jeffcrom Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Bird - Possibly the most brilliant improviser to have graced this planet. Every time I think I'm getting close to really grasping his genius, I realize how far I have to go. About 30 years ago, just when I felt as if I was getting a handle on his playing, I came up against some note choices that baffled me - I couldn't figure out why he was playing those notes against that chord, and how it could possibly sound as good as it did. Now I know exactly why he played those notes, but I am no closer to understanding how his mind and musical instincts worked as fast and brilliantly as they did. After Charlie Parker, in no particular order: Johnny Hodges - A source of joy and beauty since I discovered him at age 16 or so. Benny Carter - Despite a dissenting opinion or two here, a masterful improviser. Some are put off by what they hear as the "detached" quality of his playing. That part is subjective, and I don't hear it that way. But listen to the structures he created as he played; listen to the macro-syncopation - the extremely varied phrase lengths that he somehow all tied together into a magnificent whole. Ornette Coleman - His conception changed the musical world for me and many others. Eric Dolphy - I always loved the friction between "inside" and "outside" in his music. Boyce Brown - Ahead of his time in the same way Bix Beiderbecke was. I wish he had recorded more. Anthony Braxton - I know Braxton is a lot of things, not just a jazz saxophonist. But alto is his strongest horn, and his playing showed me lots of possiblities. Roscoe Mitchell - Ditto the above. I would rather hear him play alto than anything else. Lee Konitz - A constant example. I am often chagrined when I compare the purity of his improvising to my playing. I could go on - Paul Desmond, Captain John Handy (mentioned by Allen above), Jimmy Lyons - but I've got to stop somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Bird, Cannonball, Paul Desmond, Lou Donaldson, Sonny Red, Frank Strozier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Naming just one, Bird. Next is Cannonball. No question. Glad I get to listen to 'em all though. No question about that either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Charlie Parker, Ornette Coleman, & Sonny Criss are probably my absolute favorites, with Julius Hemphill Art Pepper, Cannonball Adderley, and Johnny Hodges not too far behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 jeez, how did I forget Hemphill? It was like standing next to a volcano - and Boyce Brown, thanks, Jeff, for reminding me - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Charlie Parker, of course! And also Ornette Coleman, Eric Dolphy, Johnny Hodges, Benny Carter, Willie Smith, Cannonball Adderley, Jimmy Lyons, Art Pepper, Lee Konitz, Bud Shank, Dudu Pukwana, Kippie Moeketsi... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 I can't believe I forgot Threadgill and Criss. Sonny's Dream alone is sufficient legacy for the latter. Threadgill, as far as I'm concerned, registers one of the few truly original and simultaneously current musical conceptions of anyone in jazz. Zooid's output has been some of the only real "blow your mind" improvised music I've heard in the past few years. Speaking of composer/altos--good ones, but not necessarily favorites--I have been struck by Steve Lehman's octet music. I know that he hasn't gotten the best reception in these and related circles (I recall Allen not liking it), but I'm surprised there hasn't been at least some real discussion, positive or negative, on this music--considering its prominence in some of the mainstream jazz discourse (as of late). I could take or leave the brute theory of integrating spectral analysis into jazz composition, but somehow the prominence of these components in his music draws the explicit jazz aspects (harmonies, "sectional" groupings, the melodic and rhythmic content of the solos) into starker relief. It can get somewhat monotonous, but like Threadgill's music it offers a way out of the neocon/free dyad/morass that is totally constructive in character (which I endorse 100%).Oh--and I can't stress enough that, if I'm in the right mood, I can take Dudu and blow everything else to hell. It's that powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnivore Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Most days I'm happy to hear Pete Brown - lead alto never got better than Les Robinson - even more than Hymie and Toots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Earl Warren (the Basie one - little known as a soloist, but could play the pants off Benny Carter) - Pete Brown Dave Schildkraut Charlie Parker Gene Quill Ornette Coleman Dudu Pukwana Capn John Handy (the N.O. guy) Eric Dolphy This is why these kinds of threads are so interesting. Listened to some Handy clips and absolutely love 'em. Pukwana is a guy I've never been aware of either, but going by Allmusic sounds like he's definitely worth investigating. Bird - Possibly the most brilliant improviser to have graced this planet. Every time I think I'm getting close to really grasping his genius, I realize how far I have to go. About 30 years ago, just when I felt as if I was getting a handle on his playing, I came up against some note choices that baffled me - I couldn't figure out why he was playing those notes against that chord, and how it could possibly sound as good as it did. Now I know exactly why he played those notes, but I am no closer to understanding how his mind and musical instincts worked as fast and brilliantly as they did. After Charlie Parker, in no particular order: Johnny Hodges - A source of joy and beauty since I discovered him at age 16 or so. Benny Carter - Despite a dissenting opinion or two here, a masterful improviser. Some are put off by what they hear as the "detached" quality of his playing. That part is subjective, and I don't hear it that way. But listen to the structures he created as he played; listen to the macro-syncopation - the extremely varied phrase lengths that he somehow all tied together into a magnificent whole. Ornette Coleman - His conception changed the musical world for me and many others. Eric Dolphy - I always loved the friction between "inside" and "outside" in his music. Boyce Brown - Ahead of his time in the same way Bix Beiderbecke was. I wish he had recorded more. Anthony Braxton - I know Braxton is a lot of things, not just a jazz saxophonist. But alto is his strongest horn, and his playing showed me lots of possiblities. Roscoe Mitchell - Ditto the above. I would rather hear him play alto than anything else. Lee Konitz - A constant example. I am often chagrined when I compare the purity of his improvising to my playing. I could go on - Paul Desmond, Captain John Handy (mentioned by Allen above), Jimmy Lyons - but I've got to stop somewhere. Great rundown Jeff. And thanks for turning me onto Boyce Brown as well. I really need to listen more closely to Benny Carter. I wouldn't have characterized his playing as 'detached.' ... 'Polished,' maybe. None of the rough edges I tend to gravitate toward, I suppose. Most days I'm happy to hear Pete Brown - lead alto never got better than Les Robinson - even more than Hymie and Toots. Intrigued about Robinson now also. It's so difficult for me to compare Hodges, say, to Dolphy or Ornette Coleman. Same instrument, completely different vocabulary. -- I love all three for very different reasons. And Braxton for yet altogether different reasons. But in the end, I suppose it's Parker above all else, even though I'm just scratching the surface there and will likely never have an appreciation for his music that a seasoned player might. It's still amazing. Anyways, love reading about the hows, the whys and the wherefores. (And I really must listen more closely to Benny Carter.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 No one else in for some Willie Smith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Alto sax is my favourite jazz instrument, so there are many favourites, but number one can not be anyone but: Charlie Parker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 (edited) No one else in for some Willie Smith? Sure, although not as number one. And let's not forget another great Smith: Tab Smith. And while we're at altoists not mentioned before in the thread: Earl Bostic. And John Jackson! Edited August 13, 2010 by Swinging Swede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Friedman Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 (edited) Charlie Parker is clearly my favorite. After Bird there is a long list including Jackie Mclean, Charles McPherson, early Lee Konitz Phil Woods, Art Pepper, Frank Morgan, Paul Desmond, Benny Carter, Johnny Hodges, Cannonball Adderley, Bud Shank, Ernie Henry,Gary Pribek, and many others. Edited August 13, 2010 by Peter Friedman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 And if you have difficulties deciding who's your favourite... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnivore Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Earl Warren (the Basie one - little known as a soloist, but could play the pants off Benny Carter) - Pete Brown Dave Schildkraut Charlie Parker Gene Quill Ornette Coleman Dudu Pukwana Capn John Handy (the N.O. guy) Eric Dolphy This is why these kinds of threads are so interesting. Listened to some Handy clips and absolutely love 'em. Pukwana is a guy I've never been aware of either, but going by Allmusic sounds like he's definitely worth investigating. Bird - Possibly the most brilliant improviser to have graced this planet. Every time I think I'm getting close to really grasping his genius, I realize how far I have to go. About 30 years ago, just when I felt as if I was getting a handle on his playing, I came up against some note choices that baffled me - I couldn't figure out why he was playing those notes against that chord, and how it could possibly sound as good as it did. Now I know exactly why he played those notes, but I am no closer to understanding how his mind and musical instincts worked as fast and brilliantly as they did. After Charlie Parker, in no particular order: Johnny Hodges - A source of joy and beauty since I discovered him at age 16 or so. Benny Carter - Despite a dissenting opinion or two here, a masterful improviser. Some are put off by what they hear as the "detached" quality of his playing. That part is subjective, and I don't hear it that way. But listen to the structures he created as he played; listen to the macro-syncopation - the extremely varied phrase lengths that he somehow all tied together into a magnificent whole. Ornette Coleman - His conception changed the musical world for me and many others. Eric Dolphy - I always loved the friction between "inside" and "outside" in his music. Boyce Brown - Ahead of his time in the same way Bix Beiderbecke was. I wish he had recorded more. Anthony Braxton - I know Braxton is a lot of things, not just a jazz saxophonist. But alto is his strongest horn, and his playing showed me lots of possiblities. Roscoe Mitchell - Ditto the above. I would rather hear him play alto than anything else. Lee Konitz - A constant example. I am often chagrined when I compare the purity of his improvising to my playing. I could go on - Paul Desmond, Captain John Handy (mentioned by Allen above), Jimmy Lyons - but I've got to stop somewhere. Great rundown Jeff. And thanks for turning me onto Boyce Brown as well. I really need to listen more closely to Benny Carter. I wouldn't have characterized his playing as 'detached.' ... 'Polished,' maybe. None of the rough edges I tend to gravitate toward, I suppose. Most days I'm happy to hear Pete Brown - lead alto never got better than Les Robinson - even more than Hymie and Toots. Intrigued about Robinson now also. It's so difficult for me to compare Hodges, say, to Dolphy or Ornette Coleman. Same instrument, completely different vocabulary. -- I love all three for very different reasons. And Braxton for yet altogether different reasons. But in the end, I suppose it's Parker above all else, even though I'm just scratching the surface there and will likely never have an appreciation for his music that a seasoned player might. It's still amazing. Anyways, love reading about the hows, the whys and the wherefores. (And I really must listen more closely to Benny Carter.) Benny's solo on Billie Holiday's Verve recording of 'What's New' is one of the classiest things you'll ever hear, I believe. It's absolutely perfect in every way.....regarding Les Robinson, I always take the sax soli in Artie Shaw's 1939 recording of 'I Surrender Dear' as a benchmark regarding the art of the saxophone section, and how to play lead (and how to play with the lead as well!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcrom Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 And if you have difficulties deciding who's your favourite... Well, it does say "Double Play." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Ornette Coleman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Barton Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 (edited) This could be a long list... Johnny Hodges Charlie Parker Paul Desmond Lee Konitz (especially the material with Warne Marsh) Ornette Coleman Frank Strozier Bunky Green Sonny Criss Jackie McLean Cannonball Adderley Roscoe Mitchell Jimmy Lyons Art Pepper (mainly latter-day Pepper) Dudu Pukwana Anthony Braxton Julius Hemphill Oliver Lake Arthur Blythe If I was "forced" to choose just one it would have to be Bird. On the other hand, as a personal favorite, Julius Hemphill would get the nod. Among "younger" players now active it would definitely be Rudresh Mahanthappa. Edited August 13, 2010 by Bill Barton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownian Motion Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Charlie Holmes was a consistently interesting early player. I also like Don Stovall, Buster Smith, and especially Pete Brown, whose conception, so different from that of Carter and Hodges, makes him one of the swing era's great stylists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazztrain Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 I resisted the urge to throw in a few names that others have added during my drive home within the last hour or so (Earl Bostic, Willie Smith (especially when he was with Lunceford -- I find much of his later work less satisfying), and Don Stovall). Here a few more to consider in the mix: Jimmy Dorsey was a fabulous alto player. Tab Smith did some interesting recordings as well; he deserves a mention at least. Fess Williams, when he wasn't slap tonguing, did some surprisingly modern sounding work. Charlie Holmes was a consistently interesting early player. I also like Don Stovall, Buster Smith, and especially Pete Brown, whose conception, so different from that of Carter and Hodges, makes him one of the swing era's great stylists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 (edited) Instead of trying to compile a list, I just went with my immediate gut reaction... Johnny Hodges Marion Brown Sonny Criss Edited August 13, 2010 by Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 (edited) No one else in for some Willie Smith? Sure, although not as number one. And let's not forget another great Smith: Tab Smith. And while we're at altoists nor mentioned before in the thread: Earl Bostic. And John Jackson! Yes on Tab and Jackson - not so sure about Bostic... I can take about 3-4 tracks of him at the time. As for Willie Smith: not a #1 choice, sure... but everyone's been posting lengthy lists and he turned up on none. Well, I guess people just aren't playing Jimmie Lunceford any longer. Edited August 13, 2010 by king ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcrom Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 No one else in for some Willie Smith? Sure, although not as number one. And let's not forget another great Smith: Tab Smith. And while we're at altoists nor mentioned before in the thread: Earl Bostic. And John Jackson! Yes on Tab and Jackson - not so sure about Bostic... I can take about 3-4 tracks of him at the time. As for Willie Smith: not a #1 choice, sure... but everyone's been posting lengthy lists and he turned up on none. Well, I guess people just aren't playing Jimmie Lunceford any longer. Well, I'm definitely a Willie Smith fan. And I like many of the other altoists named. But I already feel like I cheated enough by answering "Who's your favorite alto sax player?" with a list. After my list of nine favorites and three "alternates," Buster Smith, Willie Smith, and Marion Brown would probably be my next three. And I promise to stop there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Pomea Posted August 14, 2010 Report Share Posted August 14, 2010 I read on this board that Lester Young loved Frankie Trumbauer, so I thought he should be mentioned in this thread as one of the greats of jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted August 14, 2010 Report Share Posted August 14, 2010 Yes, Marion Brown. I also thought of Trevor Watts, who kills it on John Stevens's No Fear, but I think his soprano sax playing is even more exceptional. (Bare Essentials is probably my favorite album of that school of improv, like a super minimal Interstellar Space), Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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