"Listening to the Savory Collection With Loren Schoenberg

[ghost of miles]

Jazz artist, scholar, writer-of-superlative-Mosaic-booklets, and National Museum of Jazz director Loren Schoenberg stopped by the show recently to share some music from the Savory collection. Nearly all of it has not been heard since its original broadcast:

Listening to the Savory Collection With Loren Schoenberg

Artists featured on the program include Mildred Bailey, Lester Young, Roy Eldridge, Benny Goodman, Bunny Berigan, Chu Berry, Duke Ellington, Fats Waller, Bobby Hackett, Earl Hines, Django Reinhardt (performing with Ellington at Carnegie Hall in 1946), Louis Jordan, John Kirby, Joe Mooney, Red Norvo, Artie Shaw, Dave Tough, Tommy Dorsey, and Bud Freeman. The music is heard in excerpted form, accompanied by some commentary from Loren.

[medjuck]

This answers a question I posted yesterday to your Facebook announcement.

[carnivore]

tantalizing

[ghost of miles]

This answers a question I posted yesterday to your Facebook announcement.

On the Night Lights FB page or my own page? I think I missed it (your question) somehow.

Edited May 11, 2011 by ghost of miles

[medjuck]

This answers a question I posted yesterday to your Facebook announcement.

On the Night Lights FB page or my own page? I think I missed it (your question) somehow.

I think I added it as a comment on your FB note about this. Just asked if the show had been broadcast yet and if it was archived. But I'm so bad with FB (I blame them) that I may not have done it right.

Have only heard the first half but it was great. BTW I take it that he feels constrained by law from playing a disc all the way through. Also he seems to have an Ellington broadcast from the Cotton Club not included in the recently released Storyville set that we all thought had all the extant Cotton Club broadcasts except one cut.

[ghost of miles]

This answers a question I posted yesterday to your Facebook announcement.

On the Night Lights FB page or my own page? I think I missed it (your question) somehow.

I think I added it as a comment on your FB note about this. Just asked if the show had been broadcast yet and if it was archived. But I'm so bad with FB (I blame them) that I may not have done it right.

Have only heard the first half but it was great. BTW I take it that he feels constrained by law from playing a disc all the way through. Also he seems to have an Ellington broadcast from the Cotton Club not included in the recently released Storyville set that we all thought had all the extant Cotton Club broadcasts except one cut.

Yes re: the "constrained by law" comment. The only full-length track I used was "Tiger Rag," and that came from the previously-released CD that included that side (which has turned up, in better sound quality, in the Savory collection as well). I used it to fill out the so-called "newshole," the five-minute segment that follows the show's opening billboard, and which isn't always taken by NPR stations (some opt to cut away for the top-of-the-hour newscast, which means some listeners will be joining the program six minutes in).

According to Loren, all of the music that he brought along was being played on a radio show for the first time since its original broadcast. (I.e., the music on this program doesn't overlap with what he played on WNYC last year, etc.) It's incredible how much material that collection contains.

Edited May 11, 2011 by ghost of miles

[bichos]

that m u s t be released!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

keep boppin´

marcel

[Big Beat Steve]

that m u s t be released!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

keep boppin´

marcel

By ALL, ALL,ALL means!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gmonahan]

Bump. I was in New York last week and spent a morning (and part of an afternoon!) listening to the Savory recordings and talking to Loren Schoenberg at the National Museum of Jazz in Harlem. It's really just a large room with a few offices, but I became a patron/member anyway to do what I could. The recordings are...simply...fantastic. After four hours, I had barely touched the surface (there are five DAYS of music). Highlights included a "Fats Waller Block Jam" with Teagarden and Pee Wee Russell that included "I'm Coming Virginia," "Blues," and "Honeysuckle Rose," the three of them lasting a total of over 20 minutes. There was a gorgeous little version of "Star Dust" by Herschel Evans, a fabulous jam session by Bunny Berigan with members of the Lunceford band. The Teagarden material alone could occupy most of a cd. Several versions of "Strange Fruit" with Billie Holiday, and music from Adrian Rollini, Albert Ammons, Tatum, Shaw, lots and lots of Benny Goodman, Cab Calloway, Bob Crosby, Chick Webb, Hawk, Basie, Django, Ellington, Norvo, Krupa, John Kirby, Hampton, Satch, Stuff Smith, Teddy Wilson, Lennie Tristano among others.

Loren told me that the big problem was with the estates, some of which just won't respond at all, including the Goodman estate with which you'd think he'd have an in. I guess there's also a big problem with the union (even though only three of the sidemen on the various recordings are still living). Otherwise, he said he's got the music ready to go.

It is so frustrating. This music is an absolute treasure trove, and anybody who can should call and schedule a time to go in and hear it. Of course, it desperately needs to be released. To his credit, Schoenberg is working very, very hard to do it, but he appears to be something of a one-man show. I told him I'd post something about it here. Maybe some of you out there know people from the various estates (especially Goodman and Calloway) and can get them moving. It's not like there's any money to be made from these things. This stuff just HAS to be released!

gregmo

[bichos]

Bump. I was in New York last week and spent a morning (and part of an afternoon!) listening to the Savory recordings and talking to Loren Schoenberg at the National Museum of Jazz in Harlem. It's really just a large room with a few offices, but I became a patron/member anyway to do what I could. The recordings are...simply...fantastic. After four hours, I had barely touched the surface (there are five DAYS of music). Highlights included a "Fats Waller Block Jam" with Teagarden and Pee Wee Russell that included "I'm Coming Virginia," "Blues," and "Honeysuckle Rose," the three of them lasting a total of over 20 minutes. There was a gorgeous little version of "Star Dust" by Herschel Evans, a fabulous jam session by Bunny Berigan with members of the Lunceford band. The Teagarden material alone could occupy most of a cd. Several versions of "Strange Fruit" with Billie Holiday, and music from Adrian Rollini, Albert Ammons, Tatum, Shaw, lots and lots of Benny Goodman, Cab Calloway, Bob Crosby, Chick Webb, Hawk, Basie, Django, Ellington, Norvo, Krupa, John Kirby, Hampton, Satch, Stuff Smith, Teddy Wilson, Lennie Tristano among others.

Loren told me that the big problem was with the estates, some of which just won't respond at all, including the Goodman estate with which you'd think he'd have an in. I guess there's also a big problem with the union (even though only three of the sidemen on the various recordings are still living). Otherwise, he said he's got the music ready to go.

It is so frustrating. This music is an absolute treasure trove, and anybody who can should call and schedule a time to go in and hear it. Of course, it desperately needs to be released. To his credit, Schoenberg is working very, very hard to do it, but he appears to be something of a one-man show. I told him I'd post something about it here. Maybe some of you out there know people from the various estates (especially Goodman and Calloway) and can get them moving. It's not like there's any money to be made from these things. This stuff just HAS to be released!

gregmo

thanks, gregmo, for your report. it is mouthwatering!!! and a shame at the same point!!! about the circumstances to release this important material! let´s hope that we can all hear this historical recordings one day!

keep boppin´

marcel

[John Litweiler]

Greg is right, the Savory collection at the Jazz Museum is a highlight of anyone's trip to NYC.

[romualdo]

Any updates on the Savory collection?

I've just read that the collection contains recordings of the first Randall's Island Jazz Festival (May 29, 1938) - 25 Swing Bands played including Ellington & Basie

Hope Mosaic (or similar) can get involved & hopefully release this material before the end of the decade

[John L]

It would be nice if they could start releasing it in pieces. OK, the Benny Goodman estate is causing delays. So hold back on the Benny Goodman material for the time being. There must be agood amount of material for which all the musicians are dead and there are no issues from estates. No?

[Big Beat Steve]

It would be nice if they could start releasing it in pieces. OK, the Benny Goodman estate is causing delays. So hold back on the Benny Goodman material for the time being. There must be agood amount of material for which all the musicians are dead and there are no issues from estates. No?

Exactly.

Really ... no matter how great B.G. was - how many more live recordings/airshots/broadcasts by B.G. do you really, desperately, unconditionally NEED?

I cannot really see myself going after YET ANOTHER live version of "Rachel's Dream" ...

There are other artists that have been served far less in the past and could do with a few more publicly accessible additions to their recorded legacy.

And Randall's Island would indeed be something ... so we can at last get some sound to that known footage ...

Edited December 9, 2013 by Big Beat Steve

[gmonahan]

I don't think the BG estate is the only one holding it all up. Schoenberg was citing it as one of the more egregious examples. But I certainly agree that getting any of it would be great. Pretty sure Mosaic is already on board.

gregmo

[bichos]

in the meantime i gave up hope that this Treasury will ever be released! why? because it´s in the posession of the national jazz Museum in Harlem. if you want to hear some of the recordings you have to visit the Museum. that´s the big plus Point of the Museum. they have "the holy grayl". if it gets released not so many People would go to visit the Museum (i think). the same is with the Louis armstrong Museum. they have all of Louis tapes (in there an undocumented jam session with Charlie parker and big nick nicholas (without satchmo)). you can only hear it when you visit the Museum.

only my guess.

Keep boppin´

marcel

[gmonahan]

in the meantime i gave up hope that this Treasury will ever be released! why? because it´s in the posession of the national jazz Museum in Harlem. if you want to hear some of the recordings you have to visit the Museum. that´s the big plus Point of the Museum. they have "the holy grayl". if it gets released not so many People would go to visit the Museum (i think). the same is with the Louis armstrong Museum. they have all of Louis tapes (in there an undocumented jam session with Charlie parker and big nick nicholas (without satchmo)). you can only hear it when you visit the Museum.

only my guess.

Keep boppin´

marcel

Now Marcel, such cynicism! But, I think in this case, Loren really does want to get the music released. He's a true jazz guy.

gregmo

[jazztrain]

I've also more or less given up hope of the music appearing any time soon.

Ironically, I just received an e-mail this morning from the Berklee College of Music about an upcoming concert that they'll be hosting at "The Loft" at 939 Boylston Street in Boston, Massachusetts on Dec. 17 (one week from now) at 7 pm.

It's a pdf, so I'll just quote from it:

>>>

Creole Roots Plus - The Savory Concerts

The Savory Collection are recordings from a series of 1930s-era radio broadcasts by an audio engineer named William
Savory. Live performances given by some of the biggest names in jazz—including Louis Armstrong, Benny Goodman, and
Billie Holiday—are the foundation of this massive compilation, a collection of nearly 1,000 discs.

These legendary concerts
will receive thrillingly new
and varied interpretations
during an imaginative evening
of music.

Featuring Loren Schoenberg, Etienne Charles, Matt Glaser
& Students in the Berklee College of Music American Roots Music Program

>>>

[bichos]

in the meantime i gave up hope that this Treasury will ever be released! why? because it´s in the posession of the national jazz Museum in Harlem. if you want to hear some of the recordings you have to visit the Museum. that´s the big plus Point of the Museum. they have "the holy grayl". if it gets released not so many People would go to visit the Museum (i think). the same is with the Louis armstrong Museum. they have all of Louis tapes (in there an undocumented jam session with Charlie parker and big nick nicholas (without satchmo)). you can only hear it when you visit the Museum.

only my guess.

Keep boppin´

marcel

Now Marcel, such cynicism! But, I think in this case, Loren really does want to get the music released. He's a true jazz guy.

gregmo

gregmo, your wish is also mine! i hope it will be released, but i´m pessimistic/realisic about the circumstances of Copyright and all this things to get this (or parts of it) released. hope, hope, hope!

Keep boppin´

marcel

[colinmce]

I'm not much of a digital music person at all, but it seems like the best of all worlds would be to somehow have the entire collection available to stream or download. Via a dedicated website? I dunno, I know nothing about these things, but that would be nice.

[Chuck Nessa]

It is always best to have music you want for free.

[colinmce]

Well, I was presuming there'd be a price, a la Wolfgang's Vault or something.

[JSngry]

I've also more or less given up hope of the music appearing any time soon.

Ironically, I just received an e-mail this morning from the Berklee College of Music about an upcoming concert that they'll be hosting at "The Loft" at 939 Boylston Street in Boston, Massachusetts on Dec. 17 (one week from now) at 7 pm.

It's a pdf, so I'll just quote from it:

>>>

Creole Roots Plus - The Savory Concerts

The Savory Collection are recordings from a series of 1930s-era radio broadcasts by an audio engineer named William

Savory. Live performances given by some of the biggest names in jazz—including Louis Armstrong, Benny Goodman, and

Billie Holiday—are the foundation of this massive compilation, a collection of nearly 1,000 discs.

These legendary concerts

will receive thrillingly new

and varied interpretations

during an imaginative evening

of music.

Featuring Loren Schoenberg, Etienne Charles, Matt Glaser

& Students in the Berklee College of Music American Roots Music Program

>>>

Wait...am I reading this right? They're going to be giving concerts "recreating" records that only a few people have ever heard?

And people will be thrilled to pay money to hear this?

Yes, "imaginative". Quite.

[John L]

I'll pay for it if they will also play the Buddy Bolden cylinder.

[jazztrain]

I suspect that it's a free concert. Yes, it's free. Here's a link: http://www.berklee.edu/events/savory-concerts-creole-roots-plus-0\\

It's unclear how these unissued air checks have now achieved "legendary" status except that they're largely unheard by most of us and unavailable unless you have the time to venture to NY. Some of us have been treated to presentations where small excerpts of some of them have been played; however, Lorne has generally faded down or talked over them just as things get interesting. Tantalizing but ultimately frustrating. I know that Mosaic has been trying to get clearance to issue some of the recordings, but I'm not holding my breath.

It seems like an odd conceit for a concert (i.e., interpreting recordings that are largely unheard). I wonder if the Savory recordings that serve as the basis for the interpretations will be played at the concert in their entirety before the interpretations. Given past presentations, I suspect not.

I've also more or less given up hope of the music appearing any time soon.

Ironically, I just received an e-mail this morning from the Berklee College of Music about an upcoming concert that they'll be hosting at "The Loft" at 939 Boylston Street in Boston, Massachusetts on Dec. 17 (one week from now) at 7 pm.

It's a pdf, so I'll just quote from it:

>>>

Creole Roots Plus - The Savory Concerts

The Savory Collection are recordings from a series of 1930s-era radio broadcasts by an audio engineer named William
Savory. Live performances given by some of the biggest names in jazz—including Louis Armstrong, Benny Goodman, and
Billie Holiday—are the foundation of this massive compilation, a collection of nearly 1,000 discs.

These legendary concerts
will receive thrillingly new
and varied interpretations
during an imaginative evening
of music.

Featuring Loren Schoenberg, Etienne Charles, Matt Glaser
& Students in the Berklee College of Music American Roots Music Program

>>>

Wait...am I reading this right? They're going to be giving concerts "recreating" records that only a few people have ever heard?

And people will be thrilled to pay money to hear this?

Yes, "imaginative". Quite.