GA Russell

Are there any box bargains currently available?

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With Django there are so many different issues and this has all been out elsewhere.

But it works well together like this and the sound is excellent indeed. I paid more for my set and I was very happy to get it. Gave a copy to a friend as a gift too and he loves it.

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$18.83 shipped on ebay

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13 hours ago, mesfen said:

How much of this is unique to this set or is most , if not all, available elsewhere?

I don't have a lot of Django, but I do have the 5-CD set on JSP and the first Jazz On Vogue box.  None of this is duplicated on those.

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Posted (edited)

I haven't been around this forum for ages but, just to chime in, I suspect that some from this box (which I also have) is probably available on the single CD reissues and compilation boxes that were part of the Jazz in Paris series ages ago. I was not very discerning way back when and bought everything available (that was cheap) and don't feel like checking how much money I might have wasted. I was also always too lazy to check which one of the global players had which rights to which catalog (Vogue/Gitanes/Universal/ ...). Looking at the prices that I paid for all the Django Reinhard material I have, it didn't really matter if I ended up having everything three times over. As someone else wrote above, this Vogue material reissue sounds good ... whereas a lot of the material reissued by Universal in the later 90s and thereafter sounded like Ted Nugent remastered it. Deaf, dumb ... and blind.

The Jazz in Paris material has been covered well here: https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Series/Jazz_in_Paris (if you want to compare sessions/dates, etc.).

No matter what, the Vogue reissue box in question is good and if you have a (hifi) system you can tweak a bit here and there, it's actually really good (I also have some Avid boxed sets, etc.).

Cheers!

Off to disappear again for several years ...

Edited by neveronfriday

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On 19.4.2017 at 8:04 PM, mjzee said:

Close to a box set... Meat Light, $8.71 + shipping from an Amazon reseller:

81p2YrQs9eL._SL1200_.jpg

While not being a dedicated Zappa follower,this looked tempting and I bought in ....

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Is the music of the Django OAS included in the complete Django Vogue box?

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If so very little of that is in the Vogue box. The OAS is '34 to '37. The Vogue has only a few discs of this vintage and goes up to '51. Read this comprehensive Amazon review of the Vogue set to see what is contained therein:

Top Customer Reviews

ByStuart JeffersonTOP 100 REVIEWERon January 28, 2013
Format: Audio CD|Verified Purchase
Wow. Beginning with Disc's 1 "Tiger Rag" from 1934 (on acetate), and then into "Confessin'", which began Rienhardt's association with Stephane Grappelli, this isn't just "Gypsy music", or even jazz-it's quintessential music, period. There's so much great music here that picking highlights is difficult, if not impossible. These are all the sides Reinhardt recorded for the French Vogue label from his earliest acetates from 1934 up through 1951-a couple of years before his premature death. Besides the versions of "Confessin'" there's "Lady Be Good", "Continental", "Blue Rag", "Swanee River", and other fine examples of Reinhardt's sizzling, quick jazz guitar. Listen to his solos throughout this set-he plays with speed and style all at once. He was someone who did change jazz guitar. Just so you know-much of this music can also be found in a collection from the JSP label for about $30. But the sound (at least to my ears) is a bit better here, and the information and packaging is of a higher quality. If you like what you hear on these eight discs, check out things like Reinhardt's radio recordings and other collections.

Disc 2 begins with Reinhardt in a larger band including horns and other guitarists. Grappelli is also here on several tracks. "Avalon", "Clouds", "St. Louis Blues", "Djangology" are all here from 1935, along with a number of other exciting tunes. Reinhardt could play his lightning fast runs in any kind of setting, and hearing him for the first time in the context of a larger band is proof of his unwavering approach to the music.

Disc 3 finds Reinhardt with a large band in 1945-46. The bands happen to be the Air Transport Command Band (1945), and Duke Ellington's Orchestra (1946), and the music is truly great. "Djangology", "Honeysuckle Rose", "Uptown Blues", "Moten Swing", and "Ride, Red, Ride" (improvised from "Tiger Rag") are included. Again, picking stand-out tunes is impossible, but listen to "Improvisation No. 6", Reinhardt playing unaccompanied. Even more proof is that Reinhardt could adapt his style into any format-even Ellington's band, and still be the "star". But these tracks suffer from the scratchy snaps and crackles of age, but the music is wonderful.

Disc 4 is Reinhardt back in a small band in 1947. These are the first tunes that feature a rhythm section of bass and drums, which give the music a different tone and texture. But over it all, Reinhardt's guitar work stands out. "Melodie Au Crepuscule", "Swing Guitars", "Nuages", and "Django's Dream" are all well played, but so is everything else here. Listen to "Minor Swing" and you'll hear how the electric guitar has pushed Reinhardt's sound into something approaching jazz guitar from the Charlie Christian era or maybe even somewhere further along the jazz guitar lineage. This is one of those times when you hear a musical form change and morph before your ears.

Disc 5, also from 1947, is Reihardt Et Le Quintette Du Hot Club De France. This has Reinhardt on electric guitar with a very small band of guitar, bass, and drums and some fine period clarinet playing. Listen to Reinhardt as he plays an electric guitar-the same approach yet with a different feel to the music. This is one of those times when you hear music that just seems to change (i.e. Coltrane, Parker in jazz, Waters in blues for examples) from one way of playing (and hearing) to something new and exciting.

Disc 6 has music from 1947 also. It's pretty much a continuation of the previous disc, with Reinhardt on electric guitar fronting a small group. About half the tunes feature a clarinet, while the last half of this disc features Grappelli's violin. Reinhardt takes a number of great solos here on tunes like "Ol' Man River", "How High The Moon", "Swing Guitars", "Tiger Rag", and "Dinah". But again, all this music is unassailable.

Disc 7 finishes up 1947 and slips into '48. Nearly half the tunes feature Grappelli in a small group. The other tracks feature a clarinet along with a rhythm section. "How High The Moon", "Crazy Rhythm", and "Improvisation No. 5" are as good as anything on the previous disc. Also check out "Cadillac Slim", "Nuages", and the two "Improvisations".

Disc 8 is music from 1951-early 1952 (one track). This is Reinhardt with Le Quintette Du Hot Club De France, the Paul Baron Orchestra (one track from a 1949 radio broadcast), l'Orchestra Symphonique National (one track from a 1951 radio show), and the majority from 1951 (including saxophone, piano, and trumpet) with l'Orchestra d'Hubert Ful au Club Saint-Germain. The final track is a quintette version of "Nuits De Saint-Germain-Des-Pres", from 1952.

The packaging is first rate. This set was manufactured in Germany. Each disc slips inside a color coded envelope, with song information on the back. The 28 page booklet lists complete track information, along with a few paragraphs for each disc pertinent to the music. Everything fits inside a thick cardboard lidded box. The sound is probably as good as it will ever be-even the early acetates sound okay-especially considering the era this music came from. All in all, a nicely presented package of some quintessential jazz/music.

Suffice to say, if you don't own this music, and you're a jazz and/or guitar fan, do yourself a favor and check this set out. This music is every bit as important as any changes in guitar based music in jazz/blues/rock. In finishing, I have to say that if you don't own any Django Reinhardt-you have a hole in your musical library. Now's a good chance to own some great, "jazz-guitar-changing-music". There's a lot of his recordings around-this is some of his best.

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Posted (edited)

IMO the "problem" with this set is that the Vogue recordings (just like others) have been out in so many guises that it is hard to keep track of what there is elsewhere or not. IMO a Django set purporting to be "complete" makes real sense only if it would encompass the DIFFERENT labels his recordings appeared on. Otherwise you always end up with the same kind of piecemeal hodgepodge affair where you wonder why this or that recording that you remember among his key recordings isn't "there" - until you remember too that it originally was out on a different label that now is part of a different conglomerate. Which IMO would make him a more than ideal candidate for a really comprehensive reissue by one of those European P.D. labels, BTW (though I think they, too, are aware of the fact that so much by him has been recycled so very often).

Edited by Big Beat Steve

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@BigBeatSteve: isn't that what the series of the Fremeaux sets does?

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I have the Mosaic box, a Fremeaux 2 CD set of early recordings, several JSP sets, the Frog/Swing series, and a Verve compilation of late recordings, so I'm covered. I guess that if someone was looking for a set of mostly postwar Django, this would be a way to go. Earlier recordings can be found elsewhere.

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Posted (edited)

Niko, I must admit I am not familar with the Frémeaux sets and have never checked them in detail (I've always had too much Django - though with gaps and overlaps, invariably - to warrant investment in any full-price CD box set or series because those invariably will add loads of additional duplications and will never be all-new).

At any rate, this is how it ought to be done. Prime Django Reinhardt would have to include the QHCF period up to 1939 in depth, and apparently this period is covered only in a very spotty manner by the Vogue box set (I had thought the pre-war Swing recordings - remember that LOOOOONG "Djangologie" LP reissue series on Pathé? - had come under the Vogue banner too, but apparently not so).  My first Django records ever bought (Vogue reissues too) also jump from a handful of 1935 sessions to the postwar recordings with Hubert Rostaing and therefore ommitted a LOT and therefore give a somewhat skewed picture. Seems like this is not fundamentally different here too, judging by the Amazon review above. And, BTW, re- the review, this is NOT what he recorded "for the Vogue label" - there was no such thing as Vogue in 1935 - but for those labels that the conglomerate that holds Vogue now has control over, e.g. Ultraphon. I've also briefly compared the track list found here ...
http://www.freshsoundrecords.com/django-reinhardt-albums/5943-django-reinhardt-on-vogue-complete-edition-1934-1951-8-cd-box-set.html

with the Rust and Jepsen discogrpahies (which may not be 100% up to date anymore) but am a bit puzzled about some of the postwar track listings. But too much work now to sort this out in detail (and no time accessing the Bruyninckx ;)).

That said, at the price indicated above this 8-CD box set should be good value both as an introduction to the artists and as fodder for your car CD player any time. ;)

Edited by Big Beat Steve

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What I found most interesting on the Vogue box was Django on electric guitar.  He sounded nasty!  Also interesting, but not in a great way, was to hear how much the band mimicked the style of Benny Goodman with Charlie Christian.

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3 hours ago, mjzee said:

What I found most interesting on the Vogue box was Django on electric guitar.  He sounded nasty! 

Not sure which recordings you refer to (I don't know all of his post-war recordings - far from it) but I remember some where I found he had quite an attractive "bite" to his electrified sound (maybe due to some - intentional or unintentional - distortion?).  YMMV as some are wont to say around here ... ;)

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I have the Vogue box and IMO the only point open to critique are the numerous Air Force Bands sessions. On the other hand it's very interesting to have the early Ultraphone sesssions there.

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2 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Not sure which recordings you refer to (I don't know all of his post-war recordings - far from it) but I remember some where I found he had quite an attractive "bite" to his electrified sound (maybe due to some - intentional or unintentional - distortion?).  YMMV as some are wont to say around here ... ;)

Exactly as you say.  Check this out:

 

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Surely Vogue = Sony / Jazz in Paris = Universal. So surely no overlap. The Mosaic was (then) EMI-owned, wasn't it? It's only if you buy EU PD sets when serious overlap begins.

Or is that too simplistic?

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Thanks Lon, crisp and everyone in between!

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Posted (edited)

furtwangler.jpg

I purchased this box 3 yrs ago for $89USD and, not a fraction through, concluded it to be the greatest commercial bargain in the history of recorded music.  The price rose considerably thereafter, but, scanning new prospects on Amazon, I see it's available in the crazy-good range ($99USD) once again.  FW's work on the Ring Cycle in '53 alone goes a long way toward justifying the price.  One of my favourite surprises:  performances by the BSO from '39 and '51 of FW's own symphonic compositions./peace,K

https://www.amazon.com/Wilhelm-Furtwängler-Das-Vermächtnis-Legacy/dp/B004JC16LC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1492991428&sr=8-1&keywords=furtwangler  

 

Edited by Kate

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On ‎20‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 7:02 PM, mjzee said:

I don't have a lot of Django, but I do have the 5-CD set on JSP and the first Jazz On Vogue box.  None of this is duplicated on those.

JSP issued several Django's sets.

On ‎20‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 2:46 PM, jazzbo said:

With Django there are so many different issues and this has all been out elsewhere.

But it works well together like this and the sound is excellent indeed. I paid more for my set and I was very happy to get it. Gave a copy to a friend as a gift too and he loves it.

Thanks Lon. I placed an order.

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