David Ayers Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I believe the masters of most Atlantics were destroyed in their warehouse fire. The CDs you hear are in general from the LP masters. That's part of why they sound less good than might be hoped. I wonder what the sourcing story is here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfcrazy1984 Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I believe the masters of most Atlantics were destroyed in their warehouse fire. The CDs you hear are in general from the LP masters. That's part of why they sound less good than might be hoped. I wonder what the sourcing story is here? Ahhh yes. I have the Mosaic Ahmad Jamal set which was remastered from digital sources and I think Malcolm Addey did a good job with that...but you bring up a good point. Anybody know for sure??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I believe the masters of most Atlantics were destroyed in their warehouse fire. The CDs you hear are in general from the LP masters. That's part of why they sound less good than might be hoped. I wonder what the sourcing story is here? I was thinking that too. I have a lot of these titles on crackly Atlantic cutouts. That's probably enough for me, since the music doesn't thrill me; it's too polite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I wonder whether they will include both the mono and stereo takes of some titles the MJQ re-recorded - e.g. Fontessa and The Comedy differ in both issues. Is this list complete? Fontessa One Never Knows At Music Inn Vol. 1 & 2 * No Sun in Venice European Concert Vol. 1 & 2 * MJQ & Orchestra Pyramid Third Steam Music The Comedy Lonely Woman A Quartet is a Quartet is a Quartet The Sherrif Porgy and Bess Jazz Dialogue Collaboration (w. Laurindo Almeida) Blues At Carnegie Hall * Live At The Lighthouse * * are live recordings that will not be included. I don't see "Dedicated to Connie" on this list. That was a concert recorded in Lubjana, Slovenia in 1960 but issued many years later (unless it is one of these and reissued under a different title?). Likewise, their later Atlantic albums like "Blues on Bach" are not here or later concert albums like "The Last Concert," but I assume you're only including material issued at the time that's more or less covered by the period of the set. gregmo As the thread title says the set will only include studio recordings. Yes Hans, but the poster listed the live albums too and asked if his list was complete. I was responding to that query. gregmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Did the master tapes for the MJQ perish in the Atlantic fire? I wonder what sources were used in the transfers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I believe the masters of most Atlantics were destroyed in their warehouse fire. The CDs you hear are in general from the LP masters. That's part of why they sound less good than might be hoped. I wonder what the sourcing story is here? IIRC, that warehouse fire destroyed primarily unreleased stuff and alternate takes. I don't think album masters were stored there and/or destroyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Yeah, that seems to ring a bell with me too, as to what I've heard in the past. The lack of such discussion around such places as the Steve Hoffman board would also, anecdotally, tend to support this as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I think the session masters were there, which is why unissued material was lost. Copies of the album masters, which are the tapes mixed down for LP from the session tapes (with lovely RIAA curvature and all) obviously did survive in other copies, which is why the albums can be reissued from them, albeit without any extra tracks of unissued material, as the unissued stuff existed only in the studio master. Mind you, I did just have a quick look inside a couple of Atlantic Mosaics and didn't see any discussion of this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmonahan Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 The description by Mosaic indicates that the 2 Music Inn sessions will be included. Perhaps those are studio sessions. It does seem to me like I remember reading somewhere that those two were "fake live" recordings, and that the audience reactions had been inserted. Does anybody else remember that?! gregmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Some of that music was on the Giuffre set... wasn't it just some kind of intimate rehearsal/performance space? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) I think it's nice to have that all in one package, and since it's only studio sessions it will give a clearer picture of John Lewis arranging skills. Whoever prefers the Milt Jackson Quartet to The Modern Jazz Quartet will have to go for the live albums. (Seems I will have to look for that Slovenia concert.) Â Playing time of most LPs was rather short, that's why 14 LPs fit on 7 CDs ... this, and dozens of reissues scattered over several labels with varying sound quality and design, will make this a rather attractive set. Â I e-mailed Mosaic about the different mono and stereo takes. Â Â Edited October 11, 2018 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Given the orchestrated and organized nature of the MJQ music, I wouldn't expect any revelations from the alternate takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 what music will be included that is not readily available elsewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I can't say I'm a huge fan of MJQ and I'm sure it will be another top Mosaic production but may pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Technically, the Music Inn sessions were studio recordings - no audiences involved. Michael Cuscuna replied that he wasn't aware there were different takes of some tunes on mono and stereo issues. The ones I remember are Bluesology from Fontessa, and La Cantatrice / Harlequin from The Comedy. I also noticed that there is a mono alternate take of Sun Dance on my Japanese CD issue of The Modern Jazz Quartet At Music Inn. Has anybody else noticed different mono and stereo takes? If so, e-mail it to Mosaic. MC said he will look into this, but mentioned it will be tricky to include alternate takes when trying to fit 14 LPs on to 7 CDs ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Man Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I can't say I'm a huge fan of MJQ and I'm sure it will be another top Mosaic production but may pass. Me too. I have enough of the music in the proposed set to give this one a miss. Anyway, I hope it's a good seller for them; I'd miss them if they weren't here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Given the orchestrated and organized nature of the MJQ music, I wouldn't expect any revelations from the alternate takes.On the alternates I heard the solos were very different. Like the dialogue between Jackson and Lewis and the Lewis solo that follows on the two takes of Sun Dance from the Music Inn sessions I just listened to - totally different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyJazz Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Although I've never been a huge MJQ fan... I think I probably will get this set and try to give them another try.... You must have plenty of green to spare if you're ready to spring for a Mosaic box on a group you don't dig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles65 Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) I have about half of the music from this set in a rather haphazard way so I think I'll get this one. What I don't get is the 1964 cut off date. Half the "Porgy and Bess" album was recorded in in 1965 (unless the disco's are wrong). With the album "Jazz Dialogue" also from 1965 it would make more sense to make 1965 the cut off date. Especially considering the next Atalantic Studio album "Plastic Dreams" is from 1971. So maybe an 8th disc would be in order. That would make room for the alternate takes as well. Edited January 19, 2011 by Stompy Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Off topic, but I wonder if there will be any more Selects. I had the impression that there wouldn't but then the Carter/Bradford came along. That was maybe a one-off though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Off topic, but I wonder if there will be any more Selects. I had the impression that there wouldn't but then the Carter/Bradford came along. That was maybe a one-off though. There will be more Selects. A Lucky Thompson Select was mentioned in another thread, and they're planning more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tranemonk Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) No not really... I just take the tack that most Mosaic sets are worth buying...(I just make Mosaic sets a moderately high discretionary item....) Although I've never been a huge MJQ fan... I think I probably will get this set and try to give them another try.... You must have plenty of green to spare if you're ready to spring for a Mosaic box on a group you don't dig. Edited January 19, 2011 by tranemonk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I think it's kinda nutty that there's different mono & stereo takes that nobody knew about except an O-Board regular, and that this "complete" set might not be complete after all. Crazy world, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcrom Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I think it's kinda nutty that there's different mono & stereo takes that nobody knew about except an O-Board regular, and that this "complete" set might not be complete after all. Crazy world, eh? Maybe off-topic, but this might be a good place to point out that the 1955 Paul Barbarin session reissued in the Mosaic Complete Atlantic New Orleans Sessions has a couple of tracks that are different in their mono and stereo versions. Mosaic just used the stereo takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) MC assured me he will look into this. Seems like the discographies are not accurate about this, but that happens all the time. I discovered this purely by accident. I bought an English stereo pressing of Fontessa, which sounded kinda weird - extremely two channel, nothing in the middle, and lots of tape hiss, low level of the instruments - I liked the music, but the sound made it even softer than it was. The hiss was so loud the cymbals were almost inaudible in soft passages. I never was quite sure whether some mistake had happened during the LP mastering ... I sold it when the CD came out, which turned out to be from the mono masters, which indeed sound much better, all instruments ahev a lot more presence, but I wondered about some takes being different - the one I was completely sure about was Bluesology, which has a short solo vibes intro - both are completely different. As are the solo chorusses. The group sound is so different on the mono masters that I wasn't sure about the other tracks. I had an original US momo LP of The Comedy which I almost wore out, so I sold that too before actually buying the stereo CD. I regret it, since although tape hiss was high and I had worn the grooves the mono LP had a lot more punch. One take was different, I think it was Harlequin, and the segue into it from the preceding track was different, too ... Third case is the first Music Inn LP with Giuffre. I have a Japanese CD issue AMCY-1090 which is in stereo but has an alternate mono take of Sun Dance as a bonus track. Totally different solos, as I stated above. Never underestimate the improvising capacities of the MJQ. These guys could play, and that their music was over-arranged is a common prejudice. I remember reading in some liner notes that they once tested a critical audience by asking which parts were improvised, and the people's judgements were 50% wrong. Just ordered a copy of Dedicated to Connie - must be from the same tour as the European Concert double album, which is great - that was one of my first jazz LPs, and I still know most arrangements and John Lewis solos inside out. Listen to the opening track from The Comedy - they swing like mad, and real fast, too. They were great, period. Edited February 8, 2011 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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