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Bootleg: Miles Davis Quintet Live in Europe 1967


mjzee

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I've always found it interesting that he somehow managed to hold back the Tatum stuff when he sold Verve.

He actually bought the Tatum masters back from MGM. He tried to buy the whole label back but failed.

Was that when he started Pablo, so he could release them and do them the justice that obviously hadn't been served?

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Just receieved mine and playing the Antwerp set. Sound is far better than the Jazzman cd if my memory is correct.

Reading the booklet reminded me that I Miles in London on this tour. My only real recollection of the concert is the audience reaction after the Archie Shepp segment when one or two scuffles broke out between Shepp fans and non-Shepp fans.

Your mention of scuffles between fans and non-fans of Archie Shepp is interesting. Says something about how real the music was to people then. Can anyone imagine that kind of thing happening with today's musicians?

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Have you guys noticed at the end of the DVD it lists in the credits that "Walkin'" was performed? Not on my copy.

I also note that the booklet and back cover do not list Walkin' as being on the DVD.

That track was on the bootleg.

I know this was all discussed before, but I wanted to tie up the loose end.

The bootleg DVD? Or just on the cd?

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Have you guys noticed at the end of the DVD it lists in the credits that "Walkin'" was performed? Not on my copy.

I also note that the booklet and back cover do not list Walkin' as being on the DVD.

That track was on the bootleg.

I know this was all discussed before, but I wanted to tie up the loose end.

The bootleg DVD? Or just on the cd?

I guess I was not clear. What I meant to say was that prior to the issuance of the official Columbia release of Miles in Europe 1967, there was a widely available DVD (it was not released by Columbia) of two european concerts from that tour. THe official release DVD that's in the new set includes all of the tunes there were on that unofficial DVD except for Walkin'.

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I've been checking this out, and (needless to say) it's some truly amazing music.

It's interesting to watch the band perform and see how Miles communicates to them both musically (like the way he leads Tony into the half-time feel on Agitation) and non-verbally (like when he puts his finger up to his ear to tell the guys to listen more carefully). And the occasional intense "Miles glare"........

Also interesting to hear the similar setlists played very differently from night to night (much like on the Plugged Nickle sessions).

Best thirty bucks I ever spent! :tup

I'm pretty certain that when Miles puts his finger to his ear, it is a cue to the soundman that he is not hearing himself as much as he would like and to turn up the monitors or perhaps even the house speakers.

As a trumpet player, I am keenly aware, when watching live videos, of trumpet players trying to get their monitors turned up (they all do it, some more subtle then others).

Edited by david weiss
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I've been checking this out, and (needless to say) it's some truly amazing music.

It's interesting to watch the band perform and see how Miles communicates to them both musically (like the way he leads Tony into the half-time feel on Agitation) and non-verbally (like when he puts his finger up to his ear to tell the guys to listen more carefully). And the occasional intense "Miles glare"........

Also interesting to hear the similar setlists played very differently from night to night (much like on the Plugged Nickle sessions).

Best thirty bucks I ever spent! :tup

I'm pretty certain that when Miles puts his finger to his ear, it is a cue to the soundman that he is not hearing himself as much as he would like and to turn up the monitors or perhaps even the house speakers.

As a trumpet player, I am keenly aware, when watching live videos, of trumpet players trying to get their monitors turned up (they all do it, some more subtle then others).

Yes, I see horn players do this all the time (I do it myself)and that was my first thought, that it was a message to the soundman, but after watching the timing of when he did it (and the way he would fix his "Miles glare" on band members when he did it) I started to think that it was intended as musical direction for the band members.

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I wonder why Walkin' wasn't included on the DVD. Surely there would have been enough space, as the two shows together are under 2 hours. I guess I'll hang on to my Karlsruhe bootleg.

I believe it's because of demands from the estate of Richard Carpenter, the "composer" of the tune.

Couldn't they just retitle it Sid's Ahead, or something? :)

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I wonder why Walkin' wasn't included on the DVD. Surely there would have been enough space, as the two shows together are under 2 hours. I guess I'll hang on to my Karlsruhe bootleg.

I believe it's because of demands from the estate of Richard Carpenter, the "composer" of the tune.

Couldn't they just retitle it Sid's Ahead, or something? :)

We may have talked about this before, but "Walkin'" was first recorded in 1950 by Gene Ammons under the title "Gravy" and (minimal though the line may be) is a Jimmy Mundy composition.

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I wonder why Walkin' wasn't included on the DVD. Surely there would have been enough space, as the two shows together are under 2 hours. I guess I'll hang on to my Karlsruhe bootleg.

I believe it's because of demands from the estate of Richard Carpenter, the "composer" of the tune.

Yeah, so they'd rather get nothing than something reasonable and fair. Never can understand that kind of thinking.

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Got my set last night -- what a great package.

I've a question about the tempo changes. Whenever I've listened to the Plugged Nickel recordings I've imagined Miles directing these on the stage, since the tempo changes radically within tunes (rather than from tune to tune) and isn't dictated by the way the piece is written -- on the Sweden gig, for example, the ballad I Fall in Love Too Easily begins at a crawl, then become incredibly fast; Agitation and Footprints start out quickly then slow right down for the piano solos.

Yet the DVD shows that Miles was off stage when he wasn't playing. So were the tempo changes planned or improvised, and if the latter, who made the decision and how was it signaled?

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I wonder why Walkin' wasn't included on the DVD. Surely there would have been enough space, as the two shows together are under 2 hours. I guess I'll hang on to my Karlsruhe bootleg.

Too bad about Walkin' but I do agree with Lon that the DVD from the new box has better picture and sound than I have ever seen before on this material.

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I wonder why Walkin' wasn't included on the DVD. Surely there would have been enough space, as the two shows together are under 2 hours. I guess I'll hang on to my Karlsruhe bootleg.

Too bad about Walkin' but I do agree with Lon that the DVD from the new box has better picture and sound than I have ever seen before on this material.

Sweden is definitley better on both compared to the versions I've seen before. Karlsruhe is a tad better on picture and more better on sound than my bootleg.

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Got my set last night -- what a great package.

I've a question about the tempo changes. Whenever I've listened to the Plugged Nickel recordings I've imagined Miles directing these on the stage, since the tempo changes radically within tunes (rather than from tune to tune) and isn't dictated by the way the piece is written -- on the Sweden gig, for example, the ballad I Fall in Love Too Easily begins at a crawl, then become incredibly fast; Agitation and Footprints start out quickly then slow right down for the piano solos.

Yet the DVD shows that Miles was off stage when he wasn't playing. So were the tempo changes planned or improvised, and if the latter, who made the decision and how was it signaled?

I think everyone's taking their cue from Tony Williams. (Or maybe not-- maybe Ron Carter or either of them at different times.)

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I wonder why Walkin' wasn't included on the DVD. Surely there would have been enough space, as the two shows together are under 2 hours. I guess I'll hang on to my Karlsruhe bootleg.

I believe it's because of demands from the estate of Richard Carpenter, the "composer" of the tune.

Couldn't they just retitle it Sid's Ahead, or something? :)

We may have talked about this before, but "Walkin'" was first recorded in 1950 by Gene Ammons under the title "Gravy" and (minimal though the line may be) is a Jimmy Mundy composition.

It also has a predecessor in El Sino, recorded by Leo Parker in 1947 - with Ammons on tenor!

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We may have talked about this before, but "Walkin'" was first recorded in 1950 by Gene Ammons under the title "Gravy" and (minimal though the line may be) is a Jimmy Mundy composition.

AMG lists it as being by Ray Brown but they're probably confusing it with Gravy Waltz. On a later record (with Sonny Stitt) Ammons or his record company call it "Walkin'".

Does "Gravy" have the intro Miles uses? (The Leo Parker sort of does.)

Edited by medjuck
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We may have talked about this before, but "Walkin'" was first recorded in 1950 by Gene Ammons under the title "Gravy" and (minimal though the line may be) is a Jimmy Mundy composition.

AMG lists it as being by Ray Brown but they're probably confusing it with Gravy Waltz. On a later record (with Sonny Stitt) Ammons or his record company call it "Walkin'".

Does "Gravy" have the intro Miles uses? (The Leo Parker sort of does.)

"Gravy" does not have the Miles intro, which "El Sino" certainly hints at. Otherwise, "Gravy" is virtually identical to "Walkin'" while "El Sino" is not as close. Further, both Junior Mance and Ira Gilter have said that the line is Mundy's -- Mance, the pianist on the "Gravy" date, adding that Mundy wrote it in Mance's apartment. Finally, our old friend Richard Carpenter was managing "(or "managing") Mundy at the time and perhaps felt free to lay his hands on some of Mundy's work into return for services of one sort or another.

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We may have talked about this before, but "Walkin'" was first recorded in 1950 by Gene Ammons under the title "Gravy" and (minimal though the line may be) is a Jimmy Mundy composition.

Does "Gravy" have the intro Miles uses? (The Leo Parker sort of does.)

"Gravy" does not have the Miles intro, which "El Sino" certainly hints at.

Not at the beginning, but Gravy actually has it as outro! (El Sino and Walkin' use it both as intro and outro)

I couldn't find a video of Gravy, but it exists on Spotify for those who have that.

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