142 replies to this topic

[Chuck Nessa]

How can labels currently paying artists, studios, engineers, note writers, etc compete with cheap xeroxes of other peoples work? Death to those few still trying.

[JSngry]

I mean, really?

[Chuck Nessa]

dang.

[JSngry]

But wait, there's more!







And still more!









Help yourself!

[GA Russell]

How can labels currently paying artists, studios, engineers, note writers, etc compete with cheap xeroxes of other peoples work? Death to those few still trying.

By the way, Chuck, I see that Amazon is sold out of your Warne Marsh. That must be good news, indicating that people are buying it. Congrats!

http://www.amazon.com/All-Music-Warne-Marsh/dp/B00094CW7G/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1HSTYF7Y93WQ7&colid=RVSBV717YT9

[mikelz777]

I might have to pick this one up along with the Gryce. I only have "Blue Hour" in this set.

[sidewinder]

I might have to pick this one up along with the Gryce. I only have "Blue Hour" in this set.

Looks like they beat Mosaic to the Three Sounds big box..

[rdavenport]

I know what you mean. This could be the most viable future of jazz reissues. GRRR.

I'm not sure any future jazz reissues are viable, seriously.

That must make a couple of members who are involved in doing reissues feel very good.

It gives me no pleasure to say it - I simply can't see that there can be a market, other than the diehards.

[Niko]

i don't get why there's still market for this type of cheap reissue (both legit and less legit) where you buy a huge pile of albums with little documentation in ugly packaging ... as far as i can see this type of release becomes more and more common - but in the age of downloads and free streaming sites to me this seems like the opposite of what i would have expected to happen - i can listen to, say, the hank mobley mosaic legally and for free anytime i want - why should i spent money on "3 classic albums" in that type of package.

[Big Beat Steve]

i don't get why there's still market for this type of cheap reissue (both legit and less legit) where you buy a huge pile of albums with little documentation in ugly packaging ... as far as i can see this type of release becomes more and more common - but in the age of downloads and free streaming sites to me this seems like the opposite of what i would have expected to happen - i can listen to, say, the hank mobley mosaic legally and for free anytime i want - why should i spent money on "3 classic albums" in that type of package.

a) Because you don't like downloads?
b) Because you would have to convert/burn your donwloads to CD for physical archiving afterwards anyway and do not feel comfortable enough with doing that, especialy if ready-made CDs are that dirt cheap?
c) Because you already have part of the material on CD and would like to get the rest but shy away from it because for some reason one or two particular CDs are either very expensive (for hardly any good reason at all) or unavailable?
etc. etc.

I for one am not overly keen on cheap packaging and lack of liner notes etc. either but if you have been in this collecting field long enough to have been forced to live through the utter darkness of shoddy repackaging, nondescript covers, awkwardly modernized artwork, lack of liner notes or session info etc. throughout the entire 70s (and often well beyond) you can probably live with the occasional "cheapo" packaging as long as it is only a stopgap and you do the bulk of your collecting with more properly presented CDs (and even many of those PD labels often come u with quite adequate info in their booklets).
All in all it's a tradeoff, I think, just like many around here probably would defend their choice of "Proper" boxes as the purchase of them on artists they have huge gaps to fill with would leave them more money to buy "full-price" releases/reissues where they only need to fill individual gaps in a more targeted manner.

[mikelz777]

Does anyone here have experience with these sets? Since it is 8 albums on 4 discs, do all the albums fit neatly on a disc or are there some albums that would be split between two discs to make them fit? It would be kind of a drag if the flow of an album was broken up between two discs.

[ejp626]

Does anyone here have experience with these sets? Since it is 8 albums on 4 discs, do all the albums fit neatly on a disc or are there some albums that would be split between two discs to make them fit? It would be kind of a drag if the flow of an album was broken up between two discs.

I can't speak about these ones specifically, though most of the time the Avid releases try not to split albums across CDs. On the other hand, the Felsted Mainstream collection box set (9 albums on 5 CDs) has several of these splits, so I'm going to have to do some ripping and reprogramming.

[JETman]

Does anyone here have experience with these sets? Since it is 8 albums on 4 discs, do all the albums fit neatly on a disc or are there some albums that would be split between two discs to make them fit? It would be kind of a drag if the flow of an album was broken up between two discs.

I can't speak about these ones specifically, though most of the time the Avid releases try not to split albums across CDs. On the other hand, the Felsted Mainstream collection box set (9 albums on 5 CDs) has several of these splits, so I'm going to have to do some ripping and reprogramming.

Fresh Sound just released a version of this box with each of the 9 albums given its own individual disc.

http://www.freshsoundrecords.com/the_complete_stanley_dance_felsted_mainstream_jazz_recordings_1958-1959_9-cd_box_set-cd-5596.html

[mikeweil]

I might have to pick this one up along with the Gryce. I only have "Blue Hour" in this set.

Looks like they beat Mosaic to the Three Sounds big box..

Three questions: Will it include the bonus tracks from the Blue Note reissue of the Three Sounds Blue Note debut? Will it include the bonus tracks from the Nat Adderley Riverside album? Will it include the bonus material from the Blue Hour sessions?


Answer: Probably not - with these added the 8 albums would no longer fit on four CDs.



p.s. looks like the Japanese The Three Sound Vol. 2 will be included ...

Checked the link inserted by Mikeweil above but could not see the Gryce set there.

Yes - that page needs to be updated! And they are not very generous as far as track listings etc. are concerned ...

[jazzbo]

Vol.2 = the bonus tracks on Introducing the Three Sounds US cd.

[ejp626]

Fresh Sound just released a version of this [Felsted] box with each of the 9 albums given its own individual disc.

http://www.freshsoundrecords.com/the_complete_stanley_dance_felsted_mainstream_jazz_recordings_1958-1959_9-cd_box_set-cd-5596.html

Right, this was discussed on the other thread. I'd rather have the compact box, esp. as most of these albums are right at the 40 minute mark. Sound quality is probably about the same for both

[felser]

Does anyone here have experience with these sets? Since it is 8 albums on 4 discs, do all the albums fit neatly on a disc or are there some albums that would be split between two discs to make them fit? It would be kind of a drag if the flow of an album was broken up between two discs.

No bonus cuts on these. Haven't seen any albums broken up. They abruptly cut off about 2 minutes at the end of one key track on the Kenny Dorham set to fit the two albums on one CD (very annoying), but have not hit any other missing or abridged cuts. I have four or five of these. I'd much rather have a Proper or an Avid or a Lonehill in general.

[sonnymax]

I'd rather "steal" free FLAC files from sharity blogs than pay for stuff like this.

I don't get it. Do you abstain from buying Dickens because his heirs don't get paid either?

Both Dickens and Gryce are dead. How cold does the body have to be?

The point is, even if you can't support the artist, why support the thief? Personally,
I like the idea of stealing that which is not rightfully yours. Call it poetic justice.

Like my man Omar says:



All in the game, yo.

[GA Russell]

I'd rather "steal" free FLAC files from sharity blogs than pay for stuff like this.

I don't get it. Do you abstain from buying Dickens because his heirs don't get paid either?

Both Dickens and Gryce are dead. How cold does the body have to be?

The point is, even if you can't support the artist, why support the thief?

sonnymax, do you understand the concepts of copyright and public domain? Real Gone are not thieves. These are works in the public domain in Europe, just like Charles Dickens' works.

[JSngry]

Keep in mind, though, that these issues are actually not legal in the United States. Last I looked, a fair amount of this stuff is actually still in print here.

But even if they are not "thiefs" in their own land(s), they most definitely are opportunists of the slimiest, crassest kind imaginable, carney barkers who choose not to even bathe once a week.

[Niko]

and if you buy one you won't go to heaven no matter what the test in mikelz777's signature tells you.

(plus if you buy it from the US, someone is guilty of something - and if you're aware of that then at least morally part of the guilt is yours - like if you order cocain from a place where it's not illegal) (plus if you buy something which looks so ugly - ...)

[mikelz777]

Well, despite the naysayers here, I placed an order for the Gryce. I'd be happy to report on it once I receive it and give it a listen. I don't see anything in this set that I would have bought otherwise were it not for this set. Some of the prices out there for the individual discs from 2nd and 3rd party sellers are outrageous.

[jlhoots]

I'd rather "steal" free FLAC files from sharity blogs than pay for stuff like this.

I don't get it. Do you abstain from buying Dickens because his heirs don't get paid either?

Both Dickens and Gryce are dead. How cold does the body have to be?

The point is, even if you can't support the artist, why support the thief? Personally,
I like the idea of stealing that which is not rightfully yours. Call it poetic justice.

Like my man Omar says:



All in the game, yo.

I miss Omar too.

[David Ayers]

Go for it. Ignore the hypocrites.

[sonnymax]

I'd rather "steal" free FLAC files from sharity blogs than pay for stuff like this.

I don't get it. Do you abstain from buying Dickens because his heirs don't get paid either?

Both Dickens and Gryce are dead. How cold does the body have to be?

The point is, even if you can't support the artist, why support the thief?

sonnymax, do you understand the concepts of copyright and public domain? Real Gone are not thieves. These are works in the public domain in Europe, just like Charles Dickens' works.

As Jim pointed out, the copyright is in effect in the U.S., which is where you live and where Real Gone sells some of its ill-gotten booty. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens when the E.U. adopts the extended copyright laws. My guess is nothing will change. Perhaps they'll move to Andorra!

[JSngry]

Who needs Andorra when you've got the Internet?

[paul secor]

All of us should listen to more new music.

[Big Beat Steve]

As Jim pointed out, the copyright is in effect in the U.S., which is where you live and where Real Gone sells some of its ill-gotten booty. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens when the E.U. adopts the extended copyright laws. My guess is nothing will change. Perhaps they'll move to Andorra!

If you study those (im)pending changes to the European copyright law (plus the thread on that subject on this forum) then you will see that this coypright is NOT retroacive. i.e. the cutoff date for recordings that had already fallen into the public domain by the time this "law" becomes effective will remain as itn is - 50 years. Those that have NOT yet reached that 50-year cutoff date will henceforth be copyright-protected for 70 years.
So you could nail down those reissuers for post-1961 reordings but not for older ones.

As for being a U.S. buyer or not, isn't there rather much of a "holier than thou" attitude involved? (See the eternal debate of "Proper box" vs "Andorran" (in Fact, Catalonian) reissuers, for example).

Edited by Big Beat Steve, 24 October 2011 - 11:20 AM.

[Niko]

i always forget these things and they don't really matter, but doesn't the original artwork have a longer protection? same for remastering and stuff unless they do their own vinyl rips?

[JSngry]

As for being a U.S. buyer or not, isn't there rather much of a "holier than thou" attitude involved? (See the eternal debate of "Proper box" vs "Andorran" (in Fact, Catalonian) reissuers, for example).

I don't know about anybody else, but I don't buy any of that stuff "new", and will only pay for it used if it's at garage sale prices. Proper is pretty, but still sleazy, the Andorrans are "classy", but still sleazy, and although the Chornological (or however they spell it) Classics packages are well-intentioned, well-enough executed, and benign in spirit, they're still no substitute in quality or ethicality for a good reissue made from and by the original "sources",

If I have the want/need, I'll buy a copy of an issue where I know that, at least in theory, copyrights & royalties (such as they are) are being paid and/or concerted original effort was put into the remastering (and this is where all the "pretty" boys like Proper and such fail, they just flat out snatch the food off of somebody else's plate and then dress it up all cheap hi-dollar whorish and take it down to the street corner like they GOT something...they do - somebody else's stuff). Other that that, hey, the Internet is my friend.

Users who have extreme budgetary constraints and/or different home town copyright laws have every right to follow their own compunctions. My compunctions are that if you're gonna take my woman and then try to sell her back to me, you damn well better have added some real, lasting value and not just given her a boob job and taught her how to be a slut for just anydamnbody.

Then again, there seems to be no shortage of a market for sluttery these days.