Bach solo violin: HIP recommendations?

[T.D.]

Have owned Grumiaux's recording for years. Have been listening a lot lately, and want to hear some others. Prefer to go the HIP route rather than Milstein, Szeryng, etc. (not that there's anything wrong with them, of course...).

Any recommendations? Cursory searches turn up the names Tetzlaff, Zehetmair and Wallfisch. Tetzlaff samples sound pretty good. Don't know much about the HIP realm, open to suggestions. Thanks.

Edited October 21, 2011 by T.D.

[mikeweil]

My favourite is Monica Hugget:

Look for this rather cheap reissue, copies of the first edition are overpriced. What I like about her rendition is that she makes the pieces sound concentrated but not as though they are the most difficult stuff around - it's music, high level but enjoyable, not just a lot of work end effort behind her playing.

There is more than a dozen HIP recording now - they are as diversified as can be. Maybe the brand new one by Amandine Beyer is one to check out ...

[paul secor]

Any opinions on Lucy van Dael's two CDs on Naxos?

[Leeway]

Have owned Grumiaux's recording for years. Have been listening a lot lately, and want to hear some others. Prefer to go the HIP route rather than Milstein, Szeryng, etc. (not that there's anything wrong with them, of course...).

Any recommendations? Cursory searches turn up the names Tetzlaff, Zehetmair and Wallfisch. Tetzlaff samples sound pretty good. Don't know much about the HIP realm, open to suggestions. Thanks.

I'd go with the Wallfisch myself. I admire Zehetmair but I don't think he is what you are looking for here. Tetzlaff has not caught my interest FWIW (nothing really).

[T.D.]

Thanks. I'm also seeing enthusiasm for Rachel Podger. She gets bashed by Classics Today's Jed Distler (2/10 "artistic quality"), but he's a critic whose tastes are very different from mine (certainly in the pianistic realm), so I'm inclined to disregard his opinion.

Strange, I've really "rediscovered" the violin S/P recently. Weirdly, I was motivated by listening to several versions of Busoni's piano transcription of the great Chaconne from Partita #2 in D minor. The cello suites seem to get more discussion, but the violin works are surely no less worthy of attention. (Granted, I've listened to the cello suites much more often over the years, but I now can't say why...)

[J.A.W.]

Haven't heard many different versions. I've owned the Grumiaux for years and my current favourite is Rachel Podger on Channel Classics. Her baroque violin "sound" is wonderful, airy and not too heavy, and she plays these pieces with a kind of ease that I like. Another good version is Viktoria Mullova's Onyx recording. I never really liked what she did, but lately her playing has become much more interesting, at least to my ears.

I've heard snippets of Monica Huggett's and Lucy van Dael's versions. Their sound is too "seriously authentic", too heavy for me in these works.

Edited October 22, 2011 by J.A.W.

[mracz]

Another vote for Podger. Lyrical, dramatic or monumental as required. Great stuff.

[mikeweil]

Podger's is certainly one to consider. Not quite my taste, but sure excellent.

Only half of 'em, but also very, very good:

Not cheap (Japanese Import), but also excellent:

Also brand new:

Judging from sound samples I heard, this might be another candidate:

[T.D.]

Many thanks!

Decided to go for Rachel Podger. Good opinions here confirmed external reviews. Clips sounded pretty good, too.

[mandrill]

I'd suggest to try Helene Schmitt on Alpha Productions (Alpha's splendid packaging comes as a bonus).

A brand new one by Amandine Beyer should be interesting, judging from her chaconne on another recording.

[Larry Kart]

It ain't literally HIP, but the best I know is Gidon Kremer on ECM.

[T.D.]

I've heard a lot of Kremer over the years, but not in these works. I know he's an excellent musician, but I find his tone a little "wiry", not fully to my taste (though I don't claim it's anything more than personal taste).

I prefer Kremer in contemporary repertory, where his tone seems less jarring to me, even apropos in things like Nono's La lontananza nostalgica utopica futura.

[king ubu]

Which meaning of HIP is being referred to here?

HIP Home Information Pack (UK Homes Bill)

HIP Host Identity Protocol

HIP Health Insurance Plan

HIP Healthy Indiana Plan

HIP Hot Isostatic Pressing

HIP Hispanics in Philanthropy (San Francisco, CA)

HIP Highly Integrated Photonics

HIP Historically Informed Performance (classical music)

HIP Human Information Processing

HIP Hacking In Progress

HIP Hospital Infections Program (US CDC)

HIP Human Interactive Proof

HIP Harlem Irving Plaza

HIP Hoover Institution Press

HIP Hearing Impaired Person

HIP Harvard Institute of Proteomics

HIP Hand-In-Paw

HIP Help for Incontinent People (now NAFC: National Association For Continence)

HIP HSSI Interface Processor (Cisco)

HIP Highway Improvement Program (various locations)

HIP Hospital Indemnity Plan

HIP Host-Based Intrusion Prevention System

HIP Hrvatski Istinski Preporod (Croatian True Revival Party)

HIP High Injection Pressure

HIP Howitzer Improvement Program

HIP History In your Pocket (US Mint children's coin collecting)

HIP Hardware Instrumentation Package

HIP Host Interface Processor

HIP Home Inspector Pro (inspection software)

HIP Homes in Partnership, Inc.

HIP Home Investment Package (Anaheim, CA Public Utilities Department)

HIP Hyperspectral Image Projector

HIP Hip Inflatable Protection (bag)

HIP Hazard Insurance Premium

HIP Health Information Place

HIP Homeless Initiative Partnership (Florida)

HIP Hazard Identification Process

HIP Hunger Intervention Program (Seattle, WA)

HIP Highly Important Person

HIP Home Installation Professionals

HIP Hormone and Information Processing (study)

HIP Human Interface Parser

HIP Higher Intermediate Fare Check (airfare construction)

HIP Hardware Interface Processor

HIP HRU Interface Processor

HIP Healthcare Incentive Plan

HiP Hluhluwe-iMfolozi Park (South Africa)

HIP High Intensity Proton

HIP History in Perspective (education)

HIP Health in Pregnancy (UK)

HIP Health in Practice (various locations)

HIP Home Improvement Program (various organizations)

HIP Health Improvement Program (various organizations)

HIP Health Information Professional

I've got partial recordings by Heifetz, Rabin (actually just the third sonata), Hahn (haven't yet listened - quite a choice for a debut album!) - and the complete ones by Szeryng (still new, but my impression is that they're absolutely fantastic!), Milstein (I love his tone, generally adore his playing, but yeah, I can kind of relate to those that aren't entirely convinced) and ... Szigeti!

Not sure if he's HIP (or hip), but these are stunning performances!

[mikeweil]

Szigeti is not HIP ...

[MomsMobley]

Mandrill, how'd you get hip to Helene Schmitt? I'm a big fan of her work and much of the label's Bach, especially the Cafe Zimmermann and Celine Frisch, whose Goldberg is THEE best harpsichord version bar none.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeALpnLyb5o

I know it's a tuff sell re: more Bach concertos but I think this equals or even beats Freibourg Baroque, my previous standard + Cafe Zimmermann give you more--

http://www.amazon.com/Concertos-I-VI-J-S-Bach/dp/B005IQXUQW

Bach solo violin--

Modern: Zehetmair, Kremer, Julia Fischer (the last three all HIP influence)... If you gotta go old school, both Milstein are still tolerable but Mullova is better Bach tho' the great Isabelle Faust has only recorded half of 'em so far, when complete hers will almost certainly be way up there--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC6W-6it_AU

HIP: while I can appreciate my estimable colleague Mike Weil's advocacy of Huggett, I find her too sober for my tastes; likewise Podger, Van Dael, Wallfisch, etc. Kuijken is a straight snooze. In that general bag, John Holloway is best/most interesting, I think, but for pure pleasure, I'll whip out Schmitt and the recent-ish Amandine Beyer on Zig Zag, which I'm still living with but is more than provisionally excellent--

http://www.amazon.fr/Bach-Sonates-partitas-pour-violon/dp/B005H3HXQE

I'd suggest to try Helene Schmitt on Alpha Productions (Alpha's splendid packaging comes as a bonus).

A brand new one by Amandine Beyer should be interesting, judging from her chaconne on another recording.

[mikeweil]

Holloway's playing is interesting, but I don't like his tone.

Huggett is sober, I see your point, but this is what I like in contrast to the conventional steel string players, who try to sweeten their tone with all kinds of romantic means.

[king ubu]

So could someone please tell me what HIP means? Serious question!

@moms: What do you think of Szigeti and Szeryng? Do you know their Bach?

Got Zehetmair in today (he doesn't look too hip to me, but then, what is hip?

Edited July 31, 2012 by king ubu

[Д.Д.]

So could someone please tell me what HIP means? Serious

Historically informed performance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historically_informed_performance

[king ubu]

I see - thanks!

So, how about Emil Telmányi? He WAS "historically informed", or so he believed, at one time (just as some of those playing today think they are).

[Chuck Nessa]

Szigeti is not HIP ...

In my world, nothing is hipper than Szigeti.

20th and 21st Century children working with ancient instruments, or reproductions lose music as they search for technique.

[king ubu]

Szigeti is not HIP ...

In my world, nothing is hipper than Szigeti.

:tup :tup

(Do you know his Beethoven sonatas with Arrau? Bad sound, but the music ... ! Waiting for the Bartók/Szigeti disc right now, I bet it's amazing, too!)

[Chuck Nessa]

Szigeti is not HIP ...

In my world, nothing is hipper than Szigeti.

:tup :tup

(Do you know his Beethoven sonatas with Arrau? Bad sound, but the music ... ! Waiting for the Bartók/Szigeti disc right now, I bet it's amazing, too!)

u are in for a treat.

[MomsMobley]

but there'a a lot more to Bach especially than Szigeti's vibrato... I do appreciate Josef, especially his Busoni, but the R-A-N-G-E (repeat r-a-n-g-e) of potential period practice >>>>>>> the range essentially romantic era violinists brought to Bach. Thus Zehetmair on a modern instrument is superb... while Szigeti only reminds me what a GREAT era of Bach performance we live in and what a long road it was to get here. Too bad Rene Jacobs hasn't recorded either of the Passions though or more cantatas.

same goes for the cellists btw, Starker is just dull, not even larded; Heinrich Schiff, on a modern instrument, whom I forgot to mention in the cello thread, blows him away in every way possible save "iconic."

Szigeti is not HIP ...

In my world, nothing is hipper than Szigeti.

20th and 21st Century children working with ancient instruments, or reproductions lose music as they search for technique.

[mikeweil]

20th and 21st Century children working with ancient instruments, or reproductions lose music as they search for technique.

They're not losing it, just an approach in search for a different one. The music always is more than the notes, it also encompasses the sound, and that is linked to instruments. Cellos or violins in Bach's time sounded different, that's a fact. The introduction of steel strings and higher tension and modern tunings changes the sound a lot.

Like Skip Sempé stated:

"In most fine music written before the 1950s, the sound and the composition were linked by the composer. Some performers do not care about this, and some listeners don't care either, but that was clearly the method behind the tradition in question. Without any doubt, this is the manner in which harpsichord music was conceived."

I appreciate the approach of a lot of these players, but I just can't get around to like their sound.

[J.A.W.]

20th and 21st Century children working with ancient instruments, or reproductions lose music as they search for technique.

They're not losing it, just an approach in search for a different one. The music always is more than the notes, it also encompasses the sound, and that is linked to instruments. Cellos or violins in Bach's time sounded different, that's a fact. The introduction of steel strings and higher tension and modern tunings changes the sound a lot.

Like Skip Sempé stated:

"In most fine music written before the 1950s, the sound and the composition were linked by the composer. Some performers do not care about this, and some listeners don't care either, but that was clearly the method behind the tradition in question. Without any doubt, this is the manner in which harpsichord music was conceived."

I appreciate the approach of a lot of these players, but I just can't get around to like their sound.

"These players" being the non-HIP, what some would call "romantic" performers, I assume, or am I misunderstanding what you're saying? I tend to agree with that, though for me it's not a "black and white" case.

Edited August 1, 2012 by J.A.W.