CJ Shearn

Lee Morgan Live at the Lighthouse

86 posts in this topic

The Vamp they play in this version of 'Sidewinder' is from a Freddie Hubbard tune called 'Clarence's Place' (The Body And The Soul, Impulse!, 1963).

When the Lighthouse set came out, I was really puzzled how Lee would have known this tune - it is hardly one of Hubbard's best known. I have the theory that since Freddie wrote it when he was still with Blakey, perhaps it was part of the Messengers' repertoire, and just didn't make it onto any live or studio recordings (official or not).

Any other ideas?

Bertrand.

Hey! Good tip, bertrand. I never would have known.

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"Up" for more discussion, since there was a question elsewhere about this set.

I would sum it up as being very "Charles Tolliver"-like, in some ways, and that much of it has some of that very early 70's "Strata East"-ish vibe to it (and totally in a GOOD way). Nearly all of it is pretty strong, and there isn't but one or maybe two tunes on the whole set that I wouldn't probably give at least 4-stars out of 5 (meaning 3 cd's of this material certainly doesn't seem bloated to me).

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Thanks for bringing this thread to my attention, guys. I deleted my thread in the Recommendations forum.

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I just got burns of the "Fresh Sound" Lee Morgan - Live at the Lighthouse '70 discs (for the very first time), and I had some discographical questions. (And this thread seemed like as good a place as any to post them.)

I know the "Fresh Sound" Lighthouse material wasn't really recorded at the Lighthouse, but rather (I think) a couple weeks(?) earlier, at another venue (the name of which escapes me). I think it was also on the West Coast (wasn't "The Lighthouse" somewhere on the West Coast??) I wanna say that this Fresh Sound release was recorded, like, maybe somewhere in San Francisco??

I know all the tunes are not labeled correctly. At least one of them is a previously unreleased tune that was otherwise never recorded by Lee Morgan. Or (rather) it was recorded - as part of the extra session that's on the U.S. "The Sixth Sense" CD, meaning the session with Frank Mitchell. (Isn't that right??)

So, then, are all the other tunes otherwise labeled correctly?? And which tune (or tunes) are labeled wrong??? Who wrote the mislabeled tunes?? (particularly the one recorded on the date with Frank Michell, which is otherwise unreleased).

4) Anything else I should know about this release??

If all this has been discussed here before, please point me in the right direction. I did a search, and came up with dust. I know I've read all this info before, somewhere, probably back on the old BNBB. Thanks!!!

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OK, answering one of my own questions... The "Fresh Sound" 1970 material was recorded at the "Both/And", San Frabsisco, June ?, 1970.

Still no idea (at least not for sure) what the mis-titled tune or tunes are - anybody got 'em???

Looking in the Blue Note discography (the 2001 edition), I see the following tunes are unlreleased from that session with Frank Michell (recorded on Sept. 13th, 1968).

Blues For Mr. Tatum

The Sleepwalker

The Chief

My memory of a thread long, long ago - on a server far, far away -- says "The Chief" is the tune from this session (unreleased) that is on the "Fresh Sounds" release ("Live at the Lighthouse '70"), and that the version of the "Fresh Sound" release was the only time this tune has ever seen the light of day. (Can anybody confirm that it's "The Chief" that I'm thinking of??)

Also, which tune on the "Fresh Sound" release really is "The Chief" - and not what it's labeled as?? (Assuming I'm remembering right that it's "The Chief" that's really the one on this disc.)

And are all the other tunes labeled correctly???

Edited by Rooster_Ties

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'up' for another try...

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'up' - for a lost cause...

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lee could have known the song also cause he was a top trumpter in the nyc jazz scene at the time and when one of his contemparies writes a good song it gets out and people start playing it and stuff

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Another try...

Looking for discographical corrections about the "Fresh Sound" Lee Morgan material recorded live in 1970. (See my two 'real' posts, several posts above this.)

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Rooster,

How did I miss this thread for so long?

I will check everything tonight and post the results. Here's a sneak preview:

Track #5, CD #1, labelled 'Meo Felia' is actually Harold Mabern's 'The Chief'. This is the same tune that is one of the three rejected tracks from Sixth Sense, and is the same tune that appears on Frank Strozier's What's Goin' On. This tune is unrelated to Maupin's 'Neophilia' from the BN sessions.

Mabern told me the piece was dedicated to John Coltrane.

More to come...

Bertrand.

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Thanks bertrand!!! Listening to "The Chief" now, and it's a cool tune. Shame the studio version didn't cut it. Thanks for checking on this for me. I knew somebody around here knew the details -- just couldn't remember who. Thanks again!!! -- Rooster T.

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Rooster, Vincent,

Sorry, I fell asleep early last night and didn't compare the CDs yet. I will try to do it tonight or tomorrow before I go to my in-laws for Thanksgiving. I am going to go check out a jam session with Butch Warren tonight, so I don't know when I'll get home.

Bertrand.

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Here is the information.

The track listing on the Fresh Sound Live At The Lighthouse '70 is:

CD #1

Peyote (Lee Morgan)

Ceora (Lee Morgan)

Speedball (Lee Morgan)

Willow Weep For Me (Ann Ronell)

Meofelia (Lee Morgan)

CD #2

Rakin' And Scrapin' (Harold Mabern)

Umjanna (Lee Morgan)

Something Like This (Lee Morgan)

Ceora (Lee Morgan)

Speedball/Theme and closing

The correct listing should read:

CD #1

Peyote (Bennie Maupin)

Ceora (Lee Morgan)

Speedball (Lee Morgan)

Willow Weep For Me (Ann Ronell)

The Chief (Harold Mabern)

CD #2

Rakin' And Scrapin' (Harold Mabern)

Yunjanna (Bennie Maupin)

Something Like This (Bennie Maupin)

Ceora (Lee Morgan)

Speedball (Lee Morgan)

(I removed the reference to 'The Theme' so as not to confuse things with Miles Davis' and Art Blakey's theme songs)

I am sure of all of these titles except 'Rakin' And Scrapin'. Mabern recorded this tune for Prestige, but I have not heard it. However, Lee announces it on the CD. Of course, on the Fresh Sound Live In Baltimore '68, Lee announces that he is about to play Hank Mobley's 'The Vamp' and proceeds to play another Mobley tune ('Chain Reaction', perhaps - I'll have to listen again). The difference there is that Mobley was not on the gig. Mabern WAS at the Lighthouse and could have corrected Lee.

Can anyone confirm that track #1 on CD #2 of Lighthouse '70 is indeed the Harold Mabern tune 'Rakin' And Scrapin'?

As for the recording location, it remains a mystery. Belden adresses this issue in the Blue Note CD but does not really resolve it. He confirms that the Fresh Sound tracks are not from the BN vaults as some had suspected. He also says that Maupin suggests that they are from a radio broadcast of a gig at the Both/And in San Francisco a few weeks earlier. However, he does not really confirm this - one would need to hear the actual radio broadcast to be sure. In my opinion, these tapes could still be from the Lighthouse, just from a source other than Blue Note.

By the way, I find it very interesting that none of the four tracks that were on the original Blue Note LP were part of the Fresh Sound set.

Bertrand.

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'Rakin' and Scrapin' on the Morgan Fresh Sounds set is indeed the same tune as the one of that title recorded by John Patton with Marvin Cabell on 'Accent of the Blues', also credited to Mabern.

The 'Lighthouse' has a fairly distinctive acoustic so maybe its worth cross-checking the sound of both sessions. Initial impressions are that the Fresh Sounds has the more 'raucous' audience, however both pianos have the same clinky, out of tune

characteristics to my ears so maybe the location is indeed the Lighthouse? I'm inclined to favour that option but will give both another listen later today...

Edited by sidewinder

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I can confirm that it is indeed Rakin' and Scrapin' as well. I have have the Mabern record (nice record by the way). As for recording location, how about that it says original session produced by Howard Rumsey on the Fresh Sound Lighthouse discs and that there are other Live at the Lighthouse releases on Fresh Sound that also credit Rumsey as "original session producer" and on one, I think Rumsey himself wrote the liner notes.

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Sidewinder, kdd,

Thanks for the confirmation on 'Rakin' And Scrapin'. I totally forgot that Patton covered it.

Bertrand.

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Upping this thread after attending the great tribute on Saturday which included a lot of the material from this package.

The original vinyl had four tracks, one on each side: The Beehive, Nommo, Absolutions and Neophelia. What order were they in?

Thanks,

Bertrand.

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The original vinyl had four tracks, one on each side: The Beehive, Nommo, Absolutions and Neophelia. What order were they in?

Side One : Absolutions

Side Two : The Beehive

Side Three : Neophilia

Side Four : Nommo

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The original vinyl had four tracks, one on each side: The Beehive, Nommo, Absolutions and Neophelia. What order were they in?

Side One : Absolutions

Side Two : The Beehive

Side Three : Neophilia

Side Four : Nommo

First jazz album I ever bought, and it was good enough to inspire me to 36 more years worth (and counting). "Absolutions" especially was amazing to my 17 year old ears. Also one of the great CD reissue jobs by Blue Note, getting all that other material released in the package. I got to meet Mickey Roker several years ago at a Shirley Scott piano concert at the Ethical Society in Philly, and he is a very kind and dignified man. Bennie Maupin and Harold Mabern are also really strong on this album. I also liked the next Lee Morgan album, 'Lee Morgan', with Billy Harper and Moncur on board. That's the one with the amazing version of "Capra Black".

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The original vinyl had four tracks, one on each side: The Beehive, Nommo, Absolutions and Neophelia. What order were they in?

Side One : Absolutions

Side Two : The Beehive

Side Three : Neophilia

Side Four : Nommo

First jazz album I ever bought, and it was good enough to inspire me to 36 more years worth (and counting). "Absolutions" especially was amazing to my 17 year old ears. Also one of the great CD reissue jobs by Blue Note, getting all that other material released in the package. I got to meet Mickey Roker several years ago at a Shirley Scott piano concert at the Ethical Society in Philly, and he is a very kind and dignified man. Bennie Maupin and Harold Mabern are also really strong on this album. I also liked the next Lee Morgan album, 'Lee Morgan', with Billy Harper and Moncur on board. That's the one with the amazing version of "Capra Black".

I was fortunate to see this group (with Billy Harper in place of Bennie Maupin) playing these compositions. Still have the gatefold two LP set, although I naturally picked up the fortified CD box.

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I heard this album for the first time about a year ago when I found the original album on lp(s). I loved it so much I ended up buying the three disc set on cd. It was worth every penny. I'll probably keep the vinyl but I have to admit I play the cds now. There are very few 3 cd sets as strong as that one. I really liked where Lee Morgan was heading. Those last few albums (or at least the ones I've heard) were some of my favorite Lee Morgan moments. I find myself wondering what if .....

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I just can't get into this album. Maybe it's because I have the attention span of a flea, but these songs just go on too long for me and never really get all that interesting.

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