Blindfold Compilations

[Dan Gould]

This has been brought up tonite by AB and at the same time, listening to Jim S.'s discs also suggests to me that it is a discussion ripe for the having.

AB asked things like, are you supposed to try to stump people? Are cuts from a Mosaic set too obvious? Does it have to be jazz, what about "cool instrumental music"?

In the meantime, Jim has included stuff that I wouldn't have considered at all.

So, #1, I'd like to suggest that we agree to stick to jazz, in its many countless forms and not stray into other genres. It is a jazz board, even as we talk about other musical forms with almost as much enthusiasm.

#2, as to AB's questions, I would say that the point is NOT to stump people or to find the most obscure recordings. Pick tunes you like by artists you admire. Don't go looking for obscurities, but don't avoid them either. Give a mix. Make it a tune that will be recognized by an artist you might not expect. Find a middle ground-not too easy and not too hard.

Music from Mosaic sets are fine-Dr. J. used one himself. Any source is fine, too-CD, LP, private recording even. I used a track from a VHS tape.

As people are getting their own compilations lined up, I think it would be a good idea to hash out opinions on these matters, especially for people who missed the earlier discussions of these issues.

[connoisseur series500]

So, #1, I'd like to suggest that we agree to stick to jazz, in its many countless forms and not stray into other genres.

I agree here.

I will endeavor to give all the tracks a serious hearing and all this with so much of my own collection requiring my eartime.

So given everyone's time limitations, I think it important tostick with Jazz and its variants.

[chuckyd4]

I'm totally in agreement with #2, Dan.

On the #1, though, I think it's gonna get a bit tricky when we start trying to draw hard and fast rules on whether or not something's "jazz." Sure, I agree that the BF tests should have a jazz emphasis, but who's to say where that line begins and ends? Not to get philosophical about it, or pose a pretentious rhetorical question here - I honestly wonder about some of my considerations in thinking about the test I have coming up.

For instance, not to give things away, but what happens when I think about someone like a Fela Kuti? His stuff has a lot of jazz influences, and I'm almost certain it would open at least a couple of ears around here, and possibly generate some absolute fanatics, but I definitely wouldn't classify it as jazz. I mean, I'm not suggesting making up a test of Pixies and Fugazi and Public Enemy, just to stump people, but why make such a rule in the first place?

I have a feeling that anybody who visits here enough to volunteer to compile one of these will have enough jazz-based material to satisfy the faithful.

Just a thought....

[Noj]

I think those who are annoyed by material that is not jazz will know within a few bars that it isn't something they want to comment on, and could post something like "#7--decline to comment." Would it really take up so much time?

Or maybe tell us all why it is the track in question is so terrible as to be a waste of time. Rake the compiler over the coals! Take him to task, one track at a time! It could be part of the fun, and may even reveal more about what makes jazz listeners tick. Express your distaste. It may even be what the compiler intended.

[Rooster_Ties]

I agree with #2.

But I only agree with #1 in terms of that being a general guideline, and not a hard-fast rule. People should take into consideration all kinds of factors in choosing what they want to choose for their own Blindfold tests. If that's all Jazz, or nearly all Jazz - then great. But if people want to put other kinds of music in there too, because they really feel strongly about it - we'll, who am I to stop 'em??

I think that people on the board should express what they generally desire Blindfold Tests to be about (as recipients), but that doesn't mean everyone has to follow suit 100%. I mean, if there's some non-jazz thing I'm dying to have other people hear, and tell me what they think about it -- well, then nothing's gonna stop me from including it on my BF test. (Not that I have anything like that in mind, but if I did - I wouldn't let "rules" keep me from including it.)

Everybody here knows that this board is HEAVILY focused on jazz. And as a result, I think naturally 90% of the BF tests will be made up of 100% jazz. But if something else gets snuck in, here and there, well - that's the way it goes.

[Harold_Z]

I think the compiler should make all the decisions. One of the reasons for these tests is to hopefuly expose people to music they would not otherwise be exposed to and at times JAZZ is in the eye the beholder. Didn't Duke Ellington say something to the effect that he didn't want to be held prisoner by the word jazz?

My disc hasn't arrived yet, but I can tell you this - I'm thoroughly looking forward to it and if it there are things on it that I don't dig ...well, it's like this... the guy that compiled it chose things for a reason- if he put something on here there is a sound musical reason for it to be here - and, in some way that may not be obvious at first hearing to some of us, demonstrates the continuum that includes Jazz and large parts of American Pop, Gospel, R&B, Rock, you name it. So if it's here and I don't dig it, I'm going to listen again and I'm going to talk about it here - and so is the guy that put it together. I think that's what this is ALL about.

Edited December 7, 2003 by Harold_Z

[Jim Dye]

I have a feeling that anybody who visits here enough to volunteer to compile one of these will have enough jazz-based material to satisfy the faithful.

Express your distaste. It may even be what the compiler intended.

I agree with these sentiments. If you don't like it, just say so! There are already, what, almost 30 people signed up? If you really hate a certain test, know that there will be another one around the corner that you may just love. Surprise! It's what makes this whole experiment so much fun.

[AfricaBrass]

I feel the same way, Harold.

I have enough respect for Jim that I would listen to a CD of Christmas caroles if that's what he had picked. I know there'd be a damn good reason for his choice of songs. I actually like his Blindfold CDs, I think they're interesting. I'm going to continue to listen to the CDs over and over and....

As for compiler's choice. I was thinking of including some tracks that wouldn't be found in the jazz section of the local record store, but they had elements that were influenced by jazz. I also was considering the some 1970's Fela Kuti. I don't know how a jazz lover could hate that music. I also had considered a Ravi Shankar track that had Bud Shank, Gary Peacock, and Louis Hayes on it.

My hope is that I'll be exposed to artists I know and artists I'd never heard before. I figure if someone on this board likes something enough to put it on their Blindfold CD, then that track must have some merit and I'm going to listen with an open mind.

[Jazzmoose]

Hmm. My feeling is that the only tunes that should go on the disc are ones that make the compiler think "Oh, man, these guys have got to hear this!!" Other than that, I can't think of any limitations, although I'll admit, a disc of the latest death metal bands would certainly disappoint...

[mikeweil]

Didn't Duke Ellington say something to the effect that he didn't want to be held prisoner by the word jazz?

Not sure about this, but I know he once stated: "There are only two kinds of music, good and bad."

Now I wouldn't include a Michael Jackson tune or Britney Spears, but anything that has SOME realationship to jazz. This music has influnced so many musicians over the world, it's ubiquitous. On the other hand, there is music that may sound similar to jazz and makes an interesting comparison, which is a relationship to jazz made up by the compiler and/or listener.

I go for JSngry's statement: Give the people what you want them to hear!

You can't please everybody, but I'm sure each of us considers very carefully what to include and what not, and I appreciate everyone's choices, no matter how much our tastes differ! Tolerance and opennes is part of jazz and the scene (and this forum), or at least it should be, 'cause that's how it came into life!

[.:.impossible]

Why so many rules? It's a blindfold test. It's supposed to be fun! I've listened to Jim's 1st disc a few times, so I imagine this conversation is spurred by something on disc 2. Oh the controversy.

ps As long as no one puts a Charlie Parker re-mix on the blindfold test, I a say anything goes! a joke.

[JSngry]

Wow, Dan, you must have been REALLY offended by my discs! Would you like a refund? :g

There were 3 "non-jazz" cuts on my two discs (using a definition of "jazz" that is not rigidly dogmatic and/or stylistically myopic), and a fourth that is by an artist whose "status" as a jazz artist is a matter of constant debate. All of these cuts were chosen with very specific musical reasons in mind, and as commentary on the music they precede, follow, or are sandwiched by. As well, 2 of these 3 are artists who have had a HUGE impact on the soul-jazz/funk-jazz favored by a lot of people here, so there is a relevance to their inclusion, because I think that there are some people who are unaware or underaware of these artists. My test, my opportunity to give them exposure, and I think that all compilers should have the same opportunity.

As for obscurities, bring 'em on, I say, especially if they are things by artists we know or artists the compiler would like to give exposure to. Everybody we like, we had to hear for a first time somewhere, right? Why should that first time not be here? Also, knowing that "jazz" is a music with an incredibly deep and broad past and present, it stands to reason that the audience for it will consist of people with very diverse tastes. If a compiler wants to play to a "known quantity", so to speak, in terms of audience and genre, that's their perogative, but if a compiler wants to cross eras and mix up genres, that too should be their perogative.

In my mind, the Blindfold Tests should be whatever the compiler wants them to be. If the compiler wants to make a "this is the only kind of jazz I like, and here's some of it", go for that. There's going to be some good music there. Similarly, if a compiler wants to do a "this isn't really jazz, but I think you might like it anyway because there's some connection", bring that on too.

I view these tests as a wonderful opportunity to hear some stuff that other people are into that I'm not too familiar with, or am totally unfamiliar with. If I don't like, it, well hell, what did it cost me other than a few minutes out a day? And if I should get my coattails pulled to something really interesting, well, HOORAY!

Jazz is a big music with global scope in both its influences and its exponents. Nobody's going to like it all. But that's life!

Edited December 7, 2003 by JSngry

[.:.impossible]

I agree. I was actually considering including a cut or two from my collection that I don't necessarily understand the attraction. Get a different point of view from 30+ others. Obviously, everything included in these blindfold tests, because of the audience, is going to be at least tangential to jazz, but I don't think we really need to govern this thing.

[JSngry]

I was actually considering including a cut or two from my collection that I don't necessarily understand the attraction. Get a different point of view from 30+ others.

That's a pretty intriguing notion for a theme - "Things That Everybody But Me Seem To Like. Help Me Understand The Attraction".

Seriously. The discussion could be quite interesting.

[king ubu]

Hmm. My feeling is that the only tunes that should go on the disc are ones that make the compiler think "Oh, man, these guys have got to hear this!!" Other than that, I can't think of any limitations, although I'll admit, a disc of the latest death metal bands would certainly disappoint...

[king ubu]

My hope is that I'll be exposed to artists I know and artists I'd never heard before. I figure if someone on this board likes something enough to put it on their Blindfold CD, then that track must have some merit and I'm going to listen with an open mind.

That's what I thought about when I started to look through my rarities (broadcasts) bag to get some ideas what I could include in my upcoming disc (some months to go; I don't even have a CD-burner yet).

Sure, put in some rare recording by some well-known artist is a good thing, too! (Hey Rooster, I'll have some nice stuff for you... you know, from the guy whose music sounds like a flushing toilet )

I guess at least parts of my BT will provoce reactions as Jim's does (I have not yet received the CDs, but I look forward to them very much!)

Jim's explanation re. his inclusion of non-jazz material is good with me.

(only I wonder what that "artist whose "status" as a jazz artist is a matter of constant debate" could be - Jim, you did not include some Kenny G, didn't you? )

ubu

[marcoliv]

i fully agree with Jazzmoose on this.

when my time arrives (and it´s gonna be long i´m sure) i will not have obscurities to include but you will get the stuff that really put me in orbit

jazz means freedom for me so let´s keep this spirit on the blindfold test

Marcus Oliveira

[mikeweil]

jazz means freedom for me so let´s keep this spirit on the blindfold test

[RDK]

I think those who are annoyed by material that is not jazz

That someone could actually be annoyed by material that is not jazz frightens me...

I guess if you bought a disc expecting a certain type of music and the artist didn't deliver then one could be disappointed or annoyed, but half the point of these BFTs is the element of discovery/surprise. It's fun (at least for me) to draw connections between the music, contemplate the "bigger picture," and just maybe try to understand just a little bit better the compiler's overall musical tastes.

[RDK]

In other words, while I don't want to see discs made up of pop music, rock, classical, or opera - this is a jazz-themed blindfold test after all - I'd prefer fewer specific rules in place to limit the content.

Now that I think about it, the only problem with Jim giving us 2 discs instead of the "usual" 1 and opening up the definitional boundaries a bit is that it makes it harder to figure out who's who and what's what. With Dan's disc, for example, one could generally narrow one's guessing to the funkier piano/organ/sax combos that he favors, but by expanding the genre parameters our choices expand tremendously.

[chuckyd4]

I agree RDK... I remember one time I bought a NHOP disc that turned out to be Danish folk songs, and was a little non-plussed, but I think that's the only time I returned something cause it wasn't what I expected. I usually like it if it's at least a little different than what I would have thought before hearing it.

It's hard for me to imagine anyone digging jazz (with all of its freedom and variety) and getting upset when something steps over the magic line. I know there are people out there who feel this way, it just makes me wonder what it was they liked about jazz in the first place.

[Chuck Nessa]

It's hard for me to imagine anyone digging jazz (with all of its freedom and variety) and getting upset when something steps over the magic line

Since they misunderstand the concept, some "jazz fans" abhor freedom and variety. Can't 'splain it myself, unless they find comfort in a small, cozy world.

[Chuck Nessa]

I intended starting a discussion, not the end. Please, those of you in small rooms - respond and put me in my place.

"One Sound", please start the discussion.

[John B]

jazz means freedom for me so let´s keep this spirit on the blindfold test

Marcus Oliveira

well said. the compiler should put whatever the hell they want on the disc and if I don't like it I'll say so in my review.

[couw]

I intended starting a discussion, not the end. Please, those of you in small rooms - respond and put me in my place.

"One Sound", please start the discussion.

Chuck, I'd love to help you out here, but I'm afraid I am too happy that Jim broke the ice. I had been thinking about an introduction to my upcoming test, some words of warning and advice, but Jim said it better (as usual) and his compilation seems even more controversial than mine will ever be. Go for the controversy I say, it's part of the essence of the music we (or I) call jazz.