RainyDay Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 I played Sacred Fire this morning. It is one of my favorite recods because it is such a showcase for his talent. Not only is Carlos a brilliant guitar player, he is versatile and has the ability to assemble the finest musicians in order to create a kick ass band. There are reggae beats, rock, Afro Cuban and African rythmns, jazz, solid vocal work and even some Yoruba chanting. I can see why folks who dig Steely Dan wouldn't necessarily like Santana. In these parts, Steely Dan is found on the Smooth Jazz station, and rightfully so. I don't dig SD. It doesn't mean they can't play, it just means I find their music boring. Some of the commentry aired here seems to be more personally directed at Santana. Just because you don't like someone's music doesn't mean they can't play. This he-peaked-in-the-1960's stuff is pretty funny. The man is still growing and exploring as an artist. Frankly, I'm glad he's not stuck in the 1960's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregK Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 I can see why folks who dig Steely Dan wouldn't necessarily like Santana. In these parts, Steely Dan is found on the Smooth Jazz station, and rightfully so. I don't dig SD. It doesn't mean they can't play, it just means I find their music boring. I must be missing something here. I am a big, big fan of Steely Dan and I think Santana is great. I especially love his tone. So, where do I fit, if I like them both?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Well, I may be in the minority here, but I think if Carlos really wanted to do this he could produce an interesting version of ALS. And I wouldn't mind if he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Well, I may be in the minority here, but I think if Carlos really wanted to do this he could produce an interesting version of ALS. And I wouldn't mind if he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted February 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Doesn't a piece of music become "reinvented" every time it is performed? Unless jazz belongs in a museum in which case no one should ever touch it and it should be kept in hermetically sealed display cases, why not turn it inside out?. The worst that can happen is that it will sound awful. It wouldn't mar Coltrane's original work. I wonder if Coltrane would be so hard on Santana if he were still alive. I thought Coltrane was all about breaking the rules. Hey, I'm all for musicians tackling A Love Supreme and reinventing it. But when you're dealing with a composition as personal as ALS (and this composition clearly meant a lot to Trane), I think you should show deep respect and understanding for what the composer was trying to achieve. Instead, Santana's new conception of the piece sounds like empty glitz and bombast (orchestra, "all the musicians in tuxedos"). If the guy respects Trane and A Love Supreme, then he should cut the superficial crap and approach this work with the seriousness it deserves. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 (edited) I personally don't think that the "tuxedos" and other aspects of Santana's description necessarily mean that it cannot be a serious attempt at interpretation, or that it would feature "superficial crap." Edited February 15, 2004 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainyDay Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I can see why folks who dig Steely Dan wouldn't necessarily like Santana. In these parts, Steely Dan is found on the Smooth Jazz station, and rightfully so. I don't dig SD. It doesn't mean they can't play, it just means I find their music boring. I must be missing something here. I am a big, big fan of Steely Dan and I think Santana is great. I especially love his tone. So, where do I fit, if I like them both?? Where you fit in is that you have good taste some of the time. Nobody's perfect. (It's a joke, okay?) RE The superficial crap comment: How can you pre-judge a piece of work that hasn't even been created yet? Wouldn't you have to be a fortune teller to decide today that a piece of work that may still be in Carlos' head is going to be superficial crap? I just love it when people pre-judge something they haven't seen, heard or read. In this case, it doesn't even EXIST YET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainyDay Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I can see why folks who dig Steely Dan wouldn't necessarily like Santana. In these parts, Steely Dan is found on the Smooth Jazz station, and rightfully so. I don't dig SD. It doesn't mean they can't play, it just means I find their music boring. I must be missing something here. I am a big, big fan of Steely Dan and I think Santana is great. I especially love his tone. So, where do I fit, if I like them both?? Where you fit in is that you have good taste some of the time. Nobody's perfect. (It's a joke, okay?) RE The superficial crap comment: How can you pre-judge a piece of work that hasn't even been created yet? Wouldn't you have to be a fortune teller to decide today that a piece of work that may still be in Carlos' head is going to be superficial crap? I just love it when people pre-judge something they haven't seen, heard or read. In this case, it doesn't even EXIST YET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neveronfriday Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 How did Steely Dan dissing work itself into this thread? That's what I'd like to know. Most musicians I know (yeah, I know what kind of comment that invites, but please spare me ) couldn't hold a candle to the members of Steely Dan. Not even a stump. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neveronfriday Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 On second thought, many of them can't hold a candle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainyDay Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 he references tons of jazz tunes i'll take steely dan, thanks. or, preferably, the minutemen, who have even BETTER lyrics. (their cover "doctor wu" is pretty great too.) tastes differ but really, i wanna hear a funny carlos story or joke. it'd make me resent him for filling up the .99 cent bins less. out, clem That's how Steely Dan got here. I never said SD couldn't play, I said that they play boring music. In the Bay Area, find SD on the smooth jazz channel and "soft" rock stations. In the Bay Area, find Santana on nearly every channel except classical and jazz. That's how much Santana stinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I'm with Jazzbo on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I personally don't think that the "tuxedos" and other aspects of Santana's description necessarily mean that it cannot be a serious attempt at interpretation, or that it would feature "superficial crap." Like "tuxedos"? I don't know...maybe if it featured nipple shields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I grew up in the Bay Area and still visit frequently, RainyDay, and I'm not sure what radio stations you're listening to but Steely Dan ain't just played on smooth jazz stations...that's just a totally ridiculous (and desperate) comment. Last time I was down there, a few weeks back, I heard cuts from AJA and THE ROYAL SCAM on the hard rock stations, as but one example. It's also flat out bizarre to even try and compare Steely Dan and Santana, I can't think of more different acts in terms of both fundamental temperment and methods. Both were great in their prime, though. Anyway: more power to Carlos if he wants to try "A Love Supreme" - I'd actually LOVE it if he turned me into a liar and came up with something worthwhile. While it sounds like a stupendously bad idea to me for him to even try it now (as opposed to 20 years ago when he MAY have had the chops and creativity to do it convincingly), what the hell does that even matter? It's certainly not like I have any pull (geez, don't I WISH that my opinions made a difference in what great artists recorded!). And it's not like by having a few of us chuckle at the idea here, that's somehow going to foul the whole deal and Carlos is going to "call it all off" in a huff. I mean that's kind of the silly implication in some of the angry "rebuttal" posts here, that because we're not interested in the idea, we're somehow creating "negative energy" and that's going to screw the whole thing up. Now THAT'S a concept Santana would get behind I'm sure, given his amusing brand of double-speak mysticism. I'm just hoping that if he does try to bring "the dream" to fruition, in keeping with his late 60's roots, those tuxedos have a paisley pattern and REALLY wide lapels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainyDay Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 he references tons of jazz tunes i'll take steely dan, thanks. or, preferably, the minutemen, who have even BETTER lyrics. (their cover "doctor wu" is pretty great too.) tastes differ but really, i wanna hear a funny carlos story or joke. it'd make me resent him for filling up the .99 cent bins less. out, clem That's how Steely Dan got here. I never said SD couldn't play, I said that they play boring music. In the Bay Area, find SD on the smooth jazz channel and "soft" rock stations. In the Bay Area, find Santana on nearly every channel except classical and jazz. That's how much Santana stinks. I never said SD was only played on smooth stations. I wasn't the one who raised SD as an issue. I agree, the comparison is weird. Like I said, not liking someone's music is a person's perogative. But SOME of the comments here seem to be directed at him personally. Miles Davis was a little skinny wife beating asshole and I still like his music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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