University of the Streets - NYC

[clifford_thornton]

Why are you calling me out? What is your aggression towards me? I can't spend ALL my time on the o-board.

Anyway: If it is being run as a club, it's a club. The behavior is out of control and I know the victim personally.

Edited September 13, 2011 by clifford_thornton

[papsrus]

Getting punched over $50?

Times are tough.

[jlhoots]

Getting punched over $50?

Times are tough.

My thought exactly.

This is pathetic.

[fasstrack]

I have no aggression toward you, Clifford. Sorry if it came off like that. That's the problem with web posting. One-dimensional. You know the victim, I knew and was employed by the original owmer. We both stuck up for our friends. Of course I'm sorry your friend got punched, and if I insulted you I apologize. Maybe I took sides too hastily too. I think we should wait for the air to clear and the facts to come in. Don't you?

[ValerieB]

I have no aggression toward you, Clifford. Sorry if it came off like that. That's the problem with web posting. One-dimensional. You know the victim, I knew and was employed by the original owmer. We both stuck up for our friends. Of course I'm sorry your friend got punched, and if I insulted you I apologize. Maybe I took sides too hastily too. I think we should wait for the air to clear and the facts to come in. Don't you?

what's the "original owner" got to do with anything?!?

[Leeway]

Here's a link to some more (not much but a bit more) information about the incident. The comments are interesting.

UOTS Article

[ValerieB]

Here's a link to some more (not much but a bit more) information about the incident. The comments are interesting.

UOTS Article

most of the posts sound like they come from thugs!! LOL

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, that particular comments thread is ridiculous.

[Leeway]

Here's a link to some more (not much but a bit more) information about the incident. The comments are interesting.

UOTS Article

most of the posts sound like they come from thugs!! LOL

Yeah, that particular comments thread is ridiculous.

Weird--it's a vegan site!

[ValerieB]

Here's a link to some more (not much but a bit more) information about the incident. The comments are interesting.

UOTS Article

most of the posts sound like they come from thugs!! LOL

Yeah, that particular comments thread is ridiculous.

Weird--it's a vegan site!

can you imagine if they ate meat?!? what an irony although we know it doesn't mean the posters are vegetarians. they do sound like "vegetables" though! LOL

[fasstrack]

Valerie: To me it has a lot to do with it. Mostly b/c if this jazz is true I'd like to know how it got so off the track from what he was about. I do know that going way back everyone using any of the spaces had to pay for them b/c the heating bill alone for a building that size is nuts. Barry paid, people still pay. When I played for the singers then the only way they could make costs and pay the trio of me, Billy Kaye or Kalil Madi, and different bassists was to charge singers I think $10 or $15 per. We didn:t get paid that well and and they definitely were making nada. But it was good for the singers and us too b/c we had to play all their tunes in all kinds of keys. We're supposed to know that. Anyway, that was Mohammed's thing, giving people a platform and a little bread for the band. I don't know what happened since he passed away and this is troubling to read. I wasn't there and haven't been in some years. But I have a feeling this was a misundesstanding among nerve-jangled poor folks. And a damn shame.

[Leeway]

OK, so now we get the "other side" of the story. After having read it, here are my conclusions:

1) they should stop writing ALL IN CAPS!

2) they realize that punching out a musician equals punching out their revenue stream (admittedly small, but hey);

3) they (UOTS) are guilty as sin.

Here's the link to the statement. The comments below are great. Click th link over to the Facebook page. Some more great comments, many from fellow musicians.

UOTS STATEMENT!!

PS: This statement is priceless:

"IN THE MELEE THE BAND-MEMBER'S FACE CONNECTED WITH THE ATTENDEES HAND. UNFORTUNATELY, BECAUSE MR. SHEA WAS WEARING NON-SAFETY TYPE SUNGLASSES, A SMALL INJURY OCCURRED"

Edited September 26, 2011 by Leeway

[Tom Storer]

So basically, they're saying that Kevin Shea et al. reneged on their agreement to pony up 50 bucks, were loud, insulting, chaotic and threatening, and the "executive director" was just trying to protect himself when the unfortunate injury occurred.

Not having been there, and not knowing any of the people involved, I don't know how likely this is. But I take it with large grains of salt.

[clifford_thornton]

Talibam shows consist of a lot of weird antics. Chaos is just part of the gig. Connecting an eye with a fist usually isn't, however.

[Chicago Expat]

My favorite Anonymous quote:

The important take away here is: bands, please wear your safety goggles at all times; before, during and after performances.

[ValerieB]

sounds like there was a lot of disrespect flying around from the band that night but that doesn't excuse the violence.

[david weiss]

This is a tough one for me. I thought I should probably just stay out of it but some more info might give you guys some perspective.

University of the Streets had jam sessions every weekend and when I first moved make to New York, this was one of the jam sessions I frequented.

I got to play with C Sharp, Tommy Turrentine, Frank Gant, Jimmy Lovelace and many others then. A lot of guys who were on one or two records you would know were around then as well. I can't think of many off the top of my head but the likes of Jimmy Robinson (the trumpet player on Dexter's Blows Hot and Cool I think) was the type that hung out here. Later on Jimmy Vass ran the session then George Braith. Me and George called it the gym, we went there to get (or stay) in shape. The guy who ran it all, Muhammad, was a very sweet guy and was very supportive of me. He would let me use the space sometimes to rehearse and always encouraged me to use the space to teach or put on a concert but we never really followed through with that.

Things changed after he died and I don't want to get too into that. Let's just say it's not the same but how could it, this guy had such a presence and was such the force behind the place.

I've heard about the $50 pay to play policy that is now in effect.

I will say this much. I have to assume the band knew about said policy. I can also venture a guess (with no real knowledge) that the band could have quite possibly acted like idiots. What I read of "managements" response to this actually read quite reasonable until the classic "THE BAND-MEMBER'S FACE CONNECTED WITH THE ATTENDEES HAND. UNFORTUNATELY, BECAUSE MR. SHEA WAS WEARING NON-SAFETY TYPE SUNGLASSES, A SMALL INJURY OCCURRED". .

This is hilarious of course and makes them lose all credibility. I can however see a scenario where spoiled young musicians don't think they have to pay the $50 and act like idiots and one of them gets clocked in the face for their efforts. They then mount a viral campaign to boycott the place. I'd say they are both wrong but the biggest problem is the violence. There is no place in all this for that at all but I do understand the impulse to deck a kid who is acting up like this. We just don't act on those impulses of course. This is all unfortunate to me. It's sad to see this place I valued so much at one point in my life get infamous for this incident.

Edited September 28, 2011 by david weiss

[AllenLowe]

I'm with David on this - yes, funny stuff - it's like someone defending themselves in court for shooting someone on the grounds that the victim failed to wear a bullet-proof vest.