Entire male Marsalis family among 2011 NEA Jazz Masters

[Christiern]

Let's see, how can we derail this thread? Oh, yea, I'll just post a silly non-related image and...hmmmmm, let me see, I can get further milage on my O-meter if I do another meaningless post....how about something from YouTube? Yeah, that's what I'll do.

[Guy Berger]

For what it's worth - it gets all of these guys out of the way. So we're not going to get to collectively groan again for Branford and Wynton separately.

[Hardbopjazz]

I'm disappointed that neither Lou Donaldson or Johnny Griffin have ever been recipients. Politics at play...

I agree 100%

[Joe]

Maybe I shouldn't be, but I am surprised to see that Jimmy Giuffre was never honored. Too late now, I suppose.

[Tom Storer]

I don't like the idea of honoring a family as "jazz masters," rather than individuals. If Ellis got it, it would probably be accepted with good grace. If Wynton or Branford got it, there would be loud disagreement, but they've been on the scene for decades and certainly a case could be made. But Delfeayo and Jason share this new "jazz master" title by association alone (they can play, but there's no lack of that in jazz), which taints the whole thing with politics.

It seems like nothing but a publicity operation for the Marsalis "brand." Looking at the list of past recipients, it looks as if none of them were so honored until they were at least in the autumn of their professional life. Of the Marsalises, only Ellis has reached that point, and Jason, the baby, is in his early 30's! I think it harms the credibility of the awards themselves.

[Christiern]

You are absolutely tight, Tom,this decision, obviously a purely political one, makes a mockery of the award. If I had been an earlier winner, I would feel slapped.

[Tom Storer]

Who votes for these things, anyway?

[Christiern]

I tried to look it up, but all I have found is that there is a special panel, but no mention of names. I would imagine that the panel members wish to keep it that way. I recall the look on John Lewis' face when I asked him why he voted to award Wynton a Pulitzer for that awful "Blood On the Fields." He told me that it was a politically-based vote, and shrugged his shoulders.

[Larry Kart]

Not the NEA panel, but here's the jury for the 1997 music Pulitzer, awarded to "Blood On The Fields":

Robert Ward*, composer, Mary Duke Biddle professor of music emeritus, Duke University (chair)

John Harbison*, professor of humanities, M.I.T., Cambridge, MA

John Lewis, composer, musician, New York

Howard Reich, jazz critic, Chicago Tribune

Joseph Schwantner*, professor of music, Eastman School of Music, Rochester, NY

* past Pulitzer Prize winner

[david weiss]

Phil Woods weighs in.....

http://www.philwoods...ead.php?t=43098

To whom it may concern,

I was absolutely thrilled when I was named a 2007 NEA Jazz Master. Just to be considered with musicians like Dizzy Gillespie, Thelonious Monk and Dave Brubeck was beyond my wildest dreams as a young musician coming up through the ranks. But to quote an old standard "The Thrill Is Gone.” I can understand your reluctance to award the NEA Jazz Masters award posthumously; what I can't understand is your naming a whole family as Jazz Masters. It makes no sense musically and as good as the Marsalis family may be, in my mind they are not the equals of the aforementioned giants. I think you have set a ridiculous precedent.

What I find most disturbing is the new Marsalis Family CD (the release date is Aug 24 - ads are already running in the jazz magazines) with the profits going to the “Ellis Marsalis Center for Music.” This smacks of exploiting the NEA to maximize profit. I’m sure it is a worthy cause but find it troublesome. I have been the recipient of NEA largesse when they underwrote our production of my Children’s Suite in New Orleans earlier this year but this was a one-time event that was largely ignored in The Big Easy. As a matter of fact I used a good portion of my $25,000 honorarium to record a CD and DVD as well as present the Suite at our annual Celebration of the Arts (COTA) Jazz Festival.

So as a matter of protest I will not be attending any further NEA Jazz Master events. You have tarnished the value of what was once considered one of America’s greatest symbols of achievement in jazz.

Phil Woods

Edited September 8, 2010 by david weiss

[tranemonk]

I'm not sure I agree with Phil Woods....

and obviously I could live without the shots @ the Marsalises'

Let me ask a simple question...

If they had named the Jones' family (e.g., Elvin, Thad and Hank) posthumously would those of you who are against be as upset????? <_<

I don't think a "bad precedent" has been set... There have numerous great jazz families....

[Big Wheel]

Let me ask a simple question...

If they had named the Jones' family (e.g., Elvin, Thad and Hank) posthumously would those of you who are against be as upset????? <_<

Speaking as someone who doesn't really give a crap about the NEA and thinks Phil Woods's email rather bolsters what I've heard through the grapevine about him (giant douche), you're comparing apples and oranges. The point isn't that naming a whole family per se is ridiculous, it's that the Marsalis family, taken as a whole, doesn't punch its weight compared to past winners.

Elvin: a true giant and innovator, maybe THE defining post-bop drummer

Thad: brilliant writer, the next logical step in big band writing after Ellington

Hank: Criminally underrated, a contender for the best bebop pianist behind Bud (and Monk if you count him as bebop)

Wynton and Branford have been discussed to death and I'll give you them for the sake of argument.

Delfeayo: By all accounts a reasonably good trombone player, but you could probably name a dozen of his generation who are more distinguished

Ellis: to be honest I haven't heard enough of Ellis's music to pass judgment, but I have a hard time believing he'd even be famous outside New Orleans in the year 2010 if it weren't for his kids. Ask any young pianist who didn't grow up in New Orleans who his top 10 influences are on the instrument, I can almost guarantee you Ellis will never make the list. Probably wouldn't even crack the top 20.

Jason: Again, great drummer, extremely talented. But not head and shoulders above a dozen guys his age (or younger).

[AllenLowe]

"Thad: brilliant writer, the next logical step in big band writing after Ellington"

really? Wrote nice, but not in the same league as Ellington; think George Russell, Gil Evans, Julius Hemphill,as the next step (s).

"Hank: Criminally underrated, a contender for the best bebop pianist behind Bud (and Monk if you count him as bebop)"

criminally under-rated? All I read about is how great he was; he was a nice pianist; but don't forget Al Haig, Duke Jordan, George Wallington, Tommy Flanagan, Herbie Nichols, Martial Solal, Lennie Tristano, Barbara Carrol, Mary Lou Williams, Hampton Hawes, Joe Albany, Carl Perkins. All as interesting or more.

also, I've never heard a bad word about Phil Woods. Please be careful what you say in a public forum.

Edited September 8, 2010 by AllenLowe

[Christiern]

The Thad, Hank, Elvin hypothesis is, of course, ludicrous. As is this elevating of the Marsalis family, but Wynton is no stranger to receiving politically-based awards—the Pulitzer Prize is a sad example.

Phil Woods is absolutely right about this decision amounting to a tarnishing of this honor's value. Wynton's lofty seat on the jazz scene is largely the product of hype that germinated at CBS Records, and thus, faux. The rest of the family owe most of their recognition to that same successful promotional effort. Were the NEA honor solely based on artistic talent and influence, none of the Marsalises would merit consideration, not even Branford, who is a tad above the rest in the talent area.

It is sad that standards in so many areas of music have been lowered to accommodate the less talented at the expense of the truly gifted.

[Larry Kart]

How delightful that I'm able to operate Phil Woods by remote control.

[tranemonk]

One of the things I find so obnoxious about discussions about Wynton is that there's WAY too many dismissive opinions...

It's just not worth trying to have a rational conversation.

[Shawn]

Interesting, honoring an entire family...why don't they just give an award to Ellis for his sperm and that would take care of the rest.

[Free For All]

Interesting, honoring an entire family...why don't they just give an award to Ellis for his sperm and that would take care of the rest.

Now that would be an interesting induction ceremony!

Really, if they're going to honor an entire family, shouldn't MOM be at the top of the list?

[AllenLowe]

"why don't they just give an award to Ellis for his sperm "

sorry, now you boys have gone too far - I am locking this thread. take your smutty comments elsewhere.

Edited September 8, 2010 by AllenLowe

[AllenLowe]

sorry lady -

[AllenLowe]

accepting the award....

[AllenLowe]

this is getting strange - I must be sleep walking - I post in one place and they end up in another place.

Maybe there is a god -

[AllenLowe]

this is the real deal

Edited September 8, 2010 by AllenLowe

[AllenLowe]

I do believe I am having an out-of-body experience.

[AllenLowe]

what what a couple! Edited September 8, 2010 by AllenLowe