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Do RCA Cables matter?


colllin

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I believe so. You don't have to spend megabucks, but well-constructed cables from good materials in a good design can make a significant difference.

I wish it weren't so. I could have saved money. :)

I've used some good cables from Decware, TARA Labs, Better Cables, PS Audio, Audio Quest and even Monster Cable. Those that come with most components aren't usually anything special.

I've gotten most of my cables (all but the Decware) discounted. You shouldn't have to spend a lot.

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Hi. I recently bought a stand alone DAC and WOW! do my jazz CDs sound better. Is it worth my hard earned money to upgrade the RCA cables that connect my DAC to my amp? Thanks for your input.

This is a controversial topic, with some saying vehemently that there is no way interconnect cables can affect sound because all they are doing is transferring electrical current. The other side says just as strongly that cables can and do affect sound, all you have to do is listen closely to prove this to yourself.

My system is mid-fi at best. By nature I'm a skeptic about this cable thing. And it seems clear that even if you aren't skeptical, this is an area of audio that is rife with snake oil products and extremely expensive bullshit. But I have to say that some interconnect cables do sound different in my system. The biggest difference I've noticed was with a set of cables with silver wire, which were purported to emphasize highs more than copper, and in fact did.

I still don't spend a lot on cables, most of what I have are some nicely made but still inexpensive ones from MCM. (It looks like they may be out of 36" ones though.) Also, knukonceptz makes some nice, inexpensive interconnects. I also have a few sets of pricier ones that I buy opportunistically when I see them for sale used, e.g. Audioquest King Cobra, Kimber PB&J, which I got for a fraction of retail. You also should check out Blue Jeans Cables. They make very nice ones for a reasonable price.

In short, I think the better your ears and the higher end your system is, the more chance there is that interconnects will make a difference. Since I'm at the lower end of the foodchain on both counts, I don't spend much on cables. But I do think that moving away from the absolute bottom of the line makes sense.

Edited by riverrat
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Hi. I recently bought a stand alone DAC and WOW! do my jazz CDs sound better. Is it worth my hard earned money to upgrade the RCA cables that connect my DAC to my amp? Thanks for your input.

Cables make no audible difference. That has been proven in double blind testing. However cheap cables can become damaged easily around the connectors and short out. It's good to buy decent cables just so you don't have to chase down shorts. Surprisingly, monster cables are among the worst for having bad connectors.

In any system, the thing that makes the most difference to the sound is the transducers- speakers and headphones. With speakers the room and equalization is important. If you want to improve your sound, that's the area to focus on.

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Cables make no audible difference. That has been proven in double blind testing.

No, it hasn't. I wish this was true, but it simply isn't.

Please note that I am not saying that uber-expensive (or even sort of expensive) cables are worth paying for. Certainly, if you don't think they make any difference at all, you can save yourself considerable $$. Again, I am much more skeptical about the whole cable thing than the vast majority of audio enthusiasts. I've personally never spent more than about $30 on a set. There are those (probably like you) who think even this is ridiculously expensive, then there are those who say that the "low end" in cables goes up to about $250 or even considerably more.

I am sure that certain people have not been able to detect differences in certain systems in certain double blind tests. But it does not follow from this that cables never make an audible difference in any system, ever.

See what I mean about this being controversial?

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I don't believe that RCA cables can improve the sound coming out of your speakers. However, I do believe that a bad or poorly-made cable can degrade that sound. As mentioned earlier, cheap cables usually fail at the connector and cause all kinds of problems from hum to crackle. I've yet to hear a failing RCA cable roll off the highs or lows.

I believe that if the cable you are using produces good sounding music, you're all set. If you want change over to well-made, but inexpensive cables, I highly recommend Blue Jean Cable.

BTW, I am not advocating using cheap cables. I use higher end cables myself. Having said that, I think anyone that pays hundreds or even thousands of dollars for an RCA interconnect is wasting their hard-earned money.

Kevin

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What are the physics here? Let's leave "sound" out of it, what is traveling through the wire, and what can "go wrong" with the quality of the wire to make a difference?

Seems to me that if I get better performance (i.e. - stronger, more consistent delivery of current) out of my weedeater using a heavy-gauge outdoor utility cord than I do using an indoor extension cord, then there could possibly be some kind of parallel for audio cables, no?

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The differences between the conductivity of various kinds of cables are well beneath the threshold of audibility. There have been numerous tests that show this. Silver doesn't sound brighter. That is sympathetic magic... The color of the metal is brighter, so the sound must be brighter. It is perfectly possible to measure the differences between cables and determine the difference that makes on the sound. Any reasonably good cable sounds the same.

There is so much hoodoo in home stereo discussions it's pitiful. Jitter in inaudible in the extent that it occurs in even the least expensive CD players by a factor of 100:1. Most solid state amplifiers are equal, except in power rating. It is simple to create a good sounding preamplifier. The things that matter are the quality of the DAC to a certain extent, but mostly the quality of the transducers and the balance of the frequency response.

The reason that there is so much misinformation is because of equipment manufacturer's sales pitch. When you're assembling a product from stock parts to a stock design, the only way to differentiate your product from the others is to make a number on a piece of paper look a little bit better. Never mind that the difference between your specs and your competitor's is 100 times below the threshold of human audibility. If it looks better on paper, someone with OCD will go with your product for "peace of mind".

The truth is stereo salesmen lie more than used car dealers and politicians combined.

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I agree whole-heartedly that there is a lot of hoodoo hogwash and lots of misrepresentation in audio talk and sales.

I also disagree that cables make no difference. Sorry, I have come to that conclusion with care and trust what I perceive.

AND I'm not going to argue about it. Believe what you wish to, and I'll believe what I wish to.

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I find that my informal impression isn't as trustworthy as controlled scientific testing. Placebo and psychological factors can have a huge impact. Food tastes better if I eat under a warm colored light instead of a green one. That doesn't mean i should spend more money on food or season it differently. It just means that i should pay attention to my own comfort and not base my satisfaction solely on how much something costs. There's no reason for me to spend $100 on a hunk of wire to feel better about how my stereo sounds. A comfortable couch to sit on while I listen does more for the sound of my system.

I've worked with engineers who built recording studios. They used regular old wire to hook up the mixing consoles. That's good enough for me.

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Again, believe what you want, I am not going to argue with you, but I'm not going to share your conclusions here. Use whatever is good enough for you, I applaud your decision to do so.

I've been on audio boards and music boards for a decade and I've heard all this before and I have come to my own conclusions through listening and some fairly scientific comparisons. It is what it is as far as I'm concerned.

Edited by jazzbo
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Cables do most definitely make a difference - but a lot of it has to do with synergy/matching with the rest of your system and the quality of the rest of your system. Plus there is definitely a law of diminishing returns, the more you spend. The secret, I guess, is to find the 'maxima' of improvement gain per unit price difference.

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What are the physics here? Let's leave "sound" out of it, what is traveling through the wire, and what can "go wrong" with the quality of the wire to make a difference?

Seems to me that if I get better performance (i.e. - stronger, more consistent delivery of current) out of my weedeater using a heavy-gauge outdoor utility cord than I do using an indoor extension cord, then there could possibly be some kind of parallel for audio cables, no?

Jim - a weed whacker draws a lot of current. If the cord somehow restricts that current (i.e. higher resistance), then the voltage at the end of the circuit (the weed whacker) drops and when that happens, the motor slows down.

RCA phono cables deliver very little current at very low voltages. You could never overdrive this cable.

Lon & I have disagreed over this for years and I'm cool with the way he talks about it.

There are others over on the Steve Hoffman forums who defend ludicrous statements with remarks about how my hearing must be faulty, all backed by Hoffman himself, who does hawk some serious "snake oil" audio products - like the famous "audio coat rack" at $1000 a pair. It's because of Hoffman's defense of these snake oil salesmen over there, I have been hanging out less & less. Just the other day, he told and electrical engineer that he might phuck better then him, but he probably hears better than him. Nice, huh?

Edited by Kevin Bresnahan
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I read about a demonstration done by a high end speaker company once. They invited a large group of "golden ear" critics to audition their newest designs. After a couple of hours, the critics were ecstatic, declaring it the best sound they had ever experienced. As they were leaving, one of the critics asked about the source. The engineer running the demonstration admitted that their high end CD player was acting up, so he had used his iPod running mp3 files through a radio shack cable.

The thing that *does* matter that very few people attend to is frequency response. With a speaker setup, the acoustics of the room and the placement of the speakers and furniture within it can have a huge impact on the sound. You can put the best speakers in the world into the wrong room with the wrong placement and they'll sound terrible. But most people place their speaker cabinets solely based on using them as end tables to set a lamp and a drink on, or hide them in wall cabinets or tucked between couches against the wall. They refuse to equalize because of some theoretical sound quality impact, and continue to listen to grossly imbalanced response.

This isn't much of a problem with headphones, but headphones have their own set of problems when it comes to naturally reproducing sound.

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Besides Blue Jeans, check out Monoprice Cables. Both mfgs. offer quality, great bang for the buck RCAs. Many audiophiles exhibit pathology which considers all cables a component.

Another :tup for Monoprice. Good quality, inexpensive, and no bullshit.

I just recently bought 3 or 4 of monoprice.com's premium RCA phono cables and they've worked well. I always recommend monoprice.com for HDMI cables. They have the best prices. However, I think Blue Jean Cables are the place to go if you want to step up in quality. I bought some of their speaker wires and they are very well made.

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I read about a demonstration done by a high end speaker company once. They invited a large group of "golden ear" critics to audition their newest designs. After a couple of hours, the critics were ecstatic, declaring it the best sound they had ever experienced. As they were leaving, one of the critics asked about the source. The engineer running the demonstration admitted that their high end CD player was acting up, so he had used his iPod running mp3 files through a radio shack cable.

I'd like to read more about that. Got a link? That cracks me up to no end! :lol:

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The story is in the April/May 2004 issue of The Absolute Sound in the article on the Consumer Electronics Show.

The quality of speakers and their balance to the room matters a lot. The wires and source don't. An iPod playing an MP3 through a radio shack cable sounds as good as a 24 bit master playing back through a $5000 cable if the speakers are working properly. As long as the bitrate of the MP3 is high enough to eliminate artifacting, it's the same. The reason for unnatural sound in home stereos is almost always due to frequency response dips and spikes caused by imbalanced speakers. If someone is concerned with getting great sound, they should spend their money on really good speakers and match them to their listening room with equalization and room treatment. As long as the amp is powerful enough to drive the speakers, it doesn't really matter that much what electronics you use. Don't spend a lot on your source and nvest the money you save in buying more music.

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Cables do most definitely make a difference - but a lot of it has to do with synergy/matching with the rest of your system and the quality of the rest of your system. Plus there is definitely a law of diminishing returns, the more you spend. The secret, I guess, is to find the 'maxima' of improvement gain per unit price difference.

:tup

Cables do sound different. I had pair of cheaper interconnects from my TT to Phono amp and they really killed the sound, muffled and dull, improved immensely by a slightly dearer set of Nordost connects. I only trust my ears when it comes to HiFi upgrades.

Edited by Clunky
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