Integrity in the Music Media:

[JSngry]

understanding Larry's point, I will just add what a major art form that I consider criticism to be, in and of itself.

That makes more sense.

Then again, in a state of some kind of freedom, life itself is an ongoing act of creativity and criticism.

The main thing is to do, Whatever it is.

[AllenLowe]

for a very bizarre example of Dave Marsh's work, read his tome on Louie Louie. I would say it needed editing, but if I was the editor, I'm not sure that I could find a coherent enough thread in it to edit.

[paul secor]

Hey, give the man his due. Dave Marsh has made a pretty nice career out of being a shill.

[Quincy]

Thank you guys for not including Dave Marsh on any of your lists.

Thank you for that, and what followed too!

[paul secor]

Great criticism is great stuff, but I don't like the term "co-equal" because it sounds like the start of an argument and/or puts people's backs up. I like to look at it (in part) like this: The link between the right critic and the right piece of art is like a marriage that works; both parties were no doubt cool before they met, but when they did meet, a third very good thing began to happen. Also, though people on the making art side tend not to want to credit this, a whole lot of art (especially from the semi-distant and/or oblique past or from "what the heck is this?" present) can benefit quite a lot from (even flat out need) the right kind of understanding/interpretation. See, for example, Leo Steinberg's book on Da Vinci's "Last Supper." Mind-blowing/utterly convincing/enriching, and quite unlike (with one almost forgotten exception, a Polish critic at the turn of the century) anything that anyone has said about the work before.

More names for Allen's list:

Terry Martin

Jack Cooke

Michael James

That would be Steinberg's "Leonardo's Incessant Last Supper":

http://www.amazon.com/Leonardos-Incessant-Last-Supper-Steinberg/dp/1890951188

I'll add the name of Guy Davenport to the list. He was a learned man with myriad interests, and he was able to convey his interests, enthusiasms, and insights to his readers. If I could keep the works of only one critic, they would be his.

[Larry Kart]

I'll add the name of Guy Davenport to the list. He was a learned man with myriad interests, and he was able to convey his interests, enthusiasms, and insights to his readers. If I could keep the works of only one critic, they would be his.

I had the pleasure of asking Davenport to do at least one book review (of a biography of Ben Jonson) when I was the editor of the Chicago Tribune books section. I believe it was included in one of his books.

I also asked Harvey Pekar to do some reviews (and/or responded to his requests that I ask him to/let him review something) -- at least once with unfortunate/near-infuriating results.

[AllenLowe]

just found an interesting short article by Davenport on Wittgenstein (whom I've read but not really understood).

Always interested in Wittgenstein, however, since my mother studied piano with his one-armed brother (for whom Ravel wrote a piece).

Digression, I know, but my mother used to show me her old piano music with his very sloppy scrawl.

[Jay]

This is 2010.

You mean you guys actually still a) pay for and b) read print magazines?

That's because the predominant attitude in Western society is: why should I pay for anything if I can get it for free? Just ask Allen or any other artist about their CD sales, for example.

Anyway, as to paying for a magazine and its value, I would rather pay for smart criticism where I know that the writers have a level of competence and aptitude than the other end of a spectrum. Many "online" writers are dreadful.

This writer is obviously a joke, but I would caution people that are so quick to write off every critic so blindly. Does that mean that no one pays attention to, say, Larry Kart, John Corbett, Kevin Whitehead or Ken Dryden to name just a few, anymore?

Sorry for sidetracking your thread, Allen.

You did notice the smiley, right?

For the record, I did...but I think that line of thought is pretty much spot on for a lot of folks. I have certainly heard it.