Archie Shepp

[P.L.M]

The sixties SHEPP was a major figure in the NEW THING movement.

And all the music he has recorded at that time, as leader or sideman, is worth a listening.

From this period my favorite albums are FOUR FOR TRANE, the incredible THE MAGIC OF JUJU and the first (LP) side of THE WAY AHEAD.

The blues who opens that side, DAMN IF I KNOW (THE STROLLER) it's an absolute masterpiece who still rise the hair of my arms when I'm listenning to it.

Too bad that they fade away the end.

Somehow I was hopping that the CD will have the "complete" version of the piece, alas...

From his european records, I will keep only LIVE AT DONAUESCHINGEN MUSIC FESTIVAL, his best live ever (far better than LIVE IN SAN FRANCISCO IMO), BLASE and STEAM (but I'm maybe partial with this one because the first time I've seen SHEPP was with this trio - CAMERON BROWN on bass & the great BEAVER HARRIS on drums.) And the concert was astonishing.

I never like TROUBLE IN MIND and his follow up and I don't like neither his duo with WALDRON (on CD) or with AMINA CLAUDINE MEYERS (seen live.)

Edited July 16, 2004 by P.L.M

[GregK]

I like what he played with Zappa on You Can't do That on Stage Anymore Vol 4-very cool that Zappa had him walk on like that. Sorry to say I know nothing else about his work outside of Ascension

[Brandon Burke]

Just picked the above mentioned Live in San Francisco (Impulse, 1966)

...and I do like it!

Your post inspired me to break this record ( B-) ) out for the first time in a long while. It's a good'n alright....

[vibes]

Just picked the above mentioned Live in San Francisco (Impulse, 1966)

...and I do like it!

Your post inspired me to break this record ( B-) ) out for the first time in a long while. It's a good'n alright....

I pulled this one out and played it tonight as well. Mrs. vibes didn't even get upset. First time that's ever happened with Shepp on the stereo.

Also played "On This Night," and have "Four For Trane" going right now. It's been too long since I listened to a Shepp record. His 60's Impulse stuff is great.

[Alexander Hawkins]

I also hear quite a lot of a Ben Webster sensibility in his playing. Not just tone-wise, either, although I think this is the most explicit connection.

[Nate Dorward]

Hm, people really like that Live in San Francisco one? I got it a couple years ago & have listened to it several times but it's now sitting in the "trade/sell" stack. Rudd's very good on it, & I like Shepp's tone, but other than that it seems to me a pretty muzzy album. The bassists are positively annoying (one of them spends half his time playing the same four note descending figure over & over).

[catesta]

Didn't see it mentioned on this thread, but is 'Day Dream" worth looking for ?

If so, is it even possible to find?

[B. Goren.]

This one is great:

I think it was reissued a few months ago.

Edited March 4, 2005 by B. Goren.

[JohnJ]

I really like Shepp's more recent releases, I just bought the Venus CD 'True Ballads' which is very nice.

[king ubu]

Picked up a 1980 disc of Siegfried Kessler's (pianist), called "Invitation" (Marge/Futura/Terrones), on which Archie guests. He appears on an extended version of the title tune, playing beautifully, and on one of those Golson titles (Along Came Betty? The new Marge website is blocked on my work computer, don't ask me why...).

[Clunky]

Trumpet in my soul is a turkey

[JSngry]

Trumpet in my soul is a turkey

I'll disagree, but respectfully so.

The editing and the mix/EQ-ing are piss-poor, however.

[Bright Moments]

just spun the fifth of may with Jasper van't hoff.

me like!!

[ep1str0phy]

Trumpet in my soul is a turkey

I'll disagree, but respectfully so.

The editing and the mix/EQ-ing are piss-poor, however.

I agree--I've always found it enjoyable, but it's certainly devoid of the fireworks immanent to the Impulse! material (or even the BYG and America stuff). It's interesting to catalogue the devolution of Shepp's revolutionary rhetoric at this juncture--the sentiments are the same, but the music is not. Regardless, the band is top notch and the material--for what it is--is played quite well. Not a favorite, but not bad by any means.

[alocispepraluger102]

Trumpet in my soul is a turkey

I'll disagree, but respectfully so.

The editing and the mix/EQ-ing are piss-poor, however.

I agree--I've always found it enjoyable, but it's certainly devoid of the fireworks immanent to the Impulse! material (or even the BYG and America stuff). It's interesting to catalogue the devolution of Shepp's revolutionary rhetoric at this juncture--the sentiments are the same, but the music is not. Regardless, the band is top notch and the material--for what it is--is played quite well. Not a favorite, but not bad by any means.

i lean toward the magic of ju-ju with that great intensity and 5 or 6 drummers.

i am also very partial to his relatively recent billie holiday duo with mal...

Edited May 8, 2006 by alocispepraluger102

[ep1str0phy]

Trumpet in my soul is a turkey

I'll disagree, but respectfully so.

The editing and the mix/EQ-ing are piss-poor, however.

I agree--I've always found it enjoyable, but it's certainly devoid of the fireworks immanent to the Impulse! material (or even the BYG and America stuff). It's interesting to catalogue the devolution of Shepp's revolutionary rhetoric at this juncture--the sentiments are the same, but the music is not. Regardless, the band is top notch and the material--for what it is--is played quite well. Not a favorite, but not bad by any means.

i lean toward the magic of ju-ju with that great intensity and 5 or 6 drummers.

i am also very partial to his relatively recent billie holiday duo with mal...

If you really want to get into it with the Impulse!, I'll say 'On This Night.' Not necessarily my favorite, but it never gets enough love. The personnel is consistently fine (although it shifts from track to track)--some beautiful 'avant' Bobby Hutcherson, fine Rashied Ali, Henry Grimes, etc... the album is appended by a series of trio tracks featuring J.C. Moses and David Izenzon (!--Ornette's trio bassist). Somewhat inconsistently sequenced, but what's good is great.

[alocispepraluger102]

Trumpet in my soul is a turkey

I'll disagree, but respectfully so.

The editing and the mix/EQ-ing are piss-poor, however.

I agree--I've always found it enjoyable, but it's certainly devoid of the fireworks immanent to the Impulse! material (or even the BYG and America stuff). It's interesting to catalogue the devolution of Shepp's revolutionary rhetoric at this juncture--the sentiments are the same, but the music is not. Regardless, the band is top notch and the material--for what it is--is played quite well. Not a favorite, but not bad by any means.

i lean toward the magic of ju-ju with that great intensity and 5 or 6 drummers.

i am also very partial to his relatively recent billie holiday duo with mal...

If you really want to get into it with the Impulse!, I'll say 'On This Night.' Not necessarily my favorite, but it never gets enough love. The personnel is consistently fine (although it shifts from track to track)--some beautiful 'avant' Bobby Hutcherson, fine Rashied Ali, Henry Grimes, etc... the album is appended by a series of trio tracks featuring J.C. Moses and David Izenzon (!--Ornette's trio bassist). Somewhat inconsistently sequenced, but what's good is great.

thanks for the heads up. you are talking about the cd and not the vinyl, arent you.

[ep1str0phy]

Yeah--that's sort of how I came into it. The vinyl sequencing is a little different, although the Hutch tracks (a little over half the album) appear on both versions--they're the meat of the album. The trio cuts are culled from a series of compilations, I believe.

Edited May 8, 2006 by ep1str0phy

[alocispepraluger102]

Yeah--that's sort of how I came into it. The vinyl sequencing is a little different, although the Hutch tracks (a little over half the album) appear on both versions--they're the meat of the album. The trio cuts are culled from a series of compilations, I believe.

does hutch have any other relatively free dates? nothing jumps out at me.

[JSngry]

Trumpet in my soul is a turkey

I'll disagree, but respectfully so.

The editing and the mix/EQ-ing are piss-poor, however.

It's interesting to catalogue the devolution of Shepp's revolutionary rhetoric at this juncture--the sentiments are the same, but the music is not.

I've always semi-interpreted this as a silent assertion on Shepp's part that "the tradition" was always "revolutionary" at root, and that now that the fireworks were over and the sleepers awakened, it was safe to go back inside.

[ep1str0phy]

Yeah--that's sort of how I came into it. The vinyl sequencing is a little different, although the Hutch tracks (a little over half the album) appear on both versions--they're the meat of the album. The trio cuts are culled from a series of compilations, I believe.

does hutch have any other relatively free dates? nothing jumps out at me.

His work with Shepp is probably the 'farthest' out he ever got in a sideman context, but his work (up to the late 60's) was certainly among the freest of the progressive vibes players (the McLean, Dolphy, and Hill material is particularly storied, of course). But he's had his share of 'free-wheeling' leader dates--especially 'Dialogue' and 'Components'.

[ep1str0phy]

Trumpet in my soul is a turkey

I'll disagree, but respectfully so.

The editing and the mix/EQ-ing are piss-poor, however.

It's interesting to catalogue the devolution of Shepp's revolutionary rhetoric at this juncture--the sentiments are the same, but the music is not.

I've always semi-interpreted this as a silent assertion on Shepp's part that "the tradition" was always "revolutionary" at root, and that now that the fireworks were over and the sleepers awakened, it was safe to go back inside.

Perfectly reasonable rationale. My primary issue, though, is that the slide 'back' to tradition is so gradual that it honestly seems (especially on the 70's dates) that Shepp is self-consciously pulling punches--regardless of ideology. Which is not to say that all of it is creatively compromised--I mean, the quintet with Burrell, Harris, etc. is great. It's just that the concessions to a more 'conservative' musical perspective become progressively more evident as the decade progresses. It's arguable, anyway, that there was no 'abrupt' break with 'New Thing' sound--just a slide into post-bop, then bop inflections. The 'tradition' theory certainly explains his present work--and, of course, he's quite capable of playing 'out' when needs be--but there's a whole stretch of back catalogue that smacks of re-conformity.

Edited May 8, 2006 by ep1str0phy

[alocispepraluger102]

Trumpet in my soul is a turkey

I'll disagree, but respectfully so.

The editing and the mix/EQ-ing are piss-poor, however.

It's interesting to catalogue the devolution of Shepp's revolutionary rhetoric at this juncture--the sentiments are the same, but the music is not.

I've always semi-interpreted this as a silent assertion on Shepp's part that "the tradition" was always "revolutionary" at root, and that now that the fireworks were over and the sleepers awakened, it was safe to go back inside.

Perfectly reasonable rationale. My primary issue, though, is that the slide 'back' to tradition is so gradual that it honestly seems (especially on the 70's dates) that Shepp is self-consciously pulling punches--regardless of ideology. Which is not to say that all of it is creatively compromised--I mean, the quintet with Burrell, Harris, etc. is great. It's just that the concessions to a more 'conservative' musical perspective become progressively more evident as the decade progresses. It's arguable, anyway, that there was no 'abrupt' break with 'New Thing' sound--just a slide into post-bop, then bop inflections. The 'tradition' theory certainly explains his present work--and, of course, he's quite capable of playing 'out' when needs be--but there's a whole stretch of back catalogue that smacks of re-conformity.

and likewise pharoah and john handy

[JSngry]

My primary issue, though, is that the slide 'back' to tradition is so gradual that it honestly seems (especially on the 70's dates) that Shepp is self-consciously pulling punches--regardless of ideology...It's just that the concessions to a more 'conservative' musical perspective become progressively more evident as the decade progresses.

Then again, there's always the possibility that Shepp in the 60s had "more pressing priorities" (as he, imo, should have) then getting his change playing together, and that once the smoke cleared, he took a very methodical approach to doing so. He certainly gained fluency as the decade progressed, which in turn would explain his increasingly "conservative" perspective - he now had the chops to tackle this type material with more than "mere" fire and "attitude".

Besides - whatcha gonna do after you burn the house down? You can either live outside for the rest of your life, or you can go about building it back the way you want it. I don't think that Shepp was ever a hardcore "deconstructualist" or anything like that. I really think that he had every intention of being basically a "changes" type player from the git-go. But the passions of the time led him into other areas of more immediate necessities. I'm certainly glad that they did, but I'm equally glad that he went back and took up where he left off.

[Hot Ptah]

I read an interview with Archie Shepp in which he admitted that when he first began his career as a college professor, he did not know the jazz of the 1920s and 1930s and had to learn it to be able to teach it. I wonder if this mid-career immersion in earlier jazz styles had anything to do with his recordings becoming less out there?

One Shepp recording which I think is first rate, and which does not seem to have been mentioned, is "Shepp's Way", his long duo with Charlie Haden on Haden's album "The Golden Number".