Letterman Craps All Over Jazz Again

[paul secor]

Letterman's a smarmy third rate comedian. Who cares?

[papsrus]

Letterman's a smarmy third rate comedian. Who cares?

He was great in the '80s though!

[donz5]

Dale, your "FACT" consists of two other folks who claim that "Dave hates Jazz." That's not "public record"; it's just two other opinions.

The public record I'm talking about were his own interview statements in print. Maybe one day I'll remember where I read them, but probably not. I really don't care anymore. Peace.

Then perhaps maybe one day your claim will be substantiated. Until then, it isn't.

The extensive list of jazz musicians I documented constitutes 10% of Letterman's NBC shows. A far cry from "famously boycott[ing] jazz from his show for decades" as you earlier claimed. Get back to us when you compile a similar percentage for all other late night talk shows in the '80s and early '90s. And let us know when you find Sadao Watanabe, Olantunji, and McCoy Tyner performing on Carson.

It helps to back up one's claims with actual, real facts instead of trumped-up hyperbolic fiction.

[JSngry]

Another example why hardly anybody gives a fuck about either New York City or jazz anymore.

[GregK]

Lyle Lovett is jazz?

[Christiern]

"Another example why hardly anybody gives a fuck about either New York City or jazz anymore. " A meaningless statement, Him.

As for the list. One thing to bear in mind is that because a guest is regarded as a jazz artist, his/her appearance on a show like Letterman's does not necessarily point to a jazz interested host.

Herbie Hancock (to take an example twisted by donz5) is certainly a jazz pianist, and a damn good one, but he has also delved into pop and had a measure of success with it. In other words, he might have been on the show for reasons other than his jazz talent. That goes for many people on the list. Does anybody think George Benson was there for his jazz playing?

Harry Connick, Tom Waits, Earl Klugh, Lyle Lovette—gimme a break! How about Sam Rivers, Sonny Rollins, Dexter Gordon, Jimmy Heath, Toshiko, Art Blakey, and the list could ho on.

Are you sure that Letterman's talent coordinator isn't Ken Burns?

[donz5]

I've "twisted" no examples, Christiern. Your qualifications on what constitutes "legitimate" jazz only goes to confirm my initial comment.

[Free For All]

By the way, dalemcfarland and donz5, I don't think anyone has said welcome yet, so WELCOME to the board! Hopefully all this foolishness won't discourage you from returning.

[JSngry]

I've watched - and enjoyed - Letterman since his debut show taking over from Tom Snyder in 1982. It was a "big deal" then that he had a "rock" band as house band, and yeah, he made no secret of the fact that, no, he really didn't care for jazz. At all. That was almost 30 years ago. Of course he's had some jazz (and "jazz") on since then. And why shouldn't he? He's white, late-middle-aged, and fairly well off. Perfect jazz demographic these days!

I mean, really, I kinda understand Dale's "beef", but ultimately I think it's so much pissing in the wind. But this...aggressiveness in defending Letterman, as if to paint him - or his show - as a reasonable "supporter" of jazz on his show, as if he's a suspect human being if in fact he really doesn't like jazz (or even hates it) I mean, what the fuck is that all about? Where outside the hyper-insular world of the hyper-insular "jazz fan" does a thought like that even begin to be fomented?

Y'all some deluded-ass motherfuckers if you think that this even begins to matter anywhere else except JazzWorld.

Edited August 1, 2010 by JSngry

[donz5]

Selected Jazz musicians on Letterman's CBS show (1993 - present) (source: my Letterman database):

Anita Baker (January 30, 1994; April 27, 1995)

Gato Barbieri (June 16, 1999: sits in with band throughout show)

Tony Bennett (October 18, 1993; May 20, 1994; December 19, 1994; June 21, 1995; November 30, 1995; February 5, 1997; September 30, 1998; November 22, 1999; November 5, 2001)

Tony Bennett & Diana Krall (August 31, 2000)

Tony Bennett & Elvis Costello (September 25, 2006)

Tony Bennett & k.d. lang (February 10, 2003)

George Benson (February 17, 1994

Michael Bublé (February 15, 2005; February 10, 2006; August 2, 2007; September 9, 2008; March 22, 2010)

Natalie Cole (October 27, 1993; November 15, 1996)

Harry Connick, Jr. (December 17, 1993; July 8, 1994; November 30, 1994; May 3, 1995; July 1, 1996; December 18, 1996; November 6, 1997; May 24, 1999; November 14, 2001; February 3, 2004; February 6, 2007; November 25, 2008; September 30, 2009)

Bela Fleck (April 13, 1995)

Herbie Hancock (February 27, 1995: sits in with band throughout show; October 4, 1995: subbed for Paul Shaffer; November 13, 1998: sits in with band throughout show; April 1, 2002: sits in with band throughout show)

Etta James (August 28, 2001; July 17, 2002)

Diana Kroll (December 17, 2001; April 26, 2004; September 20, 2006; April 3, 2009)

Lyle Lovett (17 shows, from October 3, 1994 to November 20, 2009; includes His Large Band)

Branford Marsalis (June 12, 1995)

Wynton Marsalis (April 5, 1994; May 10, 1995; August 5, 1998; May 13, 2009)

Pat Metheney (January 16, 1995: sits in with band throughout show)

David "Fathead" Newman (February 25, 1998: sits in with band throughout show; January 22, 2008: sits in with band throughout show)

John Pizzarelli (January 8, 1997; August 1, 2000)

Tito Puente (March 7, 1995: sits in with band throughout show)

Sade (December 20, 2000; April 3, 2001; February 9, 2010)

David Sanborn (20 appearances; for most of them, sits in with band throughout show)

Arturo Sandoval (March 7, 1995: sits in with band throughout show; November 14, 2000: sits in with band throughout show)

Tom Scott (August 6, 1996: sits in with band throughout show)

Doc Severinsen (January 14, 1995: sits in with band throughout show; March 22, 1995: sits in with band throughout show; January 31, 2005, with Tommy Newsom and Ed Shaunessy)

Lew Soloff (August 16-19, 1994: subbed for Tom Malone; February 15-16, 1999: subbed for Al Chesnovitz)

Alan Toussaint: April 23, 1997; January 13, 1998; June 9, 1998; September 7, 2005; June 6, 2006 -- for all: sits in with band throughout show)

Tom Waits (September 27, 1999; May 8, 2002; September 28, 2004; November 27, 2006)

Grover Washington, Jr. (May 12, 1997: sits in with band throughout show; December 8, 1997: sits in with band throughout show)

Charlie Watts Quintet (July 10, 1996)

Tony Williams (January 28, 1997: sits in with band throughout show)

That's quite a boycott of jazz artists.

By the way, dalemcfarland and donz5, I don't think anyone has said welcome yet, so WELCOME to the board! Hopefully all this foolishness won't discourage you from returning.

Thanks for the welcome, Free! One of my favorite Art Blakey LPs is his "African Beat" project.

[donz5]

I've watched - and enjoyed - Letterman since his debut show taking over from Tom Snyder in 1981. It was a "big deal" then that he had a "rock" band as house band, and yeah, he made no secret of the fact that, no, he really didn't care for jazz. At all. That was almost 30 years ago. Of course he's had some jazz (and "jazz") on since then. And why shouldn't he? He's white, late-middle-aged, and fairly well off. Perfect jazz demographic these days!

I mean, really, I kinda understand Dale's "beef", but ultimately I think it's so much pissing in the wind. But this...aggressiveness in defending Letterman, as if to paint him - or his show - as a reasonable "supporter" of jazz on his show, as if he's a suspect human being if in fact he really doesn't like jazz (or even hates it) I mean, what the fuck is that all about? Where outside the hyper-insular world of the hyper-insular "jazz fan" does a thought like that even begin to be fomented?

Y'all some deluded-ass motherfuckers if you think that this even begins to matter anywhere else except JazzWorld.

This "aggressiveness," as you put it, is simply to correct the myth that there's been a "boycott" of jazz musicians on Letterman's programs. And to do that is to document the truth as best as is possible with incontestable evidence. Thus the lists.

I don't know whether Dave likes jazz or not, but I would suggest that anyone here likewise has no clue as well, regardless of what one has "heard" on other forums.

But that's immaterial; whether he loves, likes, cares less, or detests "jazz" (the word dependent on who's defining it, it seems) has no bearing on the false argument that his shows have "boycotted" jazz for decades.

When the facts show quite otherwise.

[JSngry]

Dude, forget the "forums" - go back and read all the old interviews from when the show was new and hot (there are plenty). Dave lets it be known that jazz was something that he had no personal use for. It's there, more than once, and in his own words. And to that I say big whoop.

More to the point...wtf difference does it make if this "myth"/"false argument" exists or not? What little bit of difference in any but the most isolated world will it make?

Ok, so you disprove the "myth". Then what?

Really - then what?

Seems a little bit...out there if you ask me.

Edited August 1, 2010 by JSngry

[donz5]

Hey, just correcting the false record as claimed in here. Didn't realize that was too "out there."

As for the old interviews -- can you provide us with specific quotes? This is just more "it's there... in his own words," but so far no one's actually offered a source.

[JSngry]

See, this is what about this all being just a little obsessive. I mean. I was alive then, I bought magazines, I read interviews, I remember what was said about the subject. I doubt very seriously that I kept those magazines (although anything's possible), and....it's like you don't want to be lieve it. Why noit? Do you think I just pull shit like this out of my ass?

Try looking in People, Time, Newsweek, & Rolling Stone for starters. Somewhere in 1982-84. Look for any talk having to do with how unusual it is for a late night talk show to have a rock band instead of a then-traditional big band. Probably not all of those magazines will have quires, but I promise you that some of them will.

If you need to find it so bad, go find it then. Me, I've been there, read that, and don't need to go hunting for it again.

In the meantime, say hi to Margaret.

[Christiern]

There is no rule that says a night show host has to like jazz. Letterman can do as he wishes and we should really not care. His heroin "joke" was not funny. As so often, he should have kept his mouth hut. I hardly ever watch tht show because I find organ grinder Paul whatshisname super annoying. My only point was that you can come up with mile long lists of people who have in some way been connected with jazz, but that means absolutely nothing. Most of the names on that list are people whose appeal goes beyond jazz and that is why many of them get booked by Letterman's people. No big thing. I recall seeing jazz people on Dick Cavett's show and wishing they weren't there, because his questions were dumb to the point of being embarrassing.

[papsrus]

Selected Jazz musicians on Letterman's CBS show (1993 - present) (source: my Letterman database):

(...)

... I was alive then, I bought magazines, I read interviews, I remember what was said about the subject.

My Jsngry database indicates he is correct.

At least what music Letterman does have on his show is performed live and not lip-synced or some shit. The rare times I've watched his show in the last 10 - 15 years, the bands that he's had on have always seemed OK. Not jazz, but who cares?

[donz5]

See, this is what about this all being just a little obsessive. I mean. I was alive then, I bought magazines, I read interviews, I remember what was said about the subject. I doubt very seriously that I kept those magazines (although anything's possible), and....it's like you don't want to be lieve it. Why noit? Do you think I just pull shit like this out of my ass?

Try looking in People, Time, Newsweek, & Rolling Stone for starters. Somewhere in 1982-84. Look for any talk having to do with how unusual it is for a late night talk show to have a rock band instead of a then-traditional big band. Probably not all of those magazines will have quires, but I promise you that some of them will.

If you need to find it so bad, go find it then. Me, I've been there, read that, and don't need to go hunting for it again.

In the meantime, say hi to Margaret.

See, it's not for me to substantiate your claim. "Margaret" slam noted, yet irrelevant.

[Larry Kart]

Sources that request anonymity have revealed that donz5 is Chris Heim.

[jlhoots]

Sources that request anonymity have revealed that donz5 is Chris Heim.

Strange thread.

I don't know who Chris Heim is, nor do I know who Margaret is.

My "loss" I guess.

[donz5]

Sources that request anonymity have revealed that donz5 is Chris Heim.

Strange thread.

I don't know who Chris Heim is, nor do I know who Margaret is.

My "loss" I guess.

"Margaret" is Margaret Ray, a disturbed woman who, in the late '80s, stalked Dave to the point of stealing his car and dropping by his home in the middle of the night. She later committed suicide by lying down in front of an approaching train. Very sad.

[jlhoots]

Sources that request anonymity have revealed that donz5 is Chris Heim.

Strange thread.

I don't know who Chris Heim is, nor do I know who Margaret is.

My "loss" I guess.

"Margaret" is Margaret Ray, a disturbed woman who, in the late '80s, stalked Dave to the point of stealing his car and dropping by his home in the middle of the night. She later committed suicide by lying down in front of an approaching train. Very sad.

O.K.

Who's Chris Heim??

[papsrus]

Sources that request anonymity have revealed that donz5 is Chris Heim.

Strange thread.

I don't know who Chris Heim is, nor do I know who Margaret is.

My "loss" I guess.

"Margaret" is Margaret Ray, a disturbed woman who, in the late '80s, stalked Dave to the point of stealing his car and dropping by his home in the middle of the night. She later committed suicide by lying down in front of an approaching train. Very sad.

O.K.

Who's Chris Heim??

I'll take a wild stab at it:

About Chris Heim

Chris splits her time between radio and writing. She started in free-form radio at the University of Chicago's WHPK, and then worked at both WJKL and WXRT in Chicago, before making the move to public radio. She currently hosts a nightly, eclectic world and jazz based show that harkens back to the glory days of free form on KMUW (www.kmuw.org). She's also written for a number of publications, including Utne, Option, the Chicago Tribune, where she was a regular columnist, and Encyclopedia Britannica, where she contributed a piece on world music, and now contributes to several world, blues and jazz publications.

[JSngry]

Other than somebody who keeps a David Letterman database?

Don't know, and, by now, don't care.

[Larry Kart]

Sources that request anonymity have revealed that donz5 is Chris Heim.

Strange thread.

I don't know who Chris Heim is, nor do I know who Margaret is.

My "loss" I guess.

"Margaret" is Margaret Ray, a disturbed woman who, in the late '80s, stalked Dave to the point of stealing his car and dropping by his home in the middle of the night. She later committed suicide by lying down in front of an approaching train. Very sad.

O.K.

Who's Chris Heim??

Google "Chris Heim WBEZ."

Also, check out the thread here from several years back on the end of jazz programming at that station (NPR's Chicago outlet) and about Heim's role in eviscerating jazz programming there before it was ended entirely.

Finally -- and this is what I really had in mind -- you'll see on that thread that a previously unknown pseudonymous poster arrived to aggressively defend the evisceration of jazz programming at WBEZ by Heim in terms that seem to me amusingly reminiscent of donz5's behavior here since his arrival.

The WBEZ thread (it's a long one, but you'll no doubt detect donz5's predecessor):

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=26278&hl=heim&st=0

[Larry Kart]

His handle was "lawrence olds." His contributions begin here:

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=26278&hl=heim&st=60