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Sam Rivers Mosaic this November


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I saw the Rivers/Holland/Altschul band in Chicago around 1977. Talked to Dave and Barry (at the club) about making a record with Warne Marsh (they were up for it but thought Warne wouldn't agree). Warne did not disagree but it never happened, damn it! Mentioned this to Barry a couple of years ago and he remembered.

Chuck

I like this idea. What was the concept, from your perspective? I'm imagining standards approached similar to the

Marsh/Mitchell duets?

The idea was for Warne to play whatever he wanted.

that makes good sense.

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Sam Rivers/Dave Holland: Duo Vo. 1 on Improvising Artists is a very good one. Rivers plays tenor on one side & soprano on the other. I've never cared for Vol. 2 as much - Rivers on flute and piano - but perhaps that's just me. I do recommend Vol. 1 though.

I like both, but a full Rivers concert experience usually encompasses all 4 instruments. I think I prefer Sam on tenor, flute, soprano and piano in that order, but he is a good piano player (as is Ari Brown, another great tenor).

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Well don't you think it's high time......the first Big-box(4cds or more) piano-trio offering in the history of Mosaic(The Herbie Nichols set was 3CDs).....

Actually, there have been a handful of others:

5 CD Teddy Wilson

7 CD Oscar Peterson (okay, one of those CDs was quartet)

and the mother of all trio sets:

18 CD Nat King Cole

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I'd have to agree. I have no interest in free jazz Braxton or Threadgill, and if the Rivers set is anything beyond mild avant-garde, it'll be a no-go for me as well.

That makes two of us. Let's form a club? We'll call it the 'Let's Throw It Overboard Without Pausing To Seek Counsel From The Learned Club' :crazy:

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I'd have to agree. I have no interest in free jazz Braxton or Threadgill, and if the Rivers set is anything beyond mild avant-garde, it'll be a no-go for me as well.

That makes two of us. Let's form a club? We'll call it the 'Let's Throw It Overboard Without Pausing To Seek Counsel From The Learned Club' :crazy:

LOL! I obviously don't have the ear for free jazz (yet). In high school we used to call such a cacophony of sounds "warming up".

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I'd have to agree. I have no interest in free jazz Braxton or Threadgill, and if the Rivers set is anything beyond mild avant-garde, it'll be a no-go for me as well.

That makes two of us. Let's form a club? We'll call it the 'Let's Throw It Overboard Without Pausing To Seek Counsel From The Learned Club' :crazy:

Geez, this from a fella who has a custom made box for his Japan import Pink Floyd collections! The Sam Rivers would do you some good -- at the very least, stretch out that stereo of yours. ;)

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Sam Rivers may play some music that stretches the boundaries of tonality and group interplay, but keep in mind that he's also someone who knows the tradition quite well and is of basically the same generation as Ornette, Coltrane, and Cecil. He's one of the greatest improvisers on the planet. Mosaic has also done a Sam Rivers Blue Note box - very inside-outside stuff - which should be considered in the context of this set as well. Again, Rivers has a lot more going on than just free blowing.

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Rivers has a lot more going on than just free blowing.

Just check out his solos on that early Tadd Dameron date (from the Blue Note Lost Sessions). Very "in the bag."

I hope this set is a Mosaic big box, but I'll be happy if it's a Mosaic Select — as long as it actually comes out! Here's the purchase I'm imagining for myself later this year (or some time next year):

• Lucky Thompson Mosaic Select

• John Carter/Bobby Bradford Mosaic Select

• Sam Rivers Trio Mosaic

I'll probably add the Akiyoshi/Tabackin set as well. Whew. Time to raise some dough. Feel free to buy my discs in the Offering forum! ^_^

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I'd have to agree. I have no interest in free jazz Braxton or Threadgill, and if the Rivers set is anything beyond mild avant-garde, it'll be a no-go for me as well.

That makes two of us. Let's form a club? We'll call it the 'Let's Throw It Overboard Without Pausing To Seek Counsel From The Learned Club' :crazy:

Geez, this from a fella who has a custom made box for his Japan import Pink Floyd collections! The Sam Rivers would do you some good -- at the very least, stretch out that stereo of yours. ;)

Okay, okay...but if I don't like it, I'm spitting it out at you! :g

Baby-Take-Medicine2.jpg

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Mosaic operates in a way that doesn't expect every boxed-set buyer to love everything they put out, though they do hope that jazz buyers trust them and I'm willing to bet that because of Mosaic, hardcore jazz buyers are much more varied in their tastes than they might be if the company did not exist. I'm willing to take a chance and trust that something will be good/interesting if Mosaic put it out, even if I'm unfamiliar with the music/artist that's contained in a given set.

Sam Rivers is a good bet, as are Threadgill and Braxton. Now, if it were the Complete Fawe Street recordings of A.R. Penck, I'd probably be telling most of y'all to pass...

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It's one thing not to like it. It's another thing altogether to not know the difference between real playing & warming up.

Personal taste is never anything to have to defend. But personal taste and ignorance are hardly the same thing...

Right?

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It's one thing not to like it. It's another thing altogether to not know the difference between real playing & warming up.

Personal taste is never anything to have to defend. But personal taste and ignorance are hardly the same thing...

Right?

The lightening rod says "right".

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Sam Rivers may play some music that stretches the boundaries of tonality and group interplay, but keep in mind that he's also someone who knows the tradition quite well and is of basically the same generation as Ornette, Coltrane, and Cecil. He's one of the greatest improvisers on the planet. Mosaic has also done a Sam Rivers Blue Note box - very inside-outside stuff - which should be considered in the context of this set as well. Again, Rivers has a lot more going on than just free blowing.

I heard Rivers and his trio about 5 or 6 years ago in concert. It was a very stimulating show, free - yes, but structrued too, with a sense of direction and purpose so that it never seemed like just free blowing.

Rivers toured with Dizzy Gillespie, back in the mid' 80's, I believe. I recall that Diz was quoted as saying something like "He (Sam) knows the changes better than anyone."

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I would have to agree with you... Lord knows if ANYONE else put out 7 CD's of Bing Crosby... I would just kept on clicking the mouse....

Mosaic operates in a way that doesn't expect every boxed-set buyer to love everything they put out, though they do hope that jazz buyers trust them and I'm willing to bet that because of Mosaic, hardcore jazz buyers are much more varied in their tastes than they might be if the company did not exist. I'm willing to take a chance and trust that something will be good/interesting if Mosaic put it out, even if I'm unfamiliar with the music/artist that's contained in a given set.

Sam Rivers is a good bet, as are Threadgill and Braxton. Now, if it were the Complete Fawe Street recordings of A.R. Penck, I'd probably be telling most of y'all to pass...

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It's one thing not to like it. It's another thing altogether to not know the difference between real playing & warming up.

Personal taste is never anything to have to defend. But personal taste and ignorance are hardly the same thing...

Right?

Yes, I agree I have an untrained and "ignorant" ear for this style of jazz. I hope one day I can say otherwise. Truly, I do.

I've got a long way to go. I don't even "get" Charles Mingus, if you'll forgive me.

I know, I know. Shameful! :crazy::ph34r:

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No, not at all. What would be shameful would if you claimed that it was all noise or that Mingus couldn't play, or something like that.

Not "understanding", that's are damn near universal human trait in some form or fashion. So, too, is derisively dismissing that which one does not understand in terms that imply that one does indeed understand it. The former is unavoidable, not so the latter.

A "sounds like" B "to me", hell, there's no real argument against that. A "is" B, though, not so sound.

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Sam Rivers may play some music that stretches the boundaries of tonality and group interplay, but keep in mind that he's also someone who knows the tradition quite well and is of basically the same generation as Ornette, Coltrane, and Cecil. He's one of the greatest improvisers on the planet. Mosaic has also done a Sam Rivers Blue Note box - very inside-outside stuff - which should be considered in the context of this set as well. Again, Rivers has a lot more going on than just free blowing.

Oh yeah, one of the things that makes him so compelling to me. He came out of that great late 1940s/early 50s Boston jazz scene. Weizen, have you ever checked out an ancient Night Lights show I did (waaaaay back in the day, only the 3rd or 4th one I'd ever done) called A Brief Convergence: Miles Davis and Sam Rivers in 1964? You might enjoy Sam in that context (the show also uses a couple of tracks from the Blue Note/Mosaic box).

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Oh yeah, one of the things that makes him so compelling to me. He came out of that great late 1940s/early 50s Boston jazz scene. Weizen, have you ever checked out an ancient Night Lights show I did (waaaaay back in the day, only the 3rd or 4th one I'd ever done) called A Brief Convergence: Miles Davis and Sam Rivers in 1964? You might enjoy Sam in that context (the show also uses a couple of tracks from the Blue Note/Mosaic box).

I know he goes way back with Roy Haynes and Jaki Byard and was brought to Miles by Tony Williams. It would be fun if some recordings surfaced of Sam playing with Charlie Mariano.

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Oh yeah, one of the things that makes him so compelling to me. He came out of that great late 1940s/early 50s Boston jazz scene. Weizen, have you ever checked out an ancient Night Lights show I did (waaaaay back in the day, only the 3rd or 4th one I'd ever done) called A Brief Convergence: Miles Davis and Sam Rivers in 1964? You might enjoy Sam in that context (the show also uses a couple of tracks from the Blue Note/Mosaic box).

I know he goes way back with Roy Haynes and Jaki Byard and was brought to Miles by Tony Williams. It would be fun if some recordings surfaced of Sam playing with Charlie Mariano.

It has never been officially released, but copies of this item from Rick Lopez' sessionography do circulate among collectors:

83.10.08 • Sam Rivers Quartet [Audience Recording]

October 8, 1983 / Leverkusen, Germany

1. unknown title [9:13]

2. unknown title [27:12]

3. unknown title [7:06]

[43:32]

Sam Rivers (tenor sax, soprano sax, flute, piano)

Charlie Mariano (alto sax, soprano sax, flute)

Santi DeBriano (bass)

Steve McCraven (drums)

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It has never been officially released, but copies of this item from Rick Lopez' sessionography do circulate among collectors:

83.10.08 • Sam Rivers Quartet [Audience Recording]

October 8, 1983 / Leverkusen, Germany

1. unknown title [9:13]

2. unknown title [27:12]

3. unknown title [7:06]

[43:32]

Sam Rivers (tenor sax, soprano sax, flute, piano)

Charlie Mariano (alto sax, soprano sax, flute)

Santi DeBriano (bass)

Steve McCraven (drums)

Interesting--I was thinking Boston early '50s. But this would be more intersting because both were well into their mature styles (Mariano's signature sound I think first appears about the time he recorded with Mingus--his stuff with Shelly Manne is moving there, but the earliest stuff is very different).

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