to get some general answers now and then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clunky Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 What, do you say that "Down to Earth" came out in the bluish Time series??? About the same mixture, but I only have three or four TOCJs (and recently sold the Reece "Star Bright"). I tend to keep Conns and in most cases McMs as well when I have them already. I'd still buy an RVG of "The Empty Foxhole", as all I have is the Conn LP and CDs do, after all, come in more handy for daily listening... I got all the RVGs of Monk and Bud - but kept the 4CD sets for the Five Spot and Roost sessions, respectively. Also got the RVGs of Miles, the one Jay Jay (the other I have in the Clifford Brown 4CD set, another one I won't replace). As for the usual smart-ass talk of those with big fat hi-fi sets that cost as much as a new tank, uhm, pardon, SUV... us normal earthlings with bad hi-fi sets (or with lo-fi sets) sometimes just do wonder what "sounds better", without the slightest regard to what set-up you use or how long you warm up your tubes and what kind of cold-pressed olive oil you use to greeze up your gear... So bear with us and allow us to get some general answers now and then! The Conn LP of "The Empty Foxhole" is a Wally as they say and sounds really good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 I have stopped purchasing those BN reissues several years ago. Glad to get some of them when they added extra material. The only one that was really a revelation as far as the sound was concerned was the RVG Birth of the Cool. Van Gelder did wonders on that one. Maybe he had more interets/fun with it since he had not taken part in the original sessions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron S Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 The only one that was really a revelation as far as the sound was concerned was the RVG Birth of the Cool. Van Gelder did wonders on that one. Maybe he had more interets/fun with it since he had not taken part in the original sessions! Wasn't the improvement in sound quality of the RVG Birth of the Cool due to the discovery of original--or at least closer to original--sources that had not been available for prior releases? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcrom Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 What, do you say that "Down to Earth" came out in the bluish Time series??? Yes - picked it up about a year ago in Athens, Georgia. It doesn't sound very good (distorted, out-of-phase cymbals, for example), but since I can't just go out and buy a better CD of Down to Earth, I'm keeping it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 Just let Blue Note RIP and move on to other music. Then you won't have to worry about any of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrdlu Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Not wishing to have a go at anyone, but hasn't this debate gone on long enough? I forget which year the BN board was stopped, but this topic was well worn out even back then. Next week, fox hunting in the U.K. (Shhh, it might come up in their boring general election this summer, the year of the airbrushed Tory "stud" - I guess Brown isn't considered worth airbrushing.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 The only one that was really a revelation as far as the sound was concerned was the RVG Birth of the Cool. Van Gelder did wonders on that one. Maybe he had more interets/fun with it since he had not taken part in the original sessions! Wasn't the improvement in sound quality of the RVG Birth of the Cool due to the discovery of original--or at least closer to original--sources that had not been available for prior releases? The liner notes to the reissue indicate that it was RVG who went back to the masters of the original tapes, something that no one had bothered to do before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 I thought they only found the original masters again before RVG did his version? The other complete set is still essential though, as it has a legit version of the great live broadcasts (I also have a Cicala LP of that one... but for daily digestion, CDs are more handy, methinks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Not wishing to have a go at anyone, but hasn't this debate gone on long enough? I forget which year the BN board was stopped, but this topic was well worn out even back then. Hey, the 'which cd version sounds better?' conversations pop-up with the regularity of the 'remember when Aunt Millie had that kidney stone and cousin Stan's wife skinned her nose when she dove into the hotel fountain after downing 8 gin & tonics?' stories at all the family get togethers. Ya just have to nod and smile while thinking of ways to excuse yourself from the table so that you can head out to the kitchen and down the back steps for a relaxing glass of wine and a smoke while listening to the undeniably superior sounding 'Soul Station' RVG over the patio sound system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind-blake Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 They sound basically the same to me. I think the RVGs are a marketing tool to get people to buy the same music with a little tinkering and extra photos. That's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 The later ones sound indeed very similar to the McMasters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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