BFT #79 Discussion

[Michael Weiss]

Ready, set, go...

I hope everyone is able to download and listen to your heart's content. If there are still problems with the links, someone just shoot me.

[MartyJazz]

I just took a cursory listen in the car after retrieving the disc from the mailbox and wow this isn't easy. I did spot Lucky Thompson (was it track 4?) doing "Why Do I Love You?" from an early '60s Prestige session, I think Hank was on piano.

Re the opening "Tiger Rag" track, I'll take a stab at Buster Bailey.

OK, will listen some more and hopefully come up with more definitive answers or at least, educated guesses.

[MartyJazz]

Second track driving me crazy also. At first, I thought Lunceford, but much too clean and beyond big band swing to be that. Boyd Raeburn?

Track #3: Very Bud Powell-esque, but totally unfamiliar with this track which makes me suspect otherwise. But I'm stuck at Bud.

Track #5: I think I should know this pianist, I hear a bit of a Jamal influence, but it's not him and I just cannot guess with any confidence.

Track #6: Chart sounds very Sun Ra-like but I don't think Ra himself could ever play with that kind of facility.

Track #7: Sounds somewhat familiar, Buddy Montgomery on vibes? Can't place the tenor.

OK, will listen some more next time I get in the car.

[Jim R]

1. Talk about chops. That said, I don't particularly enjoy the frantic nature of this, although the technique is certainly astonishing. Also, I'm not really a fan of high-pitched solos, whether it's a clarinet, a trumpet, or any instrument, actually. For me, listening to this is akin to having a fly buzzing around my ears. I would guess that this dates to the late 30's, or 40's. Kind of has a hot club vibe to it.

2. I like this much better. This sounds like WWII-era. Very cool arrangement... I like the rhythmic variety, and how the whole band helps to create that. I kind of found the guitar intro to be a bit disjointed from the rest of the piece. Maybe I was expecting the guitar to remain a bit more of a presence throughout the piece.

3. Sounds like late 40's or early 50's. I'm terrible at trying to identify pianists, and I'm not sure I've ever heard this. I hesitate to guess, but could this be some early Bud? At any rate, it's tasty.

4. Jerome Kern's "Why Do I Love You", from "Showboat". I immediately think of Kenny Dorham's album on Time when I hear this tune, but this is a very nice rendition too. It's from...this

5. What a beautiful touch this pianist has. Great articulation and dynamics. Lovely tune as well, and again not sure I've ever heard this. Maybe Ahmad Jamal?

6. Well, the energy certainly changes here. Another track I've never heard. Nice simple structure and arrangement, allowing the pianist to wail. And wail he does. I'm hearing some things that remind me a bit of Tyner, or Hancock... but I'm shooting in the dark. This is less in my wheelhouse stylistically than the last couple of tracks, but I like it.

7. This is really nice. Nothing overly complex, but interesting and tasty. I'm as bad at identifying vibists as I am with pianists... so I was hoping the tenor would get a solo. Anyway, his tone is reminding me of Clifford Jordan. Another thing that comes to mind is that band with Harold Land and Bobby Hutcherson.

8. Have to respectfully pass on this one.

9. I felt like I didn't want to like this at first, but it kept drawing me in. I wouldn't buy it, but I found the chords interesting, and the drama well crafted.

10. Know the tune well... and I've forgotten the name of it very well. Always embarrassing. Is it a Cedar Walton composition? 70's era? That tenor player was blowing his brains out, but I don't know who it is. Sounded to me like he might have cut off the pianist's solo before the pianist was ready for it to be over. Anyway, great playing all around, and nice to hear a live performance like this.

11. This has a very spiritual quality... and nice dense harmonies. Obvious talent and skill here for how to organize, arrange and conduct for voices.

12. Structurally and instrumentally, this reminds me of some things I've heard while exploring Brazilian music. It doesn't offer quite as much in terms of melody as I would have preferred, but the overall sound and arrangement are very appealing to me.

13. Very nice, tight, together piece. Everybody is concise and to the point with nothing wasted... and two tenors is almost always a good thing, imo. Great way to finish things off here.

Looking forward to learning a few things here. Thanks for the music, Michael!

[Michael Weiss]

I did spot Lucky Thompson (was it track 4?) doing "Why Do I Love You?" from an early '60s Prestige session, I think Hank was on piano. Yes!

Re the opening "Tiger Rag" track, I'll take a stab at Buster Bailey. Damn, Marty - Two for two.

Track #3: Very Bud Powell-esque That's for sure.

Track #5: I think I should know this pianist, I hear a bit of a Jamal influence, but it's not him and I just cannot guess with any confidence.

I guess there is something Ahmad/Israel/Vernel -ish about this.

Track #6: Chart sounds very Sun Ra-like but I don't think Ra himself could ever play with that kind of facility.

Hell no. However there is something Sun Ra-like about this track.

Track #7: Sounds somewhat familiar, Buddy Montgomery on vibes? Can't place the tenor.

Uh-oh, another early breakthrough! Marty you're the man!

[Michael Weiss]

Just a few comments about your comments:

4. Jerome Kern's "Why Do I Love You", from "Showboat". I immediately think of Kenny Dorham's album on Time when I hear this tune, but this is a very nice rendition too. It's from...this You got it.

5. What a beautiful touch this pianist has. Great articulation and dynamics. Glad you noticed and commented. Lovely tune as well, and again not sure I've ever heard this. Maybe Ahmad Jamal? Not Ahmad.

8. Have to respectfully pass on this one. Certainly not everyone's cup of tea.

9. I felt like I didn't want to like this at first, but it kept drawing me in. I wouldn't buy it, but I found the chords interesting, and the drama well crafted. Much deserved repeated listenings will provide greater enjoyment and understanding (That would be a good fortune cookie!)

11. This has a very spiritual quality... Doesn't it though! and nice dense harmonies. Obvious talent and skill here for how to organize, arrange and conduct for voices.

Looking forward to learning a few things here. Thanks for the music, Michael!

[Chas]

Track #6: Chart sounds very Sun Ra-like but I don't think Ra himself could ever play with that kind of facility.

6. Nice simple structure and arrangement, allowing the pianist to wail. And wail he does. I'm hearing some things that remind me a bit of Tyner, or Hancock... but I'm shooting in the dark.

The long, dancing, propulsive lines of this pianist are certainly Tyner-esque, but they are occasionally punctuated by harmonic choices that are less derivative of Tyner. The harmonic conception on display here is characteristic of Chick Corea's early playing of which this is an example. The track is Marjoun from Pete LaRoca's Turkish Women At The Bath.

[JSngry]

Can't sleep, might as well have a BFT, with the usual thanks and disclaimers Ambionically in place, away we go...

TRACK ONE - Plenty of chops, but at the end I feel like I'm at a vaudeville show or something, and I'd just as soon not be.

TRACK TWO - Charlie Barnett? Nice band, nice bridge. The chart kind of puts me in mind of "Little Jazz", but the tenor puts me in mind of Barnett, so it's probably Barnett affectionizing "Little Jazz".Things could be worse.

TRACK THREE - That's Bud's left hand and Bud's touch, but the tune is not one I know off hand, and the lines seem a little strung together to be Bud, or at least prime Bud. But I think that's Max...Oh well, plenty of piano here!

TRACK FOUR - Dig that intro! A whole inversion/conversion/reversion of the Dear Old Stockholm lick. Nice! The tune I had to beat my head up on until I remembered 's version - it's "Why Do I Love You", and that's Lucky Thompson (had to process-of-elimination it on AMG, but the tone was sooo familiar that I knew if I saw a name it would jump out at me, and sure enough it did). I don't knwo that I've ever not enjoyed Lucky Thompson. And I very much enjoy Hank Jones' contribution here.

TRACK FIVE - I really should know the name of this tune...it's by Cedar? AAAARGH....great tune, heard it for years, guess I never learned the name....great bass sound, just a gian huuuummmmmmm, that's what you want for this. Very nice all the way around, and I'll kick myself when I hear the name of the tune.

TRACK SIX - Sounds like Chick of the Now He Sings... period, only on a worse piano.. Can't say that I know this album, but I like this quite a bit. The whole trio + the mystery tenor in the background is all together in their zone, and they are actively engaged in being actively engaged in their zone, so hell yeah.

TRACK SEVEN - Burton? Those vibes are gorgeously recorded, not too much attack, and a damn near infinite sustain...interesting tune too, takes you on a real ride. Great bass playing too, fat sound but still bouncy & syncopated, no small feat, that...solos ain't working too much for me, but the bass playing and the tune itself are covering for them.

TRACK EIGHT - The obvious guess would be Ra, maybe off of Pathways To Unknown Worlds? This is nice and linear, there's a narrative, a story unfolding, and everybody's in there together. Fine music!

TRACK NINE - Sounds like a "classical" composition & pianist, beautifully written and played. I can hear it.

TRACK TEN - "Chasin' The Trane"...kinda "New Yorky", but it could just as easily be Europe in the late 60s...I'm not not liking this, I'm just not liking it. Tenor player sounds like Booker Ervin meets Junior Cook...Some other time, perhaps.

TRACK ELEVEN - Zawinul! No? Well, it could have been...

TRACK TWELVE - I'd like to say Wayne, but it's not, I don't think. But it could be...is this something unreleased? I don't think it sounds "finished", and it doesn't sound like it could be anybody else but Wayne. More details, please!

TRACK THIRTEEN - http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:fpfpxqq0ldke There it is, and 'nuff said. I had my doubts about this one, but nope, Tenor wins.

Pretty delightful collection all told, a lot of good tunes and individualistic sounds and touches, I line for shit like that. Thanks!

[Hot Ptah]

This is an extremely interesting Blindfold Test. I am enjoying it a great deal, even as I strike out at guessing almost all of it.

Track 2 reminds me of Fletcher Henderson's "Queer Notions." I wonder if it is very late Fletcher Henderson, or a band made up of some of his musicians. At times I hear the blueprint of an approach that Sun Ra used years later in some of his more mainstream performances, and of course he came out of Fletcher Henderson's band. Very interesting.

Track 8 has to be Sun Ra. I thought so from the beginning, but then later in the piece, I heard the "boiiing boiiing" keyboard sound which was so prominent on the song "Space Is The Place" from the album of that title. I probably have this album, but can't remember which one it is.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Hot Ptah

[Michael Weiss]

The long, dancing, propulsive lines of this pianist are certainly Tyner-esque, but they are occasionally punctuated by harmonic choices that are less derivative of Tyner. The harmonic conception on display here is characteristic of Chick Corea's early playing of which this is an example. The track is Marjoun from Pete LaRoca's Turkish Women At The Bath. Ding, ding.. another correct ID.

[Michael Weiss]

Can't sleep, might as well have a BFT, with the usual thanks and disclaimers Ambionically in place, away we go...

TRACK ONE - Plenty of chops, but at the end I feel like I'm at a vaudeville show or something, and I'd just as soon not be. There was a clarinet thread going a while ago so I thought of this track. Like it or not, that's some serious clarinet playing. I never heard any other "etude" like this from the period.

TRACK TWO - Charlie Barnett? Nice band, nice bridge. The chart kind of puts me in mind of "Little Jazz", but the tenor puts me in mind of Barnett, so it's probably Barnett affectionizing "Little Jazz".Things could be worse. And dig that chord progression. Not Charlie Barnett.

TRACK THREE - That's Bud's left hand and Bud's touch, but the tune is not one I know off hand, and the lines seem a little strung together to be Bud, or at least prime Bud. But I think that's Max...Oh well, plenty of piano here! Plenty, plenty piano. And not Bud. So who else could tear it up on a tempo like this from this time? You're correct on Max.

TRACK FOUR - Dig that intro! A whole inversion/conversion/reversion of the Dear Old Stockholm lick. Nice! That truly is some gorgeous shit. Thanks for noting. The tune I had to beat my head up on until I remembered 's version - it's "Why Do I Love You", and that's Lucky Thompson (had to process-of-elimination it on AMG, but the tone was sooo familiar that I knew if I saw a name it would jump out at me, and sure enough it did). I don't know that I've ever not enjoyed Lucky Thompson. And I very much enjoy Hank Jones' contribution here. IMHO this is a perfect record. Top class from beginning to end.

TRACK FIVE - I really should know the name of this tune...it's by Cedar? AAAARGH....great tune, heard it for years, guess I never learned the name....great bass sound, just a gian huuuummmmmmm, that's what you want for this. Very nice all the way around, and I'll kick myself when I hear the name of the tune. Not Cedar.

TRACK SIX - Sounds like Chick of the Now He Sings... period, only on a worse piano.. Definitely one of the classic worst recorded dates of the period, but I'll gladly take it! Can't say that I know this album, but I like this quite a bit. The whole trio + the mystery tenor (Mister-ee, Mister-...) in the background is all together in their zone, and they are actively engaged in being actively engaged in their zone, so hell yeah. In some ways the bizarre sound of this recording adds to the vibe.

TRACK SEVEN - Burton? Those vibes are gorgeously recorded, not too much attack, and a damn near infinite sustain...interesting tune too, takes you on a real ride. Not Burton, who's work I'm sadly under-familiar with. Dig the expressive qualities here in this soloist - plenty soul. Great bass playing too, fat sound but still bouncy & syncopated, no small feat, that...solos ain't working too much for me, Say it ain't so. That's a great solo. Give it another shot. Maybe it becomes rhythmically unhinged in a couple of spots, but great lines and feeling. but the bass playing and the tune itself are covering for them.

TRACK EIGHT - The obvious guess would be Ra, maybe off of Pathways To Unknown Worlds? Another ID! This is nice and linear, there's a narrative, a story unfolding, and everybody's in there together. Exactly! Everything seems to happen just when it's supposed to. Fine music!

TRACK NINE - Sounds like a "classical" composition & pianist, beautifully written and played. I can hear it.

TRACK TEN - "Chasin' The Trane"...kinda "New Yorky", That's apt I guess. It was in NYC. but it could just as easily be Europe in the late 60s...I'm not not liking this, I'm just not liking it. Tenor player sounds like Booker Ervin meets Junior Cook Well it ain't both of them. Can I credit a partial ID? ...Some other time, perhaps.

TRACK ELEVEN - Zawinul! No? Well, it could have been... Interesting idea. Source wasn't all that far from his backyard.

TRACK TWELVE - I'd like to say Wayne, but it's not, I don't think. But it could be It could be. ...is this something unreleased? Not unreleased, but likely OOP. I don't think it sounds "finished", and it doesn't sound like it could be anybody else but Wayne. More details, please!

TRACK THIRTEEN - http://www.allmusic....10:fpfpxqq0ldke There it is, and 'nuff said. I had my doubts about this one, but nope, Tenor wins.

Pretty delightful collection all told, a lot of good tunes and individualistic sounds and touches, I line for shit like that. Thanks!

This is an extremely interesting Blindfold Test. I am enjoying it a great deal, even as I strike out at guessing almost all of it.

Track 2 reminds me of Fletcher Henderson's "Queer Notions." I wonder if it is very late Fletcher Henderson, or a band made up of some of his musicians. At times I hear the blueprint of an approach that Sun Ra used years later in some of his more mainstream performances, and of course he came out of Fletcher Henderson's band. Very interesting.

Not Fletcher Henderson.

Track 8 has to be Sun Ra. Correct. I thought so from the beginning, but then later in the piece, I heard the "boiiing boiiing" keyboard sound which was so prominent on the song "Space Is The Place" from the album of that title. I probably have this album, but can't remember which one it is.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Michael Weiss

[JSngry]

I'm hating myself for not knowing the name of the tune on #5...

#10 is Junior Cook, then. A private tape, perhaps, courtesy of B.F. Testee?

I found # 12: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:gnfwxqr5ld0e Never knew of this album. Will begin looking for it immediately.

No comments on #s 9 & 13? Please?

I'm still hating myself for not knowing the name of the tune on #5...

[Michael Weiss]

I'm hating myself for not knowing the name of the tune on #5... You shouldn't. It's VERY obscure. Only recorded a few times.

#10 is Junior Cook, then. Yes. A private tape, perhaps, courtesy of B.F. Testee? Perhaps...

I found # 12: http://www.allmusic....10:gnfwxqr5ld0e Never knew of this album. Will begin looking for it immediately. It's great hearing Wayne solo in the fabric of a complex composition not of his own making. I think this piece is very impressive from a former classmate on his debut album.

No comments on #s 9 & 13? Please? Was saving for the reveal thread, but #9 is from one of my favorite composers. The music is on my piano along with all his other works for piano. #13 - Well you ID'd it and left it at that so I followed your lead. I'll reserve my comments for the reveal.

I'm still hating myself for not knowing the name of the tune on #5...

[JSngry]

Obscure or not, #5 is one of those tunes that I "know" from the first few notes, it's such a distinctive piece. Which is why not being able to remember the name and go to the shelves and pull it is driving me nuts...

I'll be interested in hearing about # 9 . I very much enjoyed it.

[Michael Weiss]

I also thought about Dodo Marmarosa for track 3. He could have played with this kind of facility, but I'm not sure it really sounds like him. Not Dodo.

You're pretty brave, including track 13. I can hear somebody now - "Whoever the piano player was totally ruined this one for me!" I wasn't hearing that myself, but, if you're that "somebody," to each their own. I've always like Steve Grossman, but I don't think I ever would have figured out that was him with Griffin. Believe me when I say it wasn't for my playing that I selected this track.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Michael Weiss

[jeffcrom]

I also thought about Dodo Marmarosa for track 3. He could have played with this kind of facility, but I'm not sure it really sounds like him. Not Dodo.

You're pretty brave, including track 13. I can hear somebody now - "Whoever the piano player was totally ruined this one for me!" I wasn't hearing that myself, but, if you're that "somebody," to each their own. I've always like Steve Grossman, but I don't think I ever would have figured out that was him with Griffin. Believe me when I say it wasn't for my playing that I selected this track.

I know - I was trying to be funny.

[jeffcrom]

Okay, I've stepped in it. My feeble attempt at humor obviously didn't come across. Apologies to Michael.

[Jim R]

Okay, I've stepped in it. My feeble attempt at humor obviously didn't come across. Apologies to Michael.

Fwiw, Jeff, you gave me a chuckle. I'm sure Michael will forgive you once he sees what your angle was.

I can't believe I didn't recognize Griff on #13... gotta go back and play that again.

[Michael Weiss]

I know it's early going, but I hope the other downloaders chime in before all the tracks are identified!

[MartyJazz]

(snip)

I can't believe I didn't recognize Griff on #13... gotta go back and play that again.

Same here, 'cause Grif is usually very readily identifiable, he really had his own sound whereas Grossman was more derivative (Trane early, Newk later). Am also chagrined because there is simply no excuse - I own the damn CD!

[JSngry]

(snip)

I can't believe I didn't recognize Griff on #13... gotta go back and play that again.

Same here, 'cause Grif is usually very readily identifiable, he really had his own sound whereas Grossman was more derivative (Trane early, Newk later). Am also chagrined because there is simply no excuse - I own the damn CD!

Well, it's later Griff, the tone is a little "looser" (just a little), and he's not as tightly recorded as usual, so there's more ambient sound surrounding his tone. I confess it was a few bars before I locked onto it.

But just a few.

[JSngry]

Was #5ever recorded on an album with Pepper Adams?

Now I'm wanting to say it's a Duke Pearson tune...is that it?

[Michael Weiss]

Well, it's later Griff, the tone is a little "looser" (just a little), and he's not as tightly recorded as usual, so there's more ambient sound surrounding his tone. I confess it was a few bars before I locked onto it. But just a few.

I felt his sound was never the same when he went from the King Super 20 to the Selmer.

Was #5 ever recorded on an album with Pepper Adams? Yes. Now I'm wanting to say it's a Duke Pearson tune...is that it? No.

[JSngry]

a-HA! "Riverbed" by Zawinul...the Money In The Pocket/Concerto Retitled version used to be played regularly by Bob Stewart on the radio around here...I knew I knew that tune from somewhere!

I'm guessing that it the BFT cut comes from this: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:gvfrxq85ldhe but I also notice a version here: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:fcfwxq9gld6e

That's a great tune, man. Great tune.

[Michael Weiss]

a-HA! "Riverbed" by Zawinul...the Money In The Pocket/Concerto Retitled version used to be played regularly by Bob Stewart on the radio around here...I knew I knew that tune from somewhere!

I'm guessing that it the BFT cut comes from this: http://www.allmusic....10:gvfrxq85ldhe (correct) but I also notice a version here: http://www.allmusic....10:fcfwxq9gld6e

Well now that you went all Sherlock Holmes on me...

That's a great tune, man. Great tune. Yes it is. I played it on a gig with Pepper (which I think I have a cassette lying around somewhere) about six months before I recorded it. I remember gingerly asking Pepper if he remembered the tune and he gruffly replied, "Of course!!!!"

Edited October 2, 2010 by Michael Weiss