Dan Gould Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 As my rather harsh reaction to certain elements of Jim's test has triggered some discussion about the "boudaries" of jazz, etc., I'm wondering what people are getting out of these things, and what they are hoping to get (aside from cool compilation disc(s)!) Are you looking to discover mindblowing connections between seemingly disparate music? Or just good tunes you didn't know about and may lead you to buy music you wouldn't otherwise have heard? Myself (and I can hear Chuck getting ready to slam me as I write), I am mostly hoping for exposure to music I don't know but would enjoy. I don't think I have the acute hearing to pick up on the things that others may find, but I do hope to hear good music I haven't heard before. A perfect example is Jim R.'s choice of the Guaraldi track. I haven't tried old Vince aside from the Peanuts music, and so this was a great introduction which will definitely lead to a purchase-I'm just trying to keep my buying down right now. I am more than willing to hear music outside of my comfort zone on these things but I don't anticipate radical re-working of my jazz interests. And its not because I'm shut off or rigid-I spent the early years of my jazzing exploring all sorts of styles, including many of the artists on Jim S.'s disc (if the guesses so far are close), and after 15 years of listening to this music, I think I know what I like. So what do you get out of the Blindfold test? New music Interesting juxtapositions free tunes or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 all of the above. And above all well-informed guesses and discussions as well. The concept of listening without any notion who's playing certainly also objectifies criticism; or discolours it, I should probably say. It's a good thing to wash your ears from preconceived notions about certain players and give the music a fresh listening. In previous BFTs I have been visiting my own collection, cross-checking and re-evaluating it, finding new ways to listen to old stuff. These tests make your ears grow. On more than one level that is. It opens the ears for new players, new styles, new connections. In compiling my own disk I turned over large parts of my collection I do not necessarily visit that often or with the particular concept I had in mind. Making compilations is always a great way to get to know the music on your shelves. I have certainly also got a lot of friendly frustration (like "Damn! I know this tune, but crap if I can call it now! Damn!") and excellent vibes filling my head and living room. Dance anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Two things: exposure to more variety than I would ever reach on my own (and hopefully the discovery of new "can't live without" music!), and the chance to listen without my brain trying to file the music before I even hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 I'd agree with the second and third paragraphs of Dan's initial post. I'm looking for music that I might enjoy but which I haven't heard and which I might enjoy having the whole album to. In this respect, the Continuum CD of Tadd Dameron comes to mind. I also realize that I'm going to be exposed to a lot of other music that people really like but which I may or may not be interested in. For example, in Jim S' case there's some that I like, others I don't and wouldn't be interested in pursuing in. In addition, I'll be getting exposure to music that I may normally not get to hear or because of budget limitations not want to experiment with getting. For example, somewhere along the way someone is going to stick some Brotzmann on a cd. I don't think he appeals to me but I'll give it a shot. There have been lots of things I've heard initially that I didn't like and then later on remarked (like Jim's buddy ), "this might be good!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man with the Golden Arm Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Well, thanks to Dan and now to JSangry (my first test) for this opportunity. It drives me absolutely nuts that I can walk into the shop at the studio where I work at any moment and hear either oldies, not so old disco or a rare something urban, and for some reason am able to sing along with most all of it! Turning kindred ears on to something extraordinary is what it's all about. One of the reasons I think we all frequent this board. Being a kid and running home from the drug store with my neighbor to crack open a new Paul Revere and the Raiders album to now being able to burn high quality discs, send them around the world and let those kindred ears have at it...a beautiful thing! I've been spinning Jim's discs constantly for the past two days just reveling (with open minded snobbery) in the fact that all around me are so excited about the new Dave Matthews CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 I agree with much of what has been said, and will add that I am interested in hearing the songs Organissimo regulars would choose since I have come to value your opinions highly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Storer Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 I'm finding these blindfolds a really nice way to get recommendations from the compilers, but not just any recommendations. People are always recommending one thing or another, but this is like a glimpse into what André Malraux famously referred to as the "imaginary museum" we all have in our minds, collections of things we feel deserve to be known not just because of their intrinsic quality, but because they mean something about, in this case, what we as "imaginary museum" curators think jazz is all about. It's a special way of trading our in-depth understanding of the whole shebang. We're looking into one another's jazz souls! Yikes! It's also a great way to embark upon the bracing enterprise of relying on one's ears. You learn how much you rely on hearing things in context: knowing before you listen who it is, when it is, and so on. Without those crutches you open your mind to creative listening: what do I really think of this? What connections can I really make between this and other music, just based on what I'm hearing? It makes an honest man out of you. Or woman. (Wait a minute - are there any woman posters here?) Finally, I find I can really benefit from the insights in other people's remarks. I find myself thinking, yes! I hadn't noticed that! Or else, "What the hey? Is he listening to the same tune I listened to?" and then going back to listen again and hear it in another light. And of course, the tunes are FREE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 (edited) I do hope to hear good music I haven't heard before. That is what I'm looking for, and what I tried to provide. The "themes" and whatnot were secondary to "is this good?" THAT was the first consideration, then I went from there into conceptualization, sequencing, etc. But I included nothing that I didn't think was good music that some fellow jazzheads might find interesting. If you disagree, fine. To each their own, and no hard feelings whatsoever. But if the purpose of these tests is to be nothing more than a reinforcement of what everybody more or less already knows in terms of styles and such (we may not know all the players in the hardbop/soul/etc. genres, but we all know what the basic sound and concept of the music is, so it's no longer a matter of discovery as much as it is further exploration), then we might as well just form a trading circle and be done with it! Not that we haven't already... The tests are an excellent opportunity to TRULY discover. I'm waiting for somebody to do an all-Euro test - I'll fall on my ass on that one. I wish somebody would do an all pre-bop test - I'd screw that one up royally too. Same with a modern big-band test. And in all of these areas, the odds are good that I'd not like a fair percentage of the material included (especially the third one). But that's ok, because the very nature of the blindfold test is NOT to guess, it's to give and get totally subjective opinions uncolored by preconceptions. Of course, if the compiler wishes to focus on that which is more or less familair to everybody, that's cool too. I'll take some of that action too. I certainly haven't heard it all, nor do I know it all. Turn me on to something I've not yet discovered, and I'm a happy man. And if I actually like it, I'm a VERY happy man. Besides, free tunes is free tunes. Dan, I'm sorry if my selections left you (or anybody else) unhappy, but if you've read my posts over the years, you know that I have a lot of musical/jazzical interests besides what is mostly discussed here, as do many others (it's been very interesting to read how some people really like certain cuts and others really detest them, and the results haven't always been what I would have expected!). I don't know what you were expecting me to come up with, but it certainly wasn't going to be a selection of music focusing on any one era or genre. That's not me, and as somebody said somewhere in one of these discussions, these tests should provide a snapshot of who the compiler is musically - what they like, and what they think is special. I did exactly that, although by no means comprehensively. Not even two discs could cover that. So count your blessings! Face it - jazz is a huge music with an audience and a history and an audience that spans generations, cultures, ethnicities, nationalities, age groups, you name it. Hoping that everybody who has music that they think is special enough to be shared in a manner such as this is going to come up with stuff that's mostly all in the same bag is futile, and I think that's how it should be if it's going to remain honest. Do we really want this to be a "commercial" gig, where the object is to please everybody as much as possible even if it means selling short, or do we want it to be a thing that is wide open, where the opportunity to be aggravated might be high, but so is the opportunity for very pleasant surprises? I for one want it to be the latter. I'm signed up for #26. If anybody thinks they're not going to like what I might come up with, don't sign up for it, simple as that. No hard feelings - to think that I (or anybody) am going to suddenly develop a dislike for a person just because they don't like the same music as I do is just plain wack. I can tell you that it won't be anything like #4, because that one is over with, done did THAT, time for something different. HOW different, I don't have a clue, because that's a loooooong way off. But I can promise everybody that it won't be in any one bag. Which could mean anything, like I said, I don't know. It will depend on what I'm feeling at the time. But if it will soothe any "ruffled feathers", I'll promise right now to include at least ONE example each of a mainstream bop, swinging, tenor/organ thing by a player that everybody's at least HEARD of, a recording by a legend of hard bop, a thing that has been reissued by the Blue Note family but is no longer in-print, and a player that's been featured in a Mosaic set. Even though I did that on THIS test... Edited December 10, 2003 by JSngry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 and to add to that: if any one single person has a serious positive mindPHUCK because of a track included, it would in my opinion be worth a whole lot of dissatisfied customers. If you don't like it you can skip it, if you do like it and it's somerthing completely new, and possibly something that really makes you flip out BIG TIME. Now, that's truly priceless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 I'm finding these blindfolds a really nice way to get recommendations from the compilers, but not just any recommendations. People are always recommending one thing or another, but this is like a glimpse into what André Malraux famously referred to as the "imaginary museum" we all have in our minds, collections of things we feel deserve to be known not just because of their intrinsic quality, but because they mean something about, in this case, what we as "imaginary museum" curators think jazz is all about. It's a special way of trading our in-depth understanding of the whole shebang. We're looking into one another's jazz souls! Yikes! It's also a great way to embark upon the bracing enterprise of relying on one's ears. You learn how much you rely on hearing things in context: knowing before you listen who it is, when it is, and so on. Without those crutches you open your mind to creative listening: what do I really think of this? What connections can I really make between this and other music, just based on what I'm hearing? It makes an honest man out of you. Or woman. (Wait a minute - are there any woman posters here?) Finally, I find I can really benefit from the insights in other people's remarks. I find myself thinking, yes! I hadn't noticed that! Or else, "What the hey? Is he listening to the same tune I listened to?" and then going back to listen again and hear it in another light. And of course, the tunes are FREE. I cannot say it any better than this. Of course, the idea for me is to hear tunes with no names attached. Everything I put on the stereo has a label and a name; so its fun to be the explorer once more. Regarding Jim S' comments: Jim put on these discs anything you damned well want (you did anyway!) There is no need to promise one mainstream song. That's ridiculous. I'm open to just about anything, though I'd prefer it have some bearing on jazz. I'm not keen on the concept discs. Everyone should just compile stuff that they like from all periods or whatever. I'd be very bored if it was all pre-bop or big band. That would be boring, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 and to add to that: if any one single person has a serious positive mindPHUCK because of a track included, it would in my opinion be worth a whole lot of dissatisfied customers. If you don't like it you can skip it, if you do like it and it's somerthing completely new, and possibly something that really makes you flip out BIG TIME. Now, that's truly priceless. Again, I have to agree with this. There's going to be stuff that I'm sure I'm going to completely hate on future discs. But what the hell I'll give it a listen, once anyway, to see if I can expand my horizons. Heck, I've only been a jazz fan for about 5 years so I don't want to me so narrow as to channel out anything that could be new or different from what I've been listening to. These tests seem to be segueing from this is a blindfold test to this is what I like, which I think is fine. My idea of jazz is probably a lot different than John's (couw) but I'll give it a listen. I'm not sure we should get involved with a debate as to what is jazz, since it's all subjective. But rest assured that when my turn comes, it'll probably be heavy on bop, some swing and hard bop. Those are just my predilections, my interests, what drew me and what still draws me to jazz and you'll get my orientations, just like John will give us his orientations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 I don't know that I'm really "looking for" anything in this endeavor. That would tend to increase the odds of being disappointed/let down, and I'm already so lucky to have so much music (and access to more) that I'm not taking the "looking for" aspect of this too seriously, I guess. Me, I really enjoy games, puzzles, brain-teasers... even trivia, if it's relevant to some of my interests. So, from that standpoint, I guess I WAS "looking for" something from the start- FUN. And I'm having it. Hey- if I nailed (pardon the expression) Rosemary Clooney on Jim's test (still a pretty big "if", I know), that alone would keep my ego pumped for weeks! I knew this exercise was going to give me the opportunity to share some of my favorite stuff with a bunch of fellow jazz fans, and aside from the aforementioned motivation to have a good time, this was really the major factor in my decision to participate. Knowing that I was going to be getting to hear a lot of discs (and knowing that I would very likely find an occasional gold nugget) containing the favorites of others... that's icing on the cake. I don't really expect at this stage of my life to be discovering tons of new music/musicians that are going to knock me out, but that's okay. All it takes is a few of those nuggets to sustain my enthusiasm for the continued hunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted December 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Dan, I'm sorry if my selections left you (or anybody else) unhappy, but if you've read my posts over the years, you know that I have a lot of musical/jazzical interests besides what is mostly discussed here, as do many others ... I don't know what you were expecting me to come up with, but it certainly wasn't going to be a selection of music focusing on any one era or genre. That's not me, Hoping that everybody who has music that they think is special enough to be shared in a manner such as this is going to come up with stuff that's mostly all in the same bag is futile, and I think that's how it should be if it's going to remain honest. Do we really want this to be a "commercial" gig, where the object is to please everybody as much as possible even if it means selling short, or do we want it to be a thing that is wide open, where the opportunity to be aggravated might be high, but so is the opportunity for very pleasant surprises? I for one want it to be the latter. I'm signed up for #26. If anybody thinks they're not going to like what I might come up with, don't sign up for it, simple as that. No hard feelings - to think that I (or anybody) am going to suddenly develop a dislike for a person just because they don't like the same music as I do is just plain wack. But if it will soothe any "ruffled feathers", I'll promise right now to include at least ONE example each of a mainstream bop, swinging, tenor/organ thing by a player that everybody's at least HEARD of, a recording by a legend of hard bop, a thing that has been reissued by the Blue Note family but is no longer in-print, and a player that's been featured in a Mosaic set. Jim, you shouldn't have the impression that I was "unhappy" with your discs. Just because your tastes are wider than mine-I mean, I'm not pissed off at hearing Threadgill or Braxton or whoever. I just happend to learn many years ago that, among many, those are two artists (assuming they were on the test as some have guessed) I don't get into. I think that my Don't Know, Don't Care (DKDC ) shorthand was taken as an indication that I was offended or annoyed. Rather, I was simply hearing styles that I am not fond of. Is that so wrong? After all, we're all entitled to our likes, as well as our dislikes. So, don't promise anything on your next test, and I for one promise that I'll sign up for it when the time comes. After all, we've shared enough music that I just know you've got good stuff to put on one of these! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 we've shared enough music that I just know you've got good stuff to put on one of these! Now THAT is the kind of good-natured ribbing (with a strong subliminal message of bitterness) that I love to see here on the board! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Cool. I was just kinda concerned that perhaps you WERE offended in some way because you started two threads in the wake of BFT #4 about what should or shouldn't be included, and I kinda thought that you were riled ala Hardbop and were using them to express your indignation or some such. But if such was not the case, well, as Emily Litella said... FWIW, antagonism of any recipeient was most assuredly not my motivation in my selection. I knew that not everybody would like everything, and that some material would prove downright unenjoyable to some recipients (and that has proven to be the case with almost every selection, regardless of style!), yourself included. But I certainly wasn't trying to piss anybody off by their inclusion. If THAT had been a factor, I'd have included Arthur Doyle. Hell, he pisses ME off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Are you looking to discover mindblowing connections between seemingly disparate music? Or just good tunes you didn't know about and may lead you to buy music you wouldn't otherwise have heard? Myself (and I can hear Chuck getting ready to slam me as I write), I am mostly hoping for exposure to music I don't know but would enjoy. I don't think I have the acute hearing to pick up on the things that others may find, but I do hope to hear good music I haven't heard before. Yes, and yes. This is my first go around in the blindfold test thing, and must admit Sangrey has me stumped big time, of course I expected no less from him. Some of the tracks are not for me, at least not now, but others have me very much intrigued and anxious to find out who and what they are. Overall, I was looking for a learning experience, and I think that is what I am getting. I'm still not sure footed enough to even take a stab at some of the tracks, but am learning from the guesses of others. I have a feeling if I was do to one it would probably be a slam dunk for most of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 I can hear Chuck getting ready to slam me as I write Nah, I'm saving my energy in case we have the much discussed Organissimo "get together". I'll duct tape you to a tabletop and play Evan Parker and Johnny Dodds for a couple of hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted December 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 I can hear Chuck getting ready to slam me as I write Nah, I'm saving my energy in case we have the much discussed Organissimo "get together". I'll duct tape you to a tabletop and play Evan Parker and Johnny Dodds for a couple of hours. Will that be simultaneously, or will I not be able to tell the difference? And if you'll look at the get-together thread, it looks like we're circling around St. Louis, possibly in June, so you might get your shot. Of course, it might behoove me to stop losing weight between now and then, it might be tougher for you to pin me down on that table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Not if he brings Evan Parker along. That cat ain't no stringbean! Although, if Dodds shows up, you'd be really safe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 The last few posts point into a direction that seems right to me: I wanna have some fun, 'cause I simply LOVE Blindfold Tests - they're always the first I read when I get a new copy of down beat or Jazz Times. I do that with a good friend regularly. (And I pass the disc on to him when I'm done.) I KNOW I will have fun just because I love it so much. And everything I heard so far is interesting in some way or another. Getting to know stuff I don't know about, yeah, testing myself, I can second all statements above. I can get something out of every type of music, and speaking frankly, I sometimes think this board can take a look or two over the Blue Note fence ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Although, if Dodds shows up, you'd be really safe... You're having your meeting in Vermont then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyhersom Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 The challenge is the biggest part of the fun. Second comes discovering music, including music you own but haven't checked out in a while. Really cool segues are, well, really cool segues and enhance #2. For some reason this has captured my interest in a way that Album of the Week just couldn't quite do. I'm looking forward to my turn at the wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:.impossible Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 I'll tell you what I'm looking for... the answers! Give 'em up Jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 The Album of the Week is cool, though less interesting because I often don't have the disc that is featured to listen to. Though I have to say that many of the choices have been items in my collection. Sometimes I think that the "what are you listening to now" thread is a secret contest to see if posters can name the most obscure disc they own This newbie is most often listening to "the usual suspects" ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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