42 replies to this topic

[Jim Alfredson]

In November we should be done with the basic tracking for the next organissimo album. It is tentatively titled "Dedicated" and each tune is written for a specific person who has influenced our music. I hope to have it out by early spring.

The poll question is rather self-explanatory. Should we even bother pressing physical CDs? I've literally boxes of the previous four releases sitting in my attic. Hundreds and hundreds of them. Most sales these days are through iTunes, Amazon.com's mp3 service, Rhapsody, etc. Yes, some folks still purchase CDs, but not very many. Especially since we are not touring or playing as many gigs these days as we used to, due to my commitment to Janiva Magness' band. We sell most of our physical inventory on gigs.

We don't have the budget to do a radio promotion this time around and it never really did us much good anyway in terms of sales or booking gigs, mainly because we don't have the infrastructure behind us to take advantage of it (ie, no booking agent, no management agency, etc.) so I'm not really concerned about whether or not radio gets the disc. Same for reviewers.

One idea I've been contemplating is doing a very limited run, say 300 discs, like I did with my solo release. Send 100 to the top jazz stations that supported us the most last time around (instead of the usual 250) and then have 200 for sale on the web. Once they're gone, they are gone.

Just looking for some opinions. Myself... I haven't bought an actual CD in years. I usually buy mp3s from Amazon due to their high bitrate vs. iTunes. It seems to be closer to a dead format than ever.

[mjzee]

If you're going to manufacture a CD, I think you need to make it a "collectible." Not just the music in a jewel box with an insert with a picture and track listings, but something special in addition. You'd have to give some thought to what that might be, since it needs to be genuine and integral to the group.

Another thing to consider is an LP/CD combo, or even an LP/CD/mp3 combo. The LP in and of itself makes the package a collectible. Also, an LP requires an LP-sized cover, which is far more attractive and alluring than a CD-sized cover. Maybe also signed by the band members?

[ejp626]

While I don't know the ins and outs, I can't imagine that it would be worth pressing 300 or 500 LPs. That strikes me as real money.

Personally, I am 60% CDs, 40% mp3s, but that is mostly because in many cases, you can get used CDs for next to nothing. Since you aren't gigging and selling CDs, you probably shouldn't press many this time around. I wouldn't have any problem just with MP3s.

[Leeway]

Your plan to press a small number of CDs and go mp3 for the rest makes a lot of sense, This wasn't given as an option in the poll. Unless you're touring a lot, it wouldn't make sense to invest in a large physical inventory of CDs and LPs, which you could sell at gigs. Since you are not, I'd put the CDs on CD Baby and downloads on iTunes or Amazon.

Your comment about unsold stock in the attic reminds me of what Thoreau said:

A Week on the Concord and Merrimack Rivers published in 1849 was so unsuccessful that Thoreau was forced to buy back more than 700 unsold copies, out of 1,000 the publisher had printed. "I now have a library of nearly nine hundred volumes," Thoreau quipped in his journal, "over seven hundred of which I wrote myself."


Of course, one would dearly love to have one of those books now!

[A Lark Ascending]

I think your 300 CDs + Download option should work well.

You have a loyal base here, many of whom like their physical CD. They'll probably snap them up on release.

In the long-term I can't see the physical CD surviving beyond the sort of mega seller that might shift in a supermarket and special editions for collectors (a bit like vinyl today). Seems like you are adapting to that market with your Download + limited CD run model.

[Bright Moments]

i'm in for a cd!

[mikeweil]

One idea I've been contemplating is doing a very limited run, say 300 discs, like I did with my solo release. Send 100 to the top jazz stations that supported us the most last time around (instead of the usual 250) and then have 200 for sale on the web. Once they're gone, they are gone.

I still prefer a "real" CD to one that I downloaded and burned myself. If you do a limited pressing, maybe on a subscription basis, that would serve all parties, just like you said. I will pre-order a copy, promised, even though my funds are more limited than ever.

[BeBop]

One more vote for (at least a limited) CD option. The only music I've ever downloaded is the Organissimo live and holiday material. So I'm not totally resistant, but it's a hard-sell here.

[Dan Gould]

I would go for a FLAC option if it were offered, otherwise I'd probably buy one of the CDs over doing an MP3 download. I went for that option with the Brian Lynch Unsung Heroes volumes - the FLAC files sound great, they were cheaper than the physical CD would have been, and included a PDF of the liner notes. I'd hope you could do the same thing.

No vote from me though because the choices don't actually match the topic ...

Edited by Dan Gould, 16 October 2011 - 04:10 PM.

[GregK]

If you must do download, at least make it FLAC.

I buy physical media (mostly CDs, some vinyl). I only buy downloads when I am forced to, i.e. the Anthony Braxton subscription site, or the King Crimson live series, neither of which are offered in physical formats. And I am finding that I already forgot what I have downloaded! It helps to have a professionally pressed CD.

[medjuck]

Hard to say without knowing what it costs to make cds, but I like the idea of "pressing" 300 cds as a limited edition and then download only.

[Aggie87]

I would buy the cd, but not likely MP3's.

I guess with that said, I wouldn't want you with hundreds of extra cds sitting around collecting dust, either. I'm on board with the limited CD run option, as perhaps your best choice to satisfy the cd collectors here on the board, as well as for some to sell at gigs.

I'm open minded/eared, and look forward to this album, but it won't be the same without Joe.

[Jim Alfredson]

I'm open minded/eared, and look forward to this album, but it won't be the same without Joe.

That is certainly the truth. I very much miss playing with Joe.

The new guitarist is very good and a very different player from Joe. It will be a different sound.

Thanks for all the replies. I have more thinking to do.

[Hardbopjazz]

How about signing the first 150 copies or something like that? I prefer hard copies of music.

Edited by Hardbopjazz, 17 October 2011 - 10:37 AM.

[kh1958]

I would buy a CD; if it is only mp3/flac, I probably will not.

[Dave James]

If hundreds previous Organissimo releases are gathering dust in your attic, and you decide to go with a the physical format for your newest release, why not make it a 2 for 1 deal and throw in one of the older CD's with each purchase of a new one?

[Dan Gould]

Because most people buying the new one already have the old one and wouldn't be interested in a two-for-one unless they had friends to give the earlier release to?

[JSngry]

Whatever you decide, don't shy away from offering a ringtone or three.

[A Lark Ascending]

You could always make the 300 physical run an 8 CD set with lavish packaging - 1 disc with the official album, 4 with the same music in different formats, a live disc and 2 of out-takes, in-takes or under-takes.

Oh, and don't forget the secret 'reversed polarity' ninth disc.

[mr jazz]

Happy to continue to support the band via cd purchase but a FLAC download is ok as well.

[Quincy]

You could always make the 300 physical run an 8 CD set with lavish packaging - 1 disc with the official album, 4 with the same music in different formats, a live disc and 2 of out-takes, in-takes or under-takes.

Oh, and don't forget the secret 'reversed polarity' ninth disc.

Given Jim's talents a pie (instead of marbles, sunglasses or a scarf) could also be included for an extra $100.

Is it possible to have a run of just 100 pressed CDs yet order extra prints of the artwork and send CD-Rs to radio & reviewers? (Perhaps this isn't a good idea as it makes a band seem less professional, and given how we have both radio & reviewers here they'll chime in about this.) Personally unless you are certain you can recoup the costs of pressing discs I would lean heavily towards download only. FLAC would be nice, but if that adds costs that make it tough to break even then go for a respectable bitrate on the mp3.

[JSngry]

I'm serious about the ringtones btw.

[Clunky]

I've never bought any jazz as a download, I'll be looking for a physical format of some sort for some time be it shellac, vinyl or silvered disc.

[Chuck Nessa]

I've never bought any jazz as a download, I'll be looking for a physical format of some sort for some time be it shellac, vinyl or silvered disc.

But we are a dead breed. The standard download deal is lousy for the "owner". Horrible returns for xxxx downloads.

[JSngry]

That's why you sell the ringtones. Pure profit, almost.

[Uncle Skid]

I'm open minded/eared, and look forward to this album, but it won't be the same without Joe.

I had the pleasure of meeting Ralph this weekend. Besides being a wonderful, warm person, he's a fantastic guitar player as well. I miss Joe, too, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Perhaps more than just surprised -- Randy and Jim have found a worthy successor.

Jim -- regarding this CD debate -- if you go the download route, please do it in loss-less (preferably FLAC) format. You, the band, and so many others, spend so much time and money getting this recording sounding just the way you want, I'd hate to see it potentially comprised by MP3 compression. If I could download what is effectively the same thing as the CD, that would be far preferable over MP3s. A PDF booklet would be a nice touch, too.

And, yes, I'm fully aware that MP3 compression above a certain (arbitrary?) bit-rate is sonically indistinguishable over the actual CD... but, I don't care. Server bandwidth is relatively inexpensive.

It's taken me many years to comes to terms with it, but Chuck is right.

FLAC files, PDF booklet, please.

Edited by Uncle Skid, 18 October 2011 - 06:11 PM.

[mjzee]

Have you considered cassette?

Miss the Hiss? Fanatics Flip for Tunes on Cassette Tapes

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Jim,

I assume you are recording this digitally, correct? If so, I'll delete my vote for LP. LPs of digitally recorded sessions are really not necessary unless the mastering engineer messes up the CD version. I've been buying a lot of vinyl these days because many (most?) of today's CDs sound like crap with all of the dynamics squashed flat. I doubt your CD would fall into that category.

Kevin

[Tom in RI]

Count me in for a cd.

[Jim Alfredson]

Ok, so the consensus is to make a physical CD. That means we need to raise money. We've done a decent job in the past with the private pre-orders but I'm thinking this time around to take it to Kickstarter and see if we can raise enough to do a full run of 1,000 discs for regular folk and radio and maybe a special run of 100 discs with different art / packaging for the collectors. And maybe have enough left over to do a mild media push (radio / press).

To do that would take about $8-10k. Without the media push it would be $5-7k. Considering the folks here and on other forums and social networking sites I'm involved in, I think it may be possible. Thoughts?